The trades...what if??

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The trades...what if??

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:03 am

Think about this for a sec...

If Shero didn't make those trades and stood pat with the team he had....where would the Pens be right now? Would they have made it this far? Would they be up in the Boston series? Would they be exactly in the same position they are in right now?

I feel Bylsma needs a ton of blame for his refusal to make adjustments...having said that if your coach has a system that thrives with fast players...and you just made a trade that as whole made the team slower :?: :?: We can go back and forth on how Bylsma has used the additions and I feel he has done the whole organization, fan base, players, etc etc a huge disservice with how he has used the players and his ignorance to adjustments but should some of the blame this go around be shared with Shero?

None of us really know the influence of Mario on Shero. Was he pushing to load the team up with those trades? Possible for sure.

Is Bylsma really that bad with how he has used the additional players of Morrow, Iginla, Murray, Jokinen or have the new players presented a bad overall fit..which then falls on Shero's/Mario's lap.


Can you really say this team is harder to play against with the additional players than the pre trade Penguins?
Last edited by Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby GenoMachino71 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:14 am

This team has made it furthest since the year they won the cup.... so you can make a case these players improved the team from last year

all those "fast players" for Bylsma's system didnt help vs Philly last year....

and no, it doesnt fall on Lemieux's or Shero's lap.... this team was talented enough to win a Stanley Cup.... but it looks like they blew it

plenty of fingers to be pointed around..... but none should be at Shero/Lemieux for bringing in the guys they did
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:39 am

GenoMachino71 wrote: this team WAS talented enough to win a Stanley Cup....


I agree with that 100 percent. They were good enough to win it all with the team they had.

Can you really say this team is harder to play against with the additional players than the pre trade Penguins?
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby GenoMachino71 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:39 am

It's silly to blame the new guys in my opinion.... like I said, this team has gotten further than they have since they won the cup... so clearly "making the team slower" didnt make the team stumble in the playoffs

I loved hearing Rob Rossi say Bylsma didnt ask for these guys who dont fit their system and it made them slower

these guys arent playing on the top line that has produced 1 goal in 11 periods.... Iginla didnt play on the 2nd line last game.... how many points did that "faster line" score?

The new guys arent playing on the top PP that has been shut out this series

Morrow, Murray, and Jokinen have all contributed on the PK, which has been fantastic all playoffs.... I guess theyre not slowing that down too much

its all excuse making and finger pointing at guys who were brought in to be role players and not carry the team.... have they all had a huge impact? No.... I didnt expect them to be stars....

the bottom line is, the stars arent producing like stars.... and its not because of the new guys
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby pcm on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:03 pm

I think the Iginla trade was a curse. It fed the team's "greater than thou" identity. They were almost upset in the first round by a team of youngsters, and now, the first real hockey team they face is 1 win away from sweeping them.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:38 pm

The trades wouldn't have mattered either way. Our defense is terrible and we have no role players worth a darn. Our 3rd line plays good defense but gets zero push. Our 3rd and 4th lines are slow as can be. We can't find anyone to be our 5 and 6 guys and our 4 (Murray) was a pilon last night to the point he played less than 20 mins in an OT game. If it wasn't him our bottom 3 would be Nisky, Engelend and Eaton/Despres. Terrible with way.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby mac5155 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:42 pm

I think if DB knew how to use Iginla he'd actually work out. Instead, he gives him 2nd unit PP time, puts him on his off wing, and plays him with Brandon Sutter.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:43 pm

I think Murray and Morrow replacing essentially Engellend and Glass has been great. Iginla for Bennett though has been a disaster.

But with no trades made we are still in the conference finals but still unprepared for this series.
Last edited by DelPen on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby wondermoose on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:43 pm

Well, I think it was really obvious how much slower this team got in the first round, but I've been thoroughly disappointed with Iginla. Not sure if it is because Bylsma hasn't utilized him correctly, but he's been rather invisible a lot of nights. Maybe missing the playoffs the past 5 years or whatever has taken its toll on Iginla. He sure isn't the playoff warrior he was billed as. I've actually been just fine with Morrow. He's been good defensively in a third-line role, but he isn't the fastest guy for sure.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:58 pm

DelPen wrote:I think Murray and Morrow replacing essentially Engellend and Glass has been great. Iginla for Bennett though has been a disaster.

But with no trades made we are still in the conference finals but still unprepared for this series.


Pretty much that.

I could add Jokinen in place of Sutter is OK with me. Question on Sutter... do we keep him or trade him and keep Jokinen on line 3?
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:03 pm

the biggest "what if" goes all the way back to the staal trade. shero's deadline trades told everyone that we're all-in for this season. with that philosophy, it's arguable that it was worth keeping staal, even though he was definitely leaving at the end of the year. i don't think there's any way we're down 0-3 with a cooke-staal-kennedy 3rd line. and like we were worried about all the way back in january, our scoring depth has become a significant problem.

this series smells just like '09 detroit - except we have no game-breakers to pick up the slack for our stars
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:06 pm

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby MarioLives on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:17 pm

mac5155 wrote:I think if DB knew how to use Iginla he'd actually work out. Instead, he gives him 2nd unit PP time, puts him on his off wing, and plays him with Brandon Sutter.


come on. Iggy has been on the Malkin line virtually the entire playoffs. Last night he was moved off the 2nd line. That just is incorrect to bash Bylsma for playing him with Sutter. The other two points.....well I cant argue that!
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Pitts on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:29 pm

Sarcastic wrote:I could add Jokinen in place of Sutter is OK with me. Question on Sutter... do we keep him or trade him and keep Jokinen on line 3?

Seriously??? Jokinen was and still is waiver trash. Nobody wanted this guy for free. And you want him to replace a young, defensively solid 3rd line center?
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Sarcastic on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:35 pm

Pitts wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:I could add Jokinen in place of Sutter is OK with me. Question on Sutter... do we keep him or trade him and keep Jokinen on line 3?

Seriously??? Jokinen was and still is waiver trash. Nobody wanted this guy for free. And you want him to replace a young, defensively solid 3rd line center?


Yes. I wasn't impressed with Sutter in the playoffs. I like what Jokinen brings better than Sutter. I wouldn't mind examining the 3rd line center position.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby mac5155 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:36 pm

MarioLives wrote:
mac5155 wrote:I think if DB knew how to use Iginla he'd actually work out. Instead, he gives him 2nd unit PP time, puts him on his off wing, and plays him with Brandon Sutter.


come on. Iggy has been on the Malkin line virtually the entire playoffs. Last night he was moved off the 2nd line. That just is incorrect to bash Bylsma for playing him with Sutter. The other two points.....well I cant argue that!


Iginla came here to play with Crosby. I listed the Sutter thing last because it just started last night. Put him on a line with Crosby. I just don't get why he refuses to split up 14-87-9
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:42 pm

playing him with sutter was pointless. it was just bylsma saying "screw it, i'm out of ideas". our 3rd line was 3 guys who skate like they're continually at the end of their shift - one forechecker, one skill player and one guy who doesn't dip his feet outside of his own zone. it was a cluster F of a line, and bylsma deserves whatever venom he gets on that decision.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby MarioLives on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:45 pm

mac5155 wrote:
MarioLives wrote:
mac5155 wrote:I think if DB knew how to use Iginla he'd actually work out. Instead, he gives him 2nd unit PP time, puts him on his off wing, and plays him with Brandon Sutter.


come on. Iggy has been on the Malkin line virtually the entire playoffs. Last night he was moved off the 2nd line. That just is incorrect to bash Bylsma for playing him with Sutter. The other two points.....well I cant argue that!


Iginla came here to play with Crosby. I listed the Sutter thing last because it just started last night. Put him on a line with Crosby. I just don't get why he refuses to split up 14-87-9


agree......
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Eismann on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:32 pm

Iginla and Morrow belonged on the third line from the moment they arrived. I said it then, I stand by it now. Beauner should have stayed with Geno and Neal, perhaps even Cooke up there, then the others fill out a fourth line. That would have kept the top two lines steady and added more threats below with greater chances of rolling the lines consistently.

Instead, there was a barrage of experiments that moved players all over the map and off their best spots, that continues today.

Oh well. Might not have mattered anyway.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:33 pm

scottrade
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:27 pm

mac5155 wrote:Iginla came here to play with Crosby. I listed the Sutter thing last because it just started last night. Put him on a line with Crosby. I just don't get why he refuses to split up 14-87-9


What if Crosby is really the one who has prevented that from happening. What if he is complaining why should he change linemates as they were the most prolific scoring line in the regular season.

I agree 110 percent and Iginla did NOT agree to come here to play a different position and have little to zero time with Crosby.

Bylsma has no spine. I said that many times before he is terrified to say boo to the star players that he will be tuned out....just as Michael Therien was.

But again if that is the fact then he really needs to go if he has let Crosby impact his decision on who is playing where. He certainly can't be that ignorant and dumb to have not played Iginla with Crosby for more than two shifts a game all on his own decision making...can he?? :roll:
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Why Not Us on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:03 pm

Lets say Staal accepts the $60 mil and stays a Penguin. Do we even have room or a desire for Iggy? Does Staal's offensive ability negate Sid & Geno's slumps? Do they even go into slumps, particularly if Malkin is Staal's wing? Obviously Staal and Parise refusing to sign is what brought us to the current trade results debacle. Fascinating stuff.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Scott on Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:30 pm

Why Not Us wrote:Lets say Staal accepts the $60 mil and stays a Penguin. Do we even have room or a desire for Iggy? Does Staal's offensive ability negate Sid & Geno's slumps? Do they even go into slumps, particularly if Malkin is Staal's wing? Obviously Staal and Parise refusing to sign is what brought us to the current trade results debacle. Fascinating stuff.


Interesting spin on it for sure...

but nobody has yet to answer the biggest question with the trades..

Are the June 6th 2013 Penguins tougher to play against than the pre-trade Penguins.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby Take the Body Shoot the Puck on Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:53 am

Scott wrote:
Why Not Us wrote:Lets say Staal accepts the $60 mil and stays a Penguin. Do we even have room or a desire for Iggy? Does Staal's offensive ability negate Sid & Geno's slumps? Do they even go into slumps, particularly if Malkin is Staal's wing? Obviously Staal and Parise refusing to sign is what brought us to the current trade results debacle. Fascinating stuff.


Interesting spin on it for sure...

but nobody has yet to answer the biggest question with the trades..

Are the June 6th 2013 Penguins tougher to play against than the pre-trade Penguins.


I would say no. Morrow has been battling and putting in the effort every game, but just doesn't have it anymore. I expected Iginla to be tougher, but time and time again I see him not finish a check along the boards. They were both decent in the regular season and I expected them to hit beast mode in the playoffs, but instead they've seemed to regress.
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Re: The trades...what if??

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:08 am

morrow's been playing without a center. tough to make an impact when you don't have any support.
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