'13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby the riddler on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:21 am

What stings the most about this loss is the performance in Game 2. If they could've gotten atleast a split in Pittsburgh, this could still be a series. Anything can happen, but it would be a real miracle if they came back against Boston down 3-0. I thought one big positive last night was how solid Vokoun was in the OT. He got beat on a really good goal and made every save he had to make.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby brwi on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:21 am

Henry Hank wrote:
cheesesteakwithegg wrote:Getting Iginla brought the "Hossa / team that gives me the best shot to win" curse to the Pens. Will be glad to see him go, as the Pens haven't been nearly as good as a team since they got him. Obviously, he isn't one the main problem for the Pens struggles, but I think the fans and media have been way to easy on him. He has been a giant disappointment.


I have to disagree completely with this prevailing thought on Iginla. I think it's just that people's expectations were wrong. Iginla is like 35 now. He's well past his peak. He's not a game changer anymore. He's still a good and productive player. He's played at a ~70 point pace since the trade (that's including playoffs) which is about where he's been in recent years. Yes he's come up empty this series but so have Crosby, Malkin, Neal, and Letang.

People expecting 25 year old power forward Iginla in his prime were never going to be satisfied because he's not that player anymore. Then you have another segment that won't stop complaining about the egregious error of him playing the incredibly foreign position of LW and it being such a terrible waste to misuse him like that. The only way I'll say they've misused him is by not using him on the top PP unit. To me that's been idiotic. The one thing it's been missing is a big right-handed shot, they went out and got one, but they've barely used it. Stupid.

I think Iginla could return and I'd welcome it. There's unfinished business with him. At the right price it'd be great if they can keep him. People just need to get their expectations in check. He's more of a complimentary player at this point in his career. He's a better version of Guerin during his time with the Pens.


Iginla would just be taking up space and money for a position that Bennett can do instead, and likely better. At least there is upside with Bennett and there isn't at all with Iggy. Pens don't need more 3rd liners and they sure don't need to pay Ignila what someone else will.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Mango Salsa on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:40 am

For the record, Iginla was a beast in the OT, but mostly invisible otherwise. That move he made to the net where he was upended brought me out of my seat. Vintage Iggy
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Gaucho on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:41 am

brwi wrote:
Gaucho wrote:The Pens already came back from a 3-0 deficit in a series against the Bruins this year, so who knows.


Uh, that wasn't the playoffs. Not trying to be too cynical here, but the regular season means a whole lot of nothing right now. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that the Pens take 4 games in a row, but it's very, very unlikely, and this comes from someone who watched the Isles' kill us in 74-75 after a 3-0 lead.


I was referring to the WBS-Providence series. :wink:
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Lt. Dish on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:51 am

shmenguin wrote:
panthers1788 wrote:Pens can look to the east at their most hated rivals to get out of this hole...Bruins were up 3-0 in the Eastern Conference Finals in 2010 and didn't make it to the cup finals. We are exactly the same place that these fans were after a game 3 loss.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=772384&page=20


without looking at the box scores, i'll go ahead and guarantee that the flyers were scoring more than 2 goals per 11 periods.


Yes. I remember the series pretty well, actually, since every game was on here at the house. I watched it closely, enthralled with the unfolding Flyers demise.

In games 1 and 2, the Flyers were really beaten up and rusty as hell after sitting for a week. They hung in with the Bruins in games 1 and 2, but mostly were playing catch-up. Boston was clearly the superior team. Everything the Flyers did well, the Bruins had an answer for it. Yeah, the Flyers were scoring, but the Bruins were responding with quick, deflating goals. The Flyers' goaltender was Brian Boucher, so there you go.

In game 3, the Flyers really looked like they had packed it in and were waving the white flag. It was over. There was absolutely no reason to believe otherwise. Again, the Bruins had an answer for everything the Flyers were trying (but failing) to throw at them. It looked like they wanted to give Mark Recchi one more hurrah before they "pr(ied) the stick from his cold, dead hands."

Simon Gagne was duct-taped together in a weak attempt to salvage some pride in game 4. The Flyers made a decent effort but p***** away the game. Recchi scored a total back breaker just before the regulation buzzer. Gagne managed to win it in OT.

The freakin' jagoff Flyers ended up winning 4 straight in front of Michael Leighton, who was pressed into service when Boucher got hurt. They game back from a 3-goals-to-none deficit in game 7 at Boston (the infamous Laviolette Timeout Game).

Make no mistake: That Bruins team was good. The Flyers team was nothing special. If those Flyers could do it, then our guys can.


So, I'm still brokenhearted and disappointed, but I'll still be pleading with the hockey gods, hoping, clenching Friday night.

Let's go, Pens. Dammit. IT CANNOT END LIKE THIS.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby pcm on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:53 am

Honestly, I still believe the Pens can win. They were getting really close to breaking through on Rask. I can totally see a scenario where they open the floodgates on him, and don't look back, just as they did with Anderson in Game 3. It's highly unlikely to get the bounces for 4 games, but if any team can do it, this one can.

All that said, the game of inches or luck or whatever people are calling it that makes this 3-0 Boston instead of 2-1 in either direction, to me, Blysma's mismanagement of the roster makes all the difference in the world. Why the hell doesn't he change up the lines in game 1 3rd period? 85% of the time, making a change like that produces a spark. It's what the team needed.

Last night, the lines were a mess. The players still played with that spark, but I just don't understand how Bthe coach continues to avoid some really obvious combos. Like Morrow in the bottom 6, when the team is struggling to get traffic in front of Rask? Like Bennett playing at all, when he continues to create offensive chances out there? Like keeping 14-87-9 together, when they've been the worst line on the ice for 3 games?

Anyways, its frustrating to watch this team fail to get the results that seem totally within reach. Hopefully, Friday, they can play without that sense of entitlement that has weighed them down. Who knows what they're capable of then?
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby iWonTheCup87 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:56 am

i just dont understand how a team this talents could get swept i really dont. The season cannot possibly end this way can it?
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Lt. Dish on Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:57 am

Gaucho wrote:
brwi wrote:
Gaucho wrote:The Pens already came back from a 3-0 deficit in a series against the Bruins this year, so who knows.


Uh, that wasn't the playoffs. Not trying to be too cynical here, but the regular season means a whole lot of nothing right now. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that the Pens take 4 games in a row, but it's very, very unlikely, and this comes from someone who watched the Isles' kill us in 74-75 after a 3-0 lead.


I was referring to the WBS-Providence series. :wink:


Holy crap, would that not be something? The big club and the farm club both blowing it?

If the Pens were to gut out games 4 and 5, you had better believe worry would creep in.

Big Pens can pick Zatkoff's brain as to how they were mentally strong enough to do it.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Cu11en on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:13 pm

My thoughts are that the Pens need to shoot from the sides and get in position to expect 10' rebounds off Rask and/or a Bruins' stick. Boston has any middle approach completely clogged.

Oh, and agree with everyone that Beau Bennette is awesome.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:34 pm

I guess the Pens just need the Bruins' all time team to suffer some injuries and call up Chara, Seidenberg, and someone else.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Pitts on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:37 pm

Henry Hank wrote:I have to disagree completely with this prevailing thought on Iginla. I think it's just that people's expectations were wrong. Iginla is like 35 now. He's well past his peak. He's not a game changer anymore. He's still a good and productive player. He's played at a ~70 point pace since the trade (that's including playoffs) which is about where he's been in recent years. Yes he's come up empty this series but so have Crosby, Malkin, Neal, and Letang.

People expecting 25 year old power forward Iginla in his prime were never going to be satisfied because he's not that player anymore. Then you have another segment that won't stop complaining about the egregious error of him playing the incredibly foreign position of LW and it being such a terrible waste to misuse him like that. The only way I'll say they've misused him is by not using him on the top PP unit. To me that's been idiotic. The one thing it's been missing is a big right-handed shot, they went out and got one, but they've barely used it. Stupid.

I think Iginla could return and I'd welcome it. There's unfinished business with him. At the right price it'd be great if they can keep him. People just need to get their expectations in check. He's more of a complimentary player at this point in his career. He's a better version of Guerin during his time with the Pens.

Very much in agreement on Iginla.

Conversely, everyone seems to be praising Morrow for his play. I love that he goes to the net and bangs the corners all game long, but that guy can no longer receive a pass or get a shot off. it's mind-blowing how many times he loses the puck each game. Am I the only one seeing that?

Keep Iginla and Murray, let Morrow walk.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby sniper on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:46 pm

Pens deserved to win that one in regulation. They also deserved to be winning Game 1 3-0 after the first period. Obviously neither happened. They aren't getting any bounces at all and everything Krejci touches takes a good bounce for him.

-That said I really believe the Pens can win the next 4 games, but they absolutely must get their Power Play going. It's got to score. It's the reason they lost this game. There isn't a reason on earth that any team with one less guy on the ice should be able to consistently stop the 5 guys the Pens can put on the ice from scoring. There simply isn't.

-Eventually the bounces will start going there way. It's clear Boston has gotten all of them so far. They will eventually even out.

-Kennedy needs to be in the lineup. I said before the game I'd of played him over Iginla. That said I thought last night was Iginlas best game in a Penguin uniform. He actually looked like he cared. He actually hit someone hard!! I was shocked! I still think Kennedy is the better 5 on 5 player. If you are dressing Iginla he has to be playing on the top power play. I didn't think he looked as awful as normal on the third line.

-Kunitz, Dupuis, Crosby....what are they doing? Capable of so much more.

-I'd put Bennett with Malkin and Neal unless you put Kunitz there.

-I actually think I'd consider putting Dupuis with Crosby and Kennedy. He has a history of scoring against Boston (that alone is a reason I'd of never taken him out of the lineup). I also think his speed and board work would open up some more room and back off the Bruins D.

9-87-48
14-71-18
24-16-19
10-27-46

I'd also put Despres in for Engelland.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby skullman80 on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:47 pm

I don't see the need to keep Iginla. I wasn't expecting 2005 Iggy, but I have not been impressed with his compete level during most of the playoffs. He seems to be skating in sand, and just looks old out there. Can't seem to keep up with his linemates.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Henry Hank on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:50 pm

I'd be willing to bring back Morrow at the right price as well, honestly. Again, it's about expectations. He'd be more of a 3rd/4th liner grinder which he can still be effective at. He'd have to take a pretty big pay cut, though.

Personally, my plan would be fire Bylsma, trade/buyout Fleury, trade Letang and get a young goalie back in the deal (not sure if there's a good match out there for that), decline to give Kennedy a qualifying offer, trade Jokinen for peanuts. Use the opened up cap space to keep as many of Iginla, Dupuis, Morrow, Cooke, and Murray as possible. I'd welcome Adams back as well but I know I'm in the minority there. They have a good roster, a great one really. They need to move away from Bylsma's hockey and play a more patient, calculated game.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby MarioLives on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:53 pm

If you were going to compare Jagr and Iggy in this series, Jagr has been head a shoulders better than Jerome. I noticed Jagr all night possessing the puck and winning battles. All I noticed with Iggy was slow skating and the inability to control the puck.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby cheesesteakwithegg on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:55 pm

Can someone in the Iginla camp please explain to me what he has he contributed to this team where it warrants a contract being offered to him?

The only thing has has left is his shot. He isn't fast. He doesn't forcheck well. He doesn't win the battles along the boards. He doesn't make plays. He doesnt create space. He doesn't kill penalties. I see no point in bringing back a third liner (which is where his skill level is now) that can't do the things that you need a third liner to do on a cup contender.

Sure, Id take him back for $1 maybe $2 million per year, but he is going to get way more than that somewhere else.

Someone compared the Iginla move to the Geurin move. Iggy may be more talented than Geurin when he got here, but Geurin was way more effective during the 09 cup run than Iggy has been this year.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Pitts on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:58 pm

MarioLives wrote:If you were going to compare Jagr and Iggy in this series, Jagr has been head a shoulders better than Jerome. I noticed Jagr all night possessing the puck and winning battles. All I noticed with Iggy was slow skating and the inability to control the puck.

Why do people keep making the Jagr/iginla comparison? I don't get it.

#1. Jagr has ALWAYS been better than Iginla. His numerous NHL awards and Cups prove it.

#2. Jagr would never have been traded here in place of Iginla.

So, what is to compare? Give it a rest already.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby brwi on Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:59 pm

MarioLives wrote:If you were going to compare Jagr and Iggy in this series, Jagr has been head a shoulders better than Jerome. I noticed Jagr all night possessing the puck and winning battles. All I noticed with Iggy was slow skating and the inability to control the puck.


Yep. As bad as Jagr looked earlier in the playoffs, he's bringing it now vs. the Pens. Iggy? Ehhhhh...not so much. Soooooo slow.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Orlando Penguin on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:00 pm

(without reading any other posts in the thread)

--Once again, another game where the Penguins can't get any bounces and they can't cash in on their opportunities. I propose a new Penguins drinking game -- the Pens hit the post, do a shot...if it hits the post and goes in -- SOCIAL. I didn't see any of Game 2 (and I'm glad I didn't) but I am flabbergasted at the bad luck they've had in this series. It's like a herd of feral black cats were running around their neighborhoods during the 8-day break. I mean, Crosby's no-look shot in the 2nd OT that hit the post just ended it for me.

--I was happy that after my all-caps rant in the GDT during the 1st intermission that the Pens came out and started throwing pucks at the net rather than getting cute with it. Good things often happen when the puck gets thrown at the net and sadly, no one was there to cash in a rebound.

--All that being said, Rask played a terrific game. Yes, he's been fortunate that the iron has been his friend but he hasn't been caught out of position once in this series.

--I've been totally disappointed by Iginla. I don't wanna hear any crap from the 'fire Bylsma' camp saying he's in the wrong position. The guy's been in the league for a decade and he desperately wanted a Cup (so much so that he came to Pittsburgh instead of Boston) and he's invisible. For a guy who was a long-time captain of his team, I don't see any leadership qualities out of him. At least Morrow is throwing himself into plays and players and getting into scrums.

--Another guy who hasn't done anything for me has been Sutter. With the exception of faceoffs, he's been useless in pretty much this whole playoff season. Every time he gets the puck, I wait for it to jump off his stick or for him to plain lose it.

--As much as I like having an offensive-minded defenseman, I can't trust Letang when he keeps making irresponsible plays like the one he made that led to the breakaway in the 1st OT (and how they didn't call him for a penalty was a large surprise...I've seen a lot less whistled down). And for someone who is so offensive-minded, that play on the PP in the 1st period where he passes it instead of taking the open shot from between the circles was just plain dumb. I bet we could get a lot from a Western Conference team for him.

--The one good thing about being down 0-3 is that a comeback is so unexpected that I can now emotionally detach myself from the games (at least until Game 7). At least then, I won't have to clean up a quarter gallon of sweet tea off my kitchen floor after spiking the bottle last night (I know, real mature).
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby Henry Hank on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:04 pm

And yet before this series Jagr had barely done anything in the playoffs. In fact before game two I saw some of the media types talking about him possibly being a healthy scratch. Iginla was barely below a point per game in the first two rounds. Maybe Jagr's found an extra gear this round that Iginla doesn't have, I think it also helps that Jagr is simply on an arguably better team that clearly has a better game plan. It's funny how much of a better perception people have about players when their team is winning. Just like how someone claimed that Guerin was much more effective in the Cup run than Iginla is now. A year later, Guerin was suddenly an over the hill piece of crap as the team struggled, even though his point production was actually improved.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:05 pm

cheesesteakwithegg wrote:Getting Iginla brought the "Hossa / team that gives me the best shot to win" curse to the Pens. Will be glad to see him go, as the Pens haven't been nearly as good as a team since they got him. Obviously, he isn't one the main problem for the Pens struggles, but I think the fans and media have been way to easy on him. He has been a giant disappointment.


That is the dumbest thing I've heard today.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby cheesesteakwithegg on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:08 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
cheesesteakwithegg wrote:Getting Iginla brought the "Hossa / team that gives me the best shot to win" curse to the Pens. Will be glad to see him go, as the Pens haven't been nearly as good as a team since they got him. Obviously, he isn't one the main problem for the Pens struggles, but I think the fans and media have been way to easy on him. He has been a giant disappointment.


That is the dumbest thing I've heard today.


How so? Iggy hasn't been a disappointment? The Pens gave up some decent assets for him, and he has given them barely anything in return.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby MarioLives on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:11 pm

Pitts wrote:
MarioLives wrote:If you were going to compare Jagr and Iggy in this series, Jagr has been head a shoulders better than Jerome. I noticed Jagr all night possessing the puck and winning battles. All I noticed with Iggy was slow skating and the inability to control the puck.

Why do people keep making the Jagr/iginla comparison? I don't get it.

#1. Jagr has ALWAYS been better than Iginla. His numerous NHL awards and Cups prove it.

#2. Jagr would never have been traded here in place of Iginla.

So, what is to compare? Give it a rest already.


I am not comparing the two....if you read the thread, multiple people are. I agree with you that it was not like it was an option and the Pens chose Iginla. Jagr was never an option. I am sure he is playing better because it is against his former team and he has extra motivation.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:13 pm

cheesesteakwithegg wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
cheesesteakwithegg wrote:Getting Iginla brought the "Hossa / team that gives me the best shot to win" curse to the Pens. Will be glad to see him go, as the Pens haven't been nearly as good as a team since they got him. Obviously, he isn't one the main problem for the Pens struggles, but I think the fans and media have been way to easy on him. He has been a giant disappointment.


That is the dumbest thing I've heard today.


How so? Iggy hasn't been a disappointment? The Pens gave up some decent assets for him, and he has given them barely anything in return.


I was referring to the "Hossa curse". I'd consider it a curse if Hossa didn't win a Cup in Chicago. This guy is constantly dominant in the playoffs.
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Re: '13 Playoffs Game 3 vs Bos - Thoughts from the Morning A

Postby cheesesteakwithegg on Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:14 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
cheesesteakwithegg wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
cheesesteakwithegg wrote:Getting Iginla brought the "Hossa / team that gives me the best shot to win" curse to the Pens. Will be glad to see him go, as the Pens haven't been nearly as good as a team since they got him. Obviously, he isn't one the main problem for the Pens struggles, but I think the fans and media have been way to easy on him. He has been a giant disappointment.


That is the dumbest thing I've heard today.


How so? Iggy hasn't been a disappointment? The Pens gave up some decent assets for him, and he has given them barely anything in return.


I was referring to the "Hossa curse". I'd consider it a curse if Hossa didn't win a Cup in Chicago. This guy is constantly dominant in the playoffs.


That was actually said tongue in cheek
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