bye-bye Dan Bylsma

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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:41 pm

Gaucho wrote:Dejan Kovacevic ‏@Dejan_Kovacevic 19m
Bylsma: Bennett will be a top-six forward, Despres a top-four defenseman next season. #TribHKY


I guess Bylsma already knows that he won't be the coach if he's saying that.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:43 pm

So we had a top 4 defenseman in the press box and we decided to dress Engelland and Niskanen instead. Sounds smart.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Gaucho on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:51 pm

Sigh.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby GDR on Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:00 pm

entitlement and arrogance permeates this organization. Crosby talking about "not getting shut down," Dan's comments...something needs to change in the organization.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby KBone on Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:13 pm

GDR wrote:entitlement and arrogance permeates this organization. Crosby talking about "not getting shut down," Dan's comments...something needs to change in the organization.


Torts was right. :scared:
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Scott on Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:31 pm

Lt. Dish wrote:This might seem like a cockamamie (a woefully underused term, btw) post, but I'll throw it out there anyway, because I love learning from the more strategic minds here. If this was floated earlier, then I'm sorry I missed it.

Questions for you guys:

1. If the HC of the big club changes, how does that typically affect the farm? WBS uses the same system as the big club, right? So, assuming that RS wants to move toward D-first or a MT+DB hybrid type of system, would Hynes be challenged to evolve, also, or will he be permitted to maintain the status quo in WBS?

2. How might RS factor in next year's realignment and competitive landscape into his decision making?

3. Does anyone else think that changing the HC is a sign that RS wants to save Fleury in the course of improving playoffs success?


I think Fleury is given another chance, because he's proven (a) that he'll get you to the playoffs and (b) he thrived in the playoffs in D-first and hybrid (think MT+DB) systems. His talent, young age, and athleticism are still there. His positive disposition and competitiveness are still there. Add all this together, and you still have a huge foundation on which to rebuild the mental aspect of his game.

It is possible that Fleury's meltdowns were precipitated by the stubborn adherence to firewagon strategy in the playoffs? Is it possible that our own system got into Fleury's head and messed him up? After all, if you feel that you're not in a good situation to succeed, then you doubt yourself, worry that you'll be let out to dry, or you try to overcompensate. Anyway, chances are you don't succeed. As for Vokoun, he was accustomed to seeing 40 shots per night and being left out to dry on some poor defensive teams.

Thanks for your time, folks.


My thoughts on your thoughts,

The system...his system is not....let me say this.... His system is more about 60 mins of high energy and effort than about a certain way of doing things. Don't get me wrong he wants a break out done a certain way and a fore check a certain way, but in the end his is about 100 mph all the time every time.

The impact on the farm will be nothingness to zero.

I don't think Shero will change anything because the Red Wings moved into the east..

I do believe that if bylsma goes there is a chance that fluery stays. IMO regardless if Bylsma goes Fleury will still be a Penguin. The buying out/releasing situation is not just as simple as some people are making it out to be. To my understanding you can't just buy out player "a" and there be zero ramification for that. Not saying the punishment wouldn't be worth it so to speak, but in a salary cap day every penny counts.

First thing is first though, what are the Pens going to do about the coaching situation. Keep him, fire him, etc etc..that needs addressed first and foremost then the off season can begin so to speak for shero.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby bhaw on Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:35 pm

I'm pretty sure teams have amnesty buyouts to aid in getting them below that cap. These buyouts have no cap punishments. I still don't see why they would buy out MAF, but the only consequence is that he's a UFA and could easily end up on a team like Philly.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Lt. Dish on Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:46 pm

Scott wrote:
Lt. Dish wrote:This might seem like a cockamamie (a woefully underused term, btw) post, but I'll throw it out there anyway, because I love learning from the more strategic minds here. If this was floated earlier, then I'm sorry I missed it.

Questions for you guys:

1. If the HC of the big club changes, how does that typically affect the farm? WBS uses the same system as the big club, right? So, assuming that RS wants to move toward D-first or a MT+DB hybrid type of system, would Hynes be challenged to evolve, also, or will he be permitted to maintain the status quo in WBS?

2. How might RS factor in next year's realignment and competitive landscape into his decision making?

3. Does anyone else think that changing the HC is a sign that RS wants to save Fleury in the course of improving playoffs success?


I think Fleury is given another chance, because he's proven (a) that he'll get you to the playoffs and (b) he thrived in the playoffs in D-first and hybrid (think MT+DB) systems. His talent, young age, and athleticism are still there. His positive disposition and competitiveness are still there. Add all this together, and you still have a huge foundation on which to rebuild the mental aspect of his game.

It is possible that Fleury's meltdowns were precipitated by the stubborn adherence to firewagon strategy in the playoffs? Is it possible that our own system got into Fleury's head and messed him up? After all, if you feel that you're not in a good situation to succeed, then you doubt yourself, worry that you'll be let out to dry, or you try to overcompensate. Anyway, chances are you don't succeed. As for Vokoun, he was accustomed to seeing 40 shots per night and being left out to dry on some poor defensive teams.

Thanks for your time, folks.


My thoughts on your thoughts,

The system...his system is not....let me say this.... His system is more about 60 mins of high energy and effort than about a certain way of doing things. Don't get me wrong he wants a break out done a certain way and a fore check a certain way, but in the end his is about 100 mph all the time every time.

The impact on the farm will be nothingness to zero.

I don't think Shero will change anything because the Red Wings moved into the east..

I do believe that if bylsma goes there is a chance that fluery stays. IMO regardless if Bylsma goes Fleury will still be a Penguin. The buying out/releasing situation is not just as simple as some people are making it out to be. To my understanding you can't just buy out player "a" and there be zero ramification for that. Not saying the punishment wouldn't be worth it so to speak, but in a salary cap day every penny counts.

First thing is first though, what are the Pens going to do about the coaching situation. Keep him, fire him, etc etc..that needs addressed first and foremost then the off season can begin so to speak for shero.


Thank you, Scott! I appreciate your thoughts on my thoughts.

(Incidentally, it seems to me that the buyout process is complex and why I think the Flyers keep Bryzmonaut.)
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Beveridge on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:30 pm

Once again.......

there are ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NO ramifications for compliance buyouts.

Each team gets 2 they can use. They can use 0, 1 or 2 of them this summer or next summer. They have until the conclusion of the cup finals until June 30 to declare them.

Players get a portion of the salary being bought out (depends on age) but NONE of it is counted against the cap. The only catch is the team buying out that player can't require that player for a full year.

Pens on June 27, 2013 could buy out Fleury and Martin and have 10 million to play with next year and not have a cent of it count against the cap if they so pleased.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:32 pm

You can under the new CBA buy a player out for zero cap ramification for this and the 2014 off season. It isn't that complex. They will pay the player 2/3 of his salary without it counting towards the cap. The only ramification is the team doing the buying out cannot turn around and resign the bought out player again for one calender year. Player becomes an unrestricted free agent for any of the other 29 teams to sign.

edit Bev beat me to it.
Last edited by Fire0nice228 on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Fire0nice228 on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:36 pm

The other thing I disagree with Scott on is the farm system. The Pens are smart..they have the farm team coaches on board and the farm team plays almost exactly the same system as the big club. The team drafts players to fit into the organizational system. This was all the rage in Bylsmas first full training camp and even now you can hear/read comments from call ups about the easy transition from small club to big club.

SO, if the Pens get a new NHL head coach, you can bet your ass that the system in the minors will be changed to match, or atleast be close. Additionally, if a new coach comes in wanting a whole new style of play, drafting and everything will be affected. Typically a GM is going to hire a HC that is pretty much on the same page with the "type" of game they want to play, so if the GM wants big tough physical forwards, he's not going to hire the coach that wants to get a buncha Euros to play 1980s Russia hockey.

Changing the HC on the big club has a big trickle down effect, the same as changing the GM would have a big trickle down.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby TPW on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:52 pm

Beveridge wrote:Once again.......

there are ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NO ramifications for compliance buyouts.

Each team gets 2 they can use. They can use 0, 1 or 2 of them this summer or next summer. They have until the conclusion of the cup finals until June 30 to declare them.

Players get a portion of the salary being bought out (depends on age) but NONE of it is counted against the cap. The only catch is the team buying out that player can't require that player for a full year.

Pens on June 27, 2013 could buy out Fleury and Martin and have 10 million to play with next year and not have a cent of it count against the cap if they so pleased.


But they aren't going to buy out Martin. Shero asked if he wanted to be traded before this season, and he said no. If the team was to turn around and buy him out after the season he had, nobody would sign here.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Beveridge on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:56 pm

I was using names as an example.....
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Lt. Dish on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:57 pm

Beveridge wrote:Once again.......

there are ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NO ramifications for compliance buyouts.

Each team gets 2 they can use. They can use 0, 1 or 2 of them this summer or next summer. They have until the conclusion of the cup finals until June 30 to declare them.

Players get a portion of the salary being bought out (depends on age) but NONE of it is counted against the cap. The only catch is the team buying out that player can't require that player for a full year.

Pens on June 27, 2013 could buy out Fleury and Martin and have 10 million to play with next year and not have a cent of it count against the cap if they so pleased.


Ah. Thank you, Bev. I appreciate it.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Lt. Dish on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:58 pm

Fire0nice228 wrote:The other thing I disagree with Scott on is the farm system. The Pens are smart..they have the farm team coaches on board and the farm team plays almost exactly the same system as the big club. The team drafts players to fit into the organizational system. This was all the rage in Bylsmas first full training camp and even now you can hear/read comments from call ups about the easy transition from small club to big club.

SO, if the Pens get a new NHL head coach, you can bet your ass that the system in the minors will be changed to match, or atleast be close. Additionally, if a new coach comes in wanting a whole new style of play, drafting and everything will be affected. Typically a GM is going to hire a HC that is pretty much on the same page with the "type" of game they want to play, so if the GM wants big tough physical forwards, he's not going to hire the coach that wants to get a buncha Euros to play 1980s Russia hockey.

Changing the HC on the big club has a big trickle down effect, the same as changing the GM would have a big trickle down.


Thank you, also, F0i! I enjoy this discussion.
Last edited by Lt. Dish on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby TPW on Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:59 pm

Beveridge wrote:I was using names as an example.....


Oh, my mistake :thumb: I have heard several people that think Martin will be bought out, and it's not feasible.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Beveridge on Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:03 pm

I don't think Pens will buy anyone out this summer (The 1.1 from glass would be nice but I don't think is a need or JJ if they really wanted too).

Next summer once Letang and Malkin new contracts (if they get new ones) kick in, then we can talk.

Shero has smartly set up contract lengths so only Sid, Neal, Martin, and Flower go beyond next season (as it stands today). Which is why those 4 names are the only ones that would even make sense for buyouts moving forward.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby profpolisci on Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:49 pm

So, Bennett is top six should the Bylsma regime continue. Crosby, Neal and Malkin will be back. One assumes that Dan knows at least one of Iginla, Kunitz and Dupuis will not return?
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby profpolisci on Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:00 pm

And how does Despres go from healthy scratch to "top four" unless one of Letang, Orpik, Martin or Niskanen is gone? Should the team retain all four is it possible they now value Despres more than Niskanen despite the latter playing while the former was scratched? Or is this just part and parcel of Despres -for want of better words- 'developmental curve'?
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Malkamaniac on Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:24 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Dejan Kovacevic ‏@Dejan_Kovacevic 19m
Bylsma: Bennett will be a top-six forward, Despres a top-four defenseman next season. #TribHKY


I guess Bylsma already knows that he won't be the coach if he's saying that.


His vote of confidence comes Wednesday at Shero's presser.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Gaucho on Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:25 pm

profpolisci wrote:Or is this just part and parcel of Despres -for want of better words- 'developmental curve'?


I would think so.

What makes you think Kunitz might not be back?
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby columbia on Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:26 pm

I would sign whomever agrees to a $3M deal. I'd prefer Dupuis, but I'd certainly be happy with Iginla.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:37 pm

Place: Penguins offices Monday Morning

Ray Shero: So, what exactly do you do here?
Dan Bylsma: Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn players so the fans don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Malkamaniac on Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:37 pm

columbia wrote:I would sign whomever agrees to a $3M deal. I'd prefer Dupuis, but I'd certainly be happy with Iginla.


If people are still paying Gonchar 10 million for 2 years, I just have to believe that Iginla gets more based on who he is what he's done. 2 different positions, sure.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby columbia on Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:40 pm

Thank God the lockout had nothing to do with owners handing out stupid contracts. :pop:
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