bye-bye Dan Bylsma

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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:05 am

And the Pens out played the Bruins for 3 of the 4 games in my opinion. So that I don't think that he was at fault in the Bruins series. The Islanders series I thought was even at worst. And the Ottawa series the Pens (including Bylsma's coaching) outclassed the Senators.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby SoCalPenguin on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:06 am

If you truly thought the Islanders series was even AT WORST..then there is obviously nothing to discuss.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby JiriSlegr on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:07 am

Bylsma's decision to go to Vokoun was forced by the continual poor play of Fleury. It was a good move, and one that forced the team to screw their heads on straight and play a stronger team game. In that regard Bylsma did well.

But what did Bylsma do the second the season ended? He threw the goalie that most likely saved his job under the bus, saying that Fleury is our franchise goalie going forward and that Vokoun will not have the opportunity to play for this team because Fleury is the man handed that role upon a silver platter.

Maybe the word from management was to pump Fleury's tires in case of a possible trade. Maybe Bylsma truly believes that Fleury is the goalie that gives this best chance to win. But why would he nullify the play of a goalie that brought this team together and made them play with some semblance of a winning identity? He could have said that his goalies would battle for the starting role, something that seems more than likely given Fleury's mental state.

I guess Fleury needed the boost and Vokoun is an aging veteran. But to a fan, it seems like poor decision making.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:08 am

lol if anyone thought the Pens outplayed the Bruins in any of the 4 games then they're nuts
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby farnham16 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:10 am

The Islanders series was certainly not even. Go back and watch if you can. Isles were much better in games 2, 3, 4, and 6. Much better.

And I think the only game the Pens outplayed Boston was Game 3. They deserved to win that game. Game 1, they had a better first than Boston but after that Boston lulled them to sleep. Boston embarrassed the Pens in game 2 and that was that. Game 4 was pretty even.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:17 am

If the team won 4 games, then yea it was even IMO. The Islanders were strong in spurts but could not sustain which is why they lost the series. So yea, at worst the series break even over the 6 games since the Pens absolutely dominated 2 games and over the course of the other four games the Pens had at least 3 periods of dominance. So yea, it was at worst even.

Game 3 and 4 I thought the Pens were better than Boston. And I had game 1 through 2 periods as being a slight edge to the Pens. The only reason I went with 3 games of 4 is because I really didn't feel like doing fractions. The Pens and Boston was overall an even series that Boston was able to win games they easily could have also lost. In my opinion the Pens had an opportunity to win 3 of 4 games.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Daniel87 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:17 am

Rylan wrote:And the Pens out played the Bruins for 3 of the 4 games in my opinion. So that I don't think that he was at fault in the Bruins series. The Islanders series I thought was even at worst. And the Ottawa series the Pens (including Bylsma's coaching) outclassed the Senators.

Bylsma has a system that has been figured out and he will not deviate from it. There's no way around it. With the talent on this team the Pens will be able to win many regular season games and games against inferior clubs. However, they cannot survive 4 playoff rounds under Dan's system. This organization is built to win Stanley Cups, not to beat 7 and 8 seeds. They have had the talent and desire to win a cup since 2009, and haven't gotten more than half way there.

When a team as talented as this one tries their hardest and manages just two goals in a series, they've been outcoached. Byslma used the wrong approach against Boston and has proven to have the inability to change his approach.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:21 am

All coaches have a system that they don't deviate from. That is a joke argument. Do you think Torts changes his system? Or Ruff? Or Babcock? Or any other bloody coach? If you honestly think that that is a reason to fire Bylsma you are going to be sorely disappointed in life. Fire Bylsma for other reasons, but because he doesn't change his system is a silly one.

And he did in fact change things by tightening up the teams play in the Boston series. The team played a better defensive game which was an adjustment that everyone clamored for. The Pens had opportunities to finish, just because they didn't doesn't make it Bylsma's fault. Goodness me.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:23 am

Ok, so other then if he commits homicide, what do you fire Byslma for?
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:25 am

I like Bylsma and think he is the right coach for the team so that is honestly a tough question for me to answer.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Daniel87 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:27 am

Rylan wrote:All coaches have a system that they don't deviate from. That is a joke argument. Do you think Torts changes his system? Or Ruff? Or Babcock? Or any other bloody coach? If you honestly think that that is a reason to fire Bylsma you are going to be sorely disappointed in life. Fire Bylsma for other reasons, but because he doesn't change his system is a silly one.

And he did in fact change things by tightening up the teams play in the Boston series. The team played a better defensive game which was an adjustment that everyone clamored for. The Pens had opportunities to finish, just because they didn't doesn't make it Bylsma's fault. Goodness me.

Silly me to suggest that the Pens should change a system that doesn't work. You're right, life is just meaningless now.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby farnham16 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:29 am

Bylsma came out before the Boston series and stated he wasn't going to match lines. He was going to just play his system. Bold strategy. We all saw the results. Completely the wrong approach.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:29 am

Really guys I am not here to just rustle jimmies. I really do think Bylsma is the right guy for the job RIGHT NOW. That can change, and I am not entirely sure when or why that will be. But he has had one of the most consistent hockey teams in his tenure. This season they were a disciplined hockey team. They fixed the PK in the playoffs, had one of the most effective PPs until the Boston series, and were generally a balanced hockey team. Cup or bust with this team sure, but I don't place all the blame on Bylsma. There was plenty to be shared by all but a few players.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:29 am

No disrespect towards to but with that mindset, and if Shero is along the same lines then just sign Byslma for life, I'm not exaggerating. If Shero is that buddy buddy with Byslma and afraid of change them just sign Byslma forever. There is always an outlet for Byslma, it was the players, it was injuries, it was bad luck etc... never have I seen a coach in any sport get this type of treatment.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:30 am

Daniel87 wrote:
Rylan wrote:All coaches have a system that they don't deviate from. That is a joke argument. Do you think Torts changes his system? Or Ruff? Or Babcock? Or any other bloody coach? If you honestly think that that is a reason to fire Bylsma you are going to be sorely disappointed in life. Fire Bylsma for other reasons, but because he doesn't change his system is a silly one.

And he did in fact change things by tightening up the teams play in the Boston series. The team played a better defensive game which was an adjustment that everyone clamored for. The Pens had opportunities to finish, just because they didn't doesn't make it Bylsma's fault. Goodness me.

Silly me to suggest that the Pens should change a system that doesn't work. You're right, life is just meaningless now.


Silly you to think that a coach is going to change a strategy that has been effective all season for one team. That is silly. No coach ever does that. You will be firing coaches every season if that is your expectation.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby farnham16 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:34 am

That's the problem. Bylsma thinks just because his system works in the regular season that it will work in the playoffs. Well, that ain't the case. And I've got four examples for anyone that claims otherwise. If Bylsma or the Penguins aren't willing to change, they will never again have playoff success.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:35 am

farnham16 wrote:Bylsma came out before the Boston series and stated he wasn't going to match lines. He was going to just play his system. Bold strategy. We all saw the results. Completely the wrong approach.


This team is built that it has a lot of talent on its lines that matching lines could lead to outthinking yourself really. Rolling your lines is a strategy that I think works more often than not. They got beat, but I don't think it was necessarily wrong either.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:37 am

farnham16 wrote:That's the problem. Bylsma thinks just because his system works in the regular season that it will work in the playoffs. Well, that ain't the case. And I've got four examples for anyone that claims otherwise. If Bylsma or the Penguins aren't willing to change, they will never again have playoff success.


He actually trapped against the Tampa Bay Lightning. So I guess you have 3 examples and I have 1 counter example showing him changing how he usually runs his team to give it the best opportunity to win.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Daniel87 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:41 am

Rylan wrote:
Daniel87 wrote:
Rylan wrote:All coaches have a system that they don't deviate from. That is a joke argument. Do you think Torts changes his system? Or Ruff? Or Babcock? Or any other bloody coach? If you honestly think that that is a reason to fire Bylsma you are going to be sorely disappointed in life. Fire Bylsma for other reasons, but because he doesn't change his system is a silly one.

And he did in fact change things by tightening up the teams play in the Boston series. The team played a better defensive game which was an adjustment that everyone clamored for. The Pens had opportunities to finish, just because they didn't doesn't make it Bylsma's fault. Goodness me.

Silly me to suggest that the Pens should change a system that doesn't work. You're right, life is just meaningless now.


Silly you to think that a coach is going to change a strategy that has been effective all season for one team. That is silly. No coach ever does that. You will be firing coaches every season if that is your expectation.

I never said that he should have thrown the system out the window mid-series. I'm saying he has no back-up plan and makes stubborn decisions. If he returns next year it will be more of the same. Throwing out the same 5 man unit on a PP that is not scoring. Not breaking up a Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis line that is not producing. Not demanding that his team get in the face of a goaltender that is stopping everything. The list goes on and on. If you truly don't believe that Julien outcoached DB, then there's nothing more to say. We'll agree to disagree.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:46 am

The PP was extremely effective until Boston and had chances. Its the idea that just one and things turn around. The Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis line was extremely effective all season with all the players being productive. Every coach wants traffic in front of the net. When things are effective, when things produce and have produced you expect them to continue. We all do. Changing things up could again be just as negative and then we go to the old "coach jumbles lines too much to get chemistry" that people complained about. The Bruins capitalized on their opportunities and the Pens didn't. I don't think the coaches were as big a factor in this series as all you guys make it out to be. Both put their teams in positions to make plays.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby marek on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:50 am

farnham16 wrote:That's the problem. Bylsma thinks just because his system works in the regular season that it will work in the playoffs. Well, that ain't the case. And I've got four examples for anyone that claims otherwise. If Bylsma or the Penguins aren't willing to change, they will never again have playoff success.


Agreed.

Having a system that is so rigid that it cannot be adjusted to combat the strategy of an opponent is either absolutely ludicrous or completely arrogant.

Coaching by definition is instructing or guiding your players so that they can perform at their highest level and accomplish a goal.

We shall soon see if the Penguins were happy simply winning the conference/division regular season title.

Most other environments... That's not gonna cut it.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Daniel87 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:53 am

Rylan wrote:The PP was extremely effective until Boston and had chances. Its the idea that just one and things turn around. The Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis line was extremely effective all season with all the players being productive. Every coach wants traffic in front of the net. When things are effective, when things produce and have produced you expect them to continue. We all do. Changing things up could again be just as negative and then we go to the old "coach jumbles lines too much to get chemistry" that people complained about. The Bruins capitalized on their opportunities and the Pens didn't. I don't think the coaches were as big a factor in this series as all you guys make it out to be. Both put their teams in positions to make plays.

"Had the chances, hit some posts, didn't get the breaks, a force was keeping the puck out of the net, just didn't execute."
---Players/Coach who were swept by the Bruins
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:56 am

And I don't disagree. As I have stated, that series was just as close to being an even series as it was a sweep. Players were in position to make plays and they didn't. There were numerous rebounds to the off wing where a Pen was there with nothing but the puck and an empty net and didn't finish.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby bhaw on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:04 am

Rylan wrote:
Daniel87 wrote:
Rylan wrote:All coaches have a system that they don't deviate from. That is a joke argument. Do you think Torts changes his system? Or Ruff? Or Babcock? Or any other bloody coach? If you honestly think that that is a reason to fire Bylsma you are going to be sorely disappointed in life. Fire Bylsma for other reasons, but because he doesn't change his system is a silly one.

And he did in fact change things by tightening up the teams play in the Boston series. The team played a better defensive game which was an adjustment that everyone clamored for. The Pens had opportunities to finish, just because they didn't doesn't make it Bylsma's fault. Goodness me.

Silly me to suggest that the Pens should change a system that doesn't work. You're right, life is just meaningless now.


Silly you to think that a coach is going to change a strategy that has been effective all season for one team. That is silly. No coach ever does that. You will be firing coaches every season if that is your expectation.


I was going to let this go on and not involve myself until this. Coaches adjust to their opponents in the playoffs all the time. Boston's base defense never changed, but they absolutely made changes to completely neutralize the 2 strategies the Pens use for moving the puck into the offensive zone. DB's problem is he either doesn't want to or can't do the same in return (or he can't get his players to execute some master plan to change). He sat there for 4 games and watched his best players get stifled by anywhere from 2-4 Bruins when they entered the offensive zone. I can't think of another good coach that would watch that happen for 4 straight games and walk away feeling like they had more chances than either the Ottawa series of the NYI series.

Couple that with DB's inability to formulate a defensive system. What is ours? Literally it looks like guys are just supposed to look around for the closest guy and cover them. The NYI series was the joke of all jokes. They exposed every hole on defense we had, they just didn't have the fire power to out play us. Fleury played horrible, but the downward spiral started because the NYI exposed that we have trouble covering guys at the goal line. If it looked familiar, it's the same stuff Philly exposed last year with close in cross ice passes and allowing us to over-pursue pucks and passing right into the open space created by the pursuit of the puck.

And please go on about how it's acceptable to run an 0-15 PP out there without making a single change. You're telling me there are no coaches that would make an adjustment there? please...

DB is getting outclassed in the playoffs every year. If he gets retained, I'll live, but I certainly won't have any expectations going into the post season other than figuring out what round we get bounced in again. My confidence in DB's ability to get us to another finals is literally 0.01% right now. He's entirely too slow to even consider making a change, much less a significant one to help his team. Sid and Malkin will be very good for a while, but he's going to absolutely burn more of their best years if he sticks around. I would put money on that.

The Pens didn't outplay Boston anywhere. Boston played exactly how they wanted. In no game did we ever look in control to win it. They only blew us out in one game, but Rask sure didn't have to make too many spectacular saves to keep them in it. They laid the trap, we walked into it. You could almost see Boston surprised that we continued to walk into it in game 4. For the record, I am giving Boston credit. At the same time, it's easy to look good when the team you are playing keeps trying the same thing over and over and over and over.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby bhaw on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:11 am

tldnr version: a coach's job is to put their players in the best position to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. that will change based on opponents. DB fails at this miserably, regardless of whether he's fired or signed for life.

Is the Wednesday press conference optional?
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