bye-bye Dan Bylsma

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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Daniel87 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:13 am

bhaw wrote:tldnr version: a coach's job is to put their players in the best position to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. that will change based on opponents. DB fails at this miserably, regardless of whether he's fired or signed for life.

Is the Wednesday press conference optional?

maintenance day
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby smoothmoneyb on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:15 am

I'd probably say the Islanders series was even at best, giving two games to the pens, two to the isles, and 2 even. If forced to choose between the two, I'd have to say the Islanders were better overall, but not by a whole lot. You could make the argument that the isles where a little better in at least one of the games they lost, though (that I had called as even). Either way, that's not the point. As a first seed, with our roster and experience, playing against a young inexperienced 8th seed, we should have been better in all 4 games. End of story. We dominated ottawa, but they were just terrible. Absolutely no offense and overrated goaltending and defense. Probably the worst team to make the playoffs, definitely the worst in the east.

It's true that if we had lost to NY, this place would have gone nuts. But in hindsight, knowing what we know now, I would have rather us lost to NY. It would have saved us the embarrassment that was the Boston series. Yes, if we had been taken to 7 games by NY and lost, that would have been less embarrassing than what we witnessed against the Bruins. But more than anything, if we had lost that series, I'd have a really hard time believing we would be talking about DB possibly getting an extension. He'd be long gone by now. And in my opinion, that might just have been a blessing in disguise.
Last edited by smoothmoneyb on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Scott on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:15 am

Rylan wrote:And the Pens out played the Bruins for 3 of the 4 games in my opinion. So that I don't think that he was at fault in the Bruins series. The Islanders series I thought was even at worst. And the Ottawa series the Pens (including Bylsma's coaching) outclassed the Senators.


The second part is not far off. Isle were faster and the Pens had a bit more structure and were 10 times better in net. The third part had much more to do with the players just being better than Bylsma's coaching.

But your first part about the Bruins series that the Pens out played them in 3 of 4 games...have you gone mad?

The Pens out played the Bruins for the first 30 mins of that series. Up to the midway part of game one the Pens played better. After that point the Bruins had the following...more hits, more shots, more scoring chances, better scoring chances, more puck possession, better special teams, the dictation of the play.

The only thing I can't say the Bruins had better than the Pens was in the net. Not taking anything away from Rask but he faced some really low percentage shots minus the first 30 mins of game 1.
For goodness sake the Pens sweeping of the Hurricanes in 2009 was a 100 times closer than the Bruins series.

I can't remember the last time the Pens looked so bad in a playoff series of any level. I've been watching them a long time and they looked like a team that just got into the playoffs for the first time against a seasoned playoff team.
It WAS that bad! :face:
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:20 am

bhaw wrote:tldnr version: a coach's job is to put their players in the best position to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. that will change based on opponents. DB fails at this miserably, regardless of whether he's fired or signed for life.

Is the Wednesday press conference optional?

I see you have got to your game
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby bhaw on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:25 am

The Ottawa series was the Bizzarro world version of the Pens Bruins series. Ottawa did exactly what we did in that they let us play our system that was overwhelming and didn't adapt theirs. They insisted on playing Sid and Malkin 1 on 1. They trotted out Karlsson as the guy to cover them many times, I'm assuming because they hoped his speed would help him keep up? They made him look like an AHL fill in on several occasions. They tried Phillips who did ok, but there was no one able to cover the secondary guys (Neal, Kunitz, Dupuis, Iginla). It was the type of game DB's system is meant to beat, and what a lot of teams employ during the season when they have no reason to come up with new Xs and Os for a single game. DB's system and the players made that a series where coaching didn't have to play much of a role other than keeping the players on the normal track (although game 3 showed what a stupid decision can do even when you are dominating). DB gets credit for having that system in place and not doing something counterproductive besides go with the all offense PP that caused us to lose game 3.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Scott on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:28 am

Rylan wrote:All coaches have a system that they don't deviate from. That is a joke argument. Do you think Torts changes his system? Or Ruff? Or Babcock? Or any other bloody coach? If you honestly think that that is a reason to fire Bylsma you are going to be sorely disappointed in life. Fire Bylsma for other reasons, but because he doesn't change his system is a silly one.

And he did in fact change things by tightening up the teams play in the Boston series. The team played a better defensive game which was an adjustment that everyone clamored for. The Pens had opportunities to finish, just because they didn't doesn't make it Bylsma's fault. Goodness me.


STOP! Just STOP!

Nobody hear is advocating that Bylsma do a 180 degree with the system out of desperation. Everyone one of the above coaches with the possible exception of Tortorella because he is just as arrogant and ignorant as Bylsma....make changes and adjustments all the time. They tweak things here and there to counter what the other team is trying to counter. It is a chess match and Bylsma plays it with checkers.

The Wings had no business this year beating the Ducks. They did. They had no business taking the Hawks to over time in game seven while being up 3 games to 1. How did that happen? The players? No. Babcock worked the worlds greatest miracle and fell just a tick short. Regardless he adapts, adjusts and whatever else the situation calls for.

Oh and please spare us all that Bylsma all of a sudden changed the defense around to be tighter and better. In case you didn't know I will tell you....Boston was looking for one more goal than the Pens scored. Get it? They were not...are not...and will never be with that lineup anything a team has to make some magical defensive adjustment for. Bylsma did nothing of that...it was just Boston being Boston. Boston not scoring was more a product of how they are on offense than Bylsma doing anything. This I promise you
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby bhaw on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:28 am

Final point: what disturbs me the most about this team is that while they don't go out there and blame refs like the Caps or Sens or Flyers of past years would do, the Pens certainly don't seem to hold themselves accountable for their losses. It's all just puck luck or a hot goalie. Even though I hated the Caps, this bothered me to no end with Bruce. They never once indicated that they understood that the team in place and how they play was the issue with their constant playoff failures. The Pens do this as well. That comes from leadership... Dan never holds himself accountable, so it's not shocking the players don't either (exception being Malkin's interivew). Systems aside, that's not something I find incredibly encouraging because why change if it's not your fault?
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Scott on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:37 am

bhaw wrote:Final point: what disturbs me the most about this team is that while they don't go out there and blame refs like the Caps or Sens or Flyers of past years would do, the Pens certainly don't seem to hold themselves accountable for their losses. It's all just puck luck or a hot goalie. Even though I hated the Caps, this bothered me to no end with Bruce. They never once indicated that they understood that the team in place and how they play was the issue with their constant playoff failures. The Pens do this as well. That comes from leadership... Dan never holds himself accountable, so it's not shocking the players don't either (exception being Malkin's interivew). Systems aside, that's not something I find incredibly encouraging because why change if it's not your fault?


But why admit to something when your mentality is to keep on doing what is NOT working. Two things here, one you are too ignorant and arrogant to admit your system is getting whipped...and then when it does get whipped you just make references to magical forces at work and such because there is no DAMN way their strategy and system beat your system. That just isn't possible.

As far as players interviews...these guys are nearly trained robots when it comes to talking with the media. Say the right thing always...but by all means never ever ever throw a teammate, coach, GM and ownership and fans under the bus. EVER.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby SLF66 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:40 am

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/417 ... z2W1WhbQmu

During the meeting, Shero made a strong push for approval on an extension for Bylsma, who is set to enter the final season of his contract.
Shero wanted the coaching situation settled — at least Bylsma's status — so he could start finalizing a long-term contract with center Evgeni Malkin before turning to potential new contracts for winger Pascal Dupuis and defenseman Kris Letang.



Hello Dan Bylsma?
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:43 am

Scott wrote:
Rylan wrote:All coaches have a system that they don't deviate from. That is a joke argument. Do you think Torts changes his system? Or Ruff? Or Babcock? Or any other bloody coach? If you honestly think that that is a reason to fire Bylsma you are going to be sorely disappointed in life. Fire Bylsma for other reasons, but because he doesn't change his system is a silly one.

And he did in fact change things by tightening up the teams play in the Boston series. The team played a better defensive game which was an adjustment that everyone clamored for. The Pens had opportunities to finish, just because they didn't doesn't make it Bylsma's fault. Goodness me.


STOP! Just STOP!

Nobody hear is advocating that Bylsma do a 180 degree with the system out of desperation. Everyone one of the above coaches with the possible exception of Tortorella because he is just as arrogant and ignorant as Bylsma....make changes and adjustments all the time. They tweak things here and there to counter what the other team is trying to counter. It is a chess match and Bylsma plays it with checkers.

The Wings had no business this year beating the Ducks. They did. They had no business taking the Hawks to over time in game seven while being up 3 games to 1. How did that happen? The players? No. Babcock worked the worlds greatest miracle and fell just a tick short. Regardless he adapts, adjusts and whatever else the situation calls for.

Oh and please spare us all that Bylsma all of a sudden changed the defense around to be tighter and better. In case you didn't know I will tell you....Boston was looking for one more goal than the Pens scored. Get it? They were not...are not...and will never be with that lineup anything a team has to make some magical defensive adjustment for. Bylsma did nothing of that...it was just Boston being Boston. Boston not scoring was more a product of how they are on offense than Bylsma doing anything. This I promise you


So...Bylsma gets all blame and never credit. Got it. If you don't think the Pens played differently games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2 you are being just as biased as you are making me sound. So please spare me, because unlike you Shero and management agree with me. :slug:
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Scott on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:50 am

Rylan wrote:
So...Bylsma gets all blame and never credit. Got it. If you don't think the Pens played differently games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2 you are being just as biased as you are making me sound. So please spare me, because unlike you Shero and management agree with me. :slug:


Please tell me what moments from the 10 min mark of period two, game 1 forward that the Pens had the better of the play. Please help me understand this. I've watched the games twice now since then to just give the benefit of the doubt...and I can't find anything whatsoever that the Pens did better, which would mean they out played the Bruins....in any facet of the game. The lone exception being the goal tending as Voukoun was outstanding. Had he played average all 4 games would have been a blood bath. I can't even give the Pens the nod in the net minding department because Rask did only allow 2 goals in the whole series...albeit low percentage easy save shots.
Last edited by Scott on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Daniel87 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:51 am

Rylan wrote:
Scott wrote:
Rylan wrote:All coaches have a system that they don't deviate from. That is a joke argument. Do you think Torts changes his system? Or Ruff? Or Babcock? Or any other bloody coach? If you honestly think that that is a reason to fire Bylsma you are going to be sorely disappointed in life. Fire Bylsma for other reasons, but because he doesn't change his system is a silly one.

And he did in fact change things by tightening up the teams play in the Boston series. The team played a better defensive game which was an adjustment that everyone clamored for. The Pens had opportunities to finish, just because they didn't doesn't make it Bylsma's fault. Goodness me.


STOP! Just STOP!

Nobody hear is advocating that Bylsma do a 180 degree with the system out of desperation. Everyone one of the above coaches with the possible exception of Tortorella because he is just as arrogant and ignorant as Bylsma....make changes and adjustments all the time. They tweak things here and there to counter what the other team is trying to counter. It is a chess match and Bylsma plays it with checkers.

The Wings had no business this year beating the Ducks. They did. They had no business taking the Hawks to over time in game seven while being up 3 games to 1. How did that happen? The players? No. Babcock worked the worlds greatest miracle and fell just a tick short. Regardless he adapts, adjusts and whatever else the situation calls for.

Oh and please spare us all that Bylsma all of a sudden changed the defense around to be tighter and better. In case you didn't know I will tell you....Boston was looking for one more goal than the Pens scored. Get it? They were not...are not...and will never be with that lineup anything a team has to make some magical defensive adjustment for. Bylsma did nothing of that...it was just Boston being Boston. Boston not scoring was more a product of how they are on offense than Bylsma doing anything. This I promise you


So...Bylsma gets all blame and never credit. Got it. If you don't think the Pens played differently games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2 you are being just as biased as you are making me sound. So please spare me, because unlike you Shero and management agree with me. :slug:

Alright, I'll give him credit. 2-4 in his last 6 playoff series. Beat a 7/8 seed. Congrats on those 2 wins Dan, great job. You did everything you could. Just didn't get the bounces.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby JiriSlegr on Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:31 am

Rylan wrote:
Scott wrote:
Rylan wrote:All coaches have a system that they don't deviate from. That is a joke argument. Do you think Torts changes his system? Or Ruff? Or Babcock? Or any other bloody coach? If you honestly think that that is a reason to fire Bylsma you are going to be sorely disappointed in life. Fire Bylsma for other reasons, but because he doesn't change his system is a silly one.

And he did in fact change things by tightening up the teams play in the Boston series. The team played a better defensive game which was an adjustment that everyone clamored for. The Pens had opportunities to finish, just because they didn't doesn't make it Bylsma's fault. Goodness me.


STOP! Just STOP!

Nobody hear is advocating that Bylsma do a 180 degree with the system out of desperation. Everyone one of the above coaches with the possible exception of Tortorella because he is just as arrogant and ignorant as Bylsma....make changes and adjustments all the time. They tweak things here and there to counter what the other team is trying to counter. It is a chess match and Bylsma plays it with checkers.

The Wings had no business this year beating the Ducks. They did. They had no business taking the Hawks to over time in game seven while being up 3 games to 1. How did that happen? The players? No. Babcock worked the worlds greatest miracle and fell just a tick short. Regardless he adapts, adjusts and whatever else the situation calls for.

Oh and please spare us all that Bylsma all of a sudden changed the defense around to be tighter and better. In case you didn't know I will tell you....Boston was looking for one more goal than the Pens scored. Get it? They were not...are not...and will never be with that lineup anything a team has to make some magical defensive adjustment for. Bylsma did nothing of that...it was just Boston being Boston. Boston not scoring was more a product of how they are on offense than Bylsma doing anything. This I promise you


So...Bylsma gets all blame and never credit. Got it. If you don't think the Pens played differently games 3 and 4 compared to 1 and 2 you are being just as biased as you are making me sound. So please spare me, because unlike you Shero and management agree with me. :slug:


You're talking about games in which the the team was down two games to none. You're talking about games in which the Penguins were playing not at home, but on the road. As many fans, sports columnists, and players point out, teams play differently on the road than they do at home. It's an entirely different atmosphere, one that requires a different idea of how to win from the moment the puck is dropped.

(Not to mention a PP that made no changes beyond adding Martin with 40 seconds to go on our last PP in the Boston series--a PMart that apparently had a severe enough injury we could not even imagine the impact. Or how wise it was to take TK out of the line up after proving his speed was integral to undoing the Islanders and making Vokoun a proven goalie. Well, as Bylsma would say, Fleury's proven back up come this fall.)

I agree with you that Bylsma is a good coach. The guy gets players behind him and he gets them moving north/south and on a mission. I think that if he is fired tomorrow that he will be hired almost immediately and with a pedigree that deserves support. I don't believe that, given his track record, he is the right coach to take this team to the promised land. He enforces a system that works in the regular season and refuses to make the necessary alterations come the playoffs. He enforces a gap between D and forwards that is easy to bridge, a stretch pass that at best hits off the high wall and lands on a forward's stick, and a D corps that is hoping to goodness a forward is there to help when the opposing forward takes them into the wall.

Bylsma doesn't make series altering changes. He makes small alterations while the ship is sinking and its captain should be on the bridge (don't mind the iceberg, sir. The PP is fine--post game 3).

Shero and management agreeing with you doesn't entail you being right. It means that a team that has faltered for the last few years is sticking to its guns.

If the organization opts to keep Bylsma, I hope it's the right decision. I hope that I am wrong. I am a fan of this team and I want them to win. I would love for Bylsma to be the coach next spring when Crosby lifts the fabled chalice above his head. If it takes a more than a year, let's have at it! But in this moment, after years of failure, I see no reason to give Bylsma the confidence of a coach desperate to win. All I see is a coach sticking to his game plan and calling the players out on failing to do what he believes is right. Hell, when they do right, they're still doing wrong (Vokoun).

But I'm just a fan. Let's see what the organization decides tomorrow.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby pekkasteele on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:41 am

Just hire Torts and let him scream at the players until January, then, when they are feed up with him, re-hire Bylsma and we could have -09 all over again.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby pens2005 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:54 am

SLF66 wrote:http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/4179341-74/shero-malkin-bylsma#axzz2W1WhbQmu

During the meeting, Shero made a strong push for approval on an extension for Bylsma, who is set to enter the final season of his contract.
Shero wanted the coaching situation settled — at least Bylsma's status — so he could start finalizing a long-term contract with center Evgeni Malkin before turning to potential new contracts for winger Pascal Dupuis and defenseman Kris Letang.



Hello Dan Bylsma?


How does anyone know what Ray Shero was saying to Lemieux and company? He was making a push for him?

What, did Rossi get invited to the meeting?

What total nonsense from the trib.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby pens2005 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:57 am

He didn't have enough time to put Martin on the power play. They only had 15 of them.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby shmenguin on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:19 am

I'm not going to go over the top and say ill stop watching or lose interest because DB is coming back, but I don't think there's any way we win the cup with this group and this coach. So that's cool.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby columbia on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:24 am

Do teams (of any sport) often announce a firing at a pre-planned press conference?
I suppose that happens...but not often.

I would think that Bylsmagic is here to stay.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:27 am

Shero didn't speak on sunday, that's why there is a press conference today.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:28 am

columbia wrote:Do teams (of any sport) often announce a firing at a pre-planned press conference?
I suppose that happens...but not often.

I would think that Bylsmagic is here to stay.


He deserves at least 10 years of leeway after leading the Pens to the Cup.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby columbia on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:33 am

Shero is going to troll LGP by extending DB, re-signing Letang for $8M and trading Vokoun. :pop:
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:38 am

shmenguin wrote:I'm not going to go over the top and say ill stop watching or lose interest because DB is coming back, but I don't think there's any way we win the cup with this group and this coach. So that's cool.


I won't completely lose interest, but it will significantly drop.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby shmenguin on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:45 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
shmenguin wrote:I'm not going to go over the top and say ill stop watching or lose interest because DB is coming back, but I don't think there's any way we win the cup with this group and this coach. So that's cool.


I won't completely lose interest, but it will significantly drop.


I guess if I feel like the games are pointless on some level, then there will be an implicit loss of interest.
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:00 am

I don't have complete control of my tickets since i've moved from PIttsburgh, but if its up to me, all of our tickets will be listed on day 1 if he isn't fired. Like I said though, I only get up there for like 6-8 games a year, so its not really up to me. :scared:
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Re: bye-bye Dan Bylsma

Postby penny lane on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:08 am

If Blysma is staying then there really is no need to replace Reardon or Granata. What's the point?

I don't want to hear GM Ray Shero say again, that it's his fault when I never heard those words from Coach Disco.
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