Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Malkamaniac on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:27 am

See what Gonchar signed for today? Get Letang out now to get max value before he commands a billion dollars.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby midd on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:27 am

This applies to Malkin too....

lemieuxReturns wrote:#4. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing letang take the puck into the zone and give it away only to result in a breakaway.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Tyler Durden on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:30 am

Malkamaniac wrote:See what Gonchar signed for today? Get Letang out now to get max value before he commands a billion dollars.



Especially with the market for defensemen this year. Letang could bring a huge return and could bring balance to the Force...I mean the Penguins.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:36 am

Tyler Durden wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:See what Gonchar signed for today? Get Letang out now to get max value before he commands a billion dollars.



Especially with the market for defensemen this year. Letang could bring a huge return and could bring balance to the Force...I mean the Penguins.


By huge return though, you have to either be getting a high draft pick, or 2-3 young but low salaried players who have a few years before they can earn a big payday. Trading Letang who may command 6-8mil a season for 1 person who makes 5mil a season is worthless. You need to be able to get even salary and and extra player (2 3mil forwards, etc), otherwise their cap situation doesn't improve.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Tyler Durden on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:41 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:
Malkamaniac wrote:See what Gonchar signed for today? Get Letang out now to get max value before he commands a billion dollars.



Especially with the market for defensemen this year. Letang could bring a huge return and could bring balance to the Force...I mean the Penguins.


By huge return though, you have to either be getting a high draft pick, or 2-3 young but low salaried players who have a few years before they can earn a big payday. Trading Letang who may command 6-8mil a season for 1 person who makes 5mil a season is worthless. You need to be able to get even salary and and extra player (2 3mil forwards, etc), otherwise their cap situation doesn't improve.


You're spot on. The draft this year is supposed to be a deep one so it would be nice to get to draft in the first round. Having said that, I'm not revisiting the Iginla trade and saying it was mistake. It wasn't. Thing is, despite getting boat raced again, the Pens are still in win-now mode so I was thinking more of a return of some young players with years of control left. If it's a trade of Letang for a d-man of an equal cap hit and a draft pick then it's not really worth making a trade, right?
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Pitts on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:35 pm

1) HCDB - Stay or Go ==>

I'm cool with a coaching change. But, I like to watch defensively responsible hockey that is patient for their chances. Thus run and gun -- I just don't like it. It has never won a Championship

2) Fleury ==>

I've warmed to the possibility of moving him, BUT, I'd rather go with option #1 above and see what he can do behind a real, responsible team defense. Fleury's got talent.

3) Dupuis/Cooke==>

Honestly, I'm not as enamored with Dupuis as the majority here. If he comes at a nice price, ok then. Cooke is the man I want to keep. With all his "baggage", the guy knows how to play hockey. I love his penalty kill and speed on the forecheck. His hitting game came back around this year and he was solid. Keenedy, please leave. Dime a dozen player

4) Malkin/Letang ==>

I'm very open to a Letang trade. The guy is a goal against waiting to happen nearly every time he's in the defensive zone. Give Despres his playing time. Malkin will be here for the long-haul.

5) UFA/RFA ==>

Iginla resigns for 2 more seasons (and under a new coach actually gets to play right wing with Crosby and the left point of on the powerplay like he should have been and has a fantastic season). Morrow, gone. Murray, I'd like to keep. Buy out Martin??? Our best defenseman?? Some people!

Oh, and sign David Clarkson.
Last edited by Pitts on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby BleuLineLady on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:37 pm

I think alot of the players issues come down to coaching or lack their of. Pens do need to revise and retool the lineup, but I think the coach needs to be the first move. I want the Pens to get Tortorella. I know some may not like him, but he's a very good coach. He just has had a lineup in New York that honestly just wasnt that good. Richards and Nash are nowhere even in the same category as Malkin and Crosby. Tortorella has shown he can win with highly talented teams like in TB. He's obviously done it before and frankly we need somebody who can establish some discipline and be much much more defensively sound. The offense will be there, but Boston showed defense wins championships.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Guinness on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:41 pm

pens2005 wrote:
Guinness wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Guinness, you're acting like you didn't just witness 4 straight games of colossal failure. There's losing and there's getting run out of the building. This series was the latter - and that should never happen with this roster , ECF or otherwise


Except they did not get run out of the building.


THEY GOT SWEPT. WE SCORED TWICE (0 FOR 15 ON THE POWERPLAY)

We were run out of the building in every facet.


PGH were run out of the building on the scoresheet, no doubt. And if that is all you saw of this series, you might be inclined to suggest that they were run out of the building "in every facet". The fact is, they were not.

PGH were more in this series than they were in the NYI series, despite the sweep.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby owtahear on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:04 pm

Pitts wrote:1) HCDB - Stay or Go ==>

I'm cool with a coaching change. But, I like to watch defensively responsible hockey that is patient for their chances. Thus run and gun -- I just don't like it. It has never won a Championship

2) Fleury ==>

I've warmed to the possibility of moving him, BUT, I'd rather go with option #1 above and see what he can do behind a real, responsible team defense. Fleury's got talent.

.


Thomas Vokoun had a 0.933 save percentage playing behind the same defense. Not sure how a "defensively responsible" system can help MAF from putting pucks that bounce off the boards in his own net. I said last year, the dirty little secret of the Flyer series that most people refused to acknowledge that while yes the Pens were horrid on D, if MAF just was merely average, we win that series.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby owtahear on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:05 pm

BleuLineLady wrote:I think alot of the players issues come down to coaching or lack their of. Pens do need to revise and retool the lineup, but I think the coach needs to be the first move. I want the Pens to get Tortorella. I know some may not like him, but he's a very good coach. He just has had a lineup in New York that honestly just wasnt that good. Richards and Nash are nowhere even in the same category as Malkin and Crosby. Tortorella has shown he can win with highly talented teams like in TB. He's obviously done it before and frankly we need somebody who can establish some discipline and be much much more defensively sound. The offense will be there, but Boston showed defense wins championships.


I would like to motion banning you from this forum for even suggesting Torterella.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby BleuLineLady on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:24 pm

owtahear wrote:
BleuLineLady wrote:I think alot of the players issues come down to coaching or lack their of. Pens do need to revise and retool the lineup, but I think the coach needs to be the first move. I want the Pens to get Tortorella. I know some may not like him, but he's a very good coach. He just has had a lineup in New York that honestly just wasnt that good. Richards and Nash are nowhere even in the same category as Malkin and Crosby. Tortorella has shown he can win with highly talented teams like in TB. He's obviously done it before and frankly we need somebody who can establish some discipline and be much much more defensively sound. The offense will be there, but Boston showed defense wins championships.


I would like to motion banning you from this forum for even suggesting Torterella.


Wow, somebody is a bit immature?
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby bse on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:33 pm

FLPensFan wrote:Since we are now officially in the Pens offseason, might as well start an offseason thread.

2) Fleury ==> Fleury's playoff meltdown is becoming too common. Many are calling for Fleury to be dealt, bought out, etc. I for one don't see this happening for the simple fact that there is no long-term Plan B. The Pens have nobody else in their system that even smells of a franchise goalie, let alone a sure-fire NHL starter. There is nobody else out there that is going to be available that would be a playoff anchor in goal. With a change in coach, hopefully would bring in a new goalie coach other than Meloche. Fleury is still only 28 and continues to put up impressive numbers in the regular system. You hope that you can right Fleury for the playoffs, but if not, you need to have a short-term Plan B like a Vokoun. For as bad as Fleury was in the Isles series, goaltending did not lose this series.


Pittsburgh and Montreal both have a fragile goaltender. I believe a change of scenery would benefit both Fleury and Price, along with their respective teams.

It makes a lot of sense.

Fleury is from Quebec, Price is from British Columbia. Montreal would probably appreciate Fleury more.

Price is three years younger than Fleury and has kind of worn out welcome. Very similar to Fleury in Pittsburgh.

Fleury was drafted 1st overall - Price 5th overall.

Montreal also has a lot of young and upcoming defensemen on the way up (such as Tinordi, Beaulieu) and are nearing 10 bodies on active roster, when everyone is healthy.
Pittsburgh may need to replenish D positions from 4 to 6. Niskanen and Engelland can't be counted to play more than 6th/7th D.

Yannick Weber, who has had problems with his knee, and only played six games last year, doesn't figure to be in their plans anymore.
Still, he's pretty decent with the puck and would definitely fit our top-6, with potential for more.
He will be RFA, and that probably prompts Montreal to deal him. His cap hit for the past two years was 850.000.

Fleury is signed through 2015. His cap hit is 5 million. Price is signed through 2017 and has a cap hit of 6,5 million.

If I was Ray Shero, I would offer Montreal:

Fleury and Kennedy (combined cap hit 7 million, Kennedy RFA) for Price and Weber (combined cap hit 7,35 million, Weber RFA)

What do you think? Would they go for it? Would it be wise at all?
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:36 pm

I don't think Montreal would be interested in that trade at all. Price has the makings of a stud and is just now getting a good team in front of him. No way the Habs even think twice about saying no.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby bse on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:53 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:I don't think Montreal would be interested in that trade at all. Price has the makings of a stud and is just now getting a good team in front of him. No way the Habs even think twice about saying no.


Maybe you are right, but Price does seem to be their favorite whipping boy and scapegoat. Media in Montreal doesn't really like him - or the fans. He's very similar to Fleury in that respect. Management might think otherwise though, and Bergevin has done a great job so far.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:56 pm

bse wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:I don't think Montreal would be interested in that trade at all. Price has the makings of a stud and is just now getting a good team in front of him. No way the Habs even think twice about saying no.


Maybe you are right, but Price does seem to be their favorite whipping boy and scapegoat. Media in Montreal doesn't really like him - or the fans. He's very similar to Fleury in that respect. Management might think otherwise though, and Bergevin has done a great job so far.

They ran Patrick freakin Roy out of town. That fan base sucks.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby bse on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:03 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:
bse wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:I don't think Montreal would be interested in that trade at all. Price has the makings of a stud and is just now getting a good team in front of him. No way the Habs even think twice about saying no.


Maybe you are right, but Price does seem to be their favorite whipping boy and scapegoat. Media in Montreal doesn't really like him - or the fans. He's very similar to Fleury in that respect. Management might think otherwise though, and Bergevin has done a great job so far.

They ran Patrick freakin Roy out of town. That fan base sucks.


Not as much as Toronto's :P

Anyway, it's kind of fun that their fan base has so far been very classy (except for couple of weeks since re-hiring him) with Michel Therrien

That's very unexpected. Really.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby IntangibleBeer on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:17 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:1) I don't see how Bylsma can keep his job. 4 playoff exits since the Cup, two of them 1st round exits and only one trip the ECF with a roster like the Pens? He's gone. Mark it down.


Absolutely agree with this. You need a coach who knows how to work with superstars, has the ability to adjust in-game, and has a good strategic sense of the game. This series really reminded me of how and why Badger Bob Johnson was so successful. His teams BELIEVED because they had both the fundamental strategies for playing and he had instilled that belief in themselves. At times when faced with adversity, this team goes to pieces. Badger's team did not.

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:2) Fleury....gone. They will make all attempts to trade. Maybe a Miller/Fleury swap, maybe for a team with a dman in a similar situation, but they will attempt trade him and if not, a buyout wouldn't shock me. I think a buyout will be a super last resort and not without them having another goalie wrapped up. Spending $5M a Fleury to have Vokoun carry us to the ECF? No way hoe-zay. With the exception of game 1, Vokoun was Phenomenal for us and shows Shero and the rest of the organization they can spend less money for better goaltending.


Have to agree here as well. Much as I like Fleury (think he's a terrific human being as well), it hasn't worked out - for whatever reason. Goalie coach Melloche must share some of this blame as well. He needs to go. I would like to see a hard-assed competitor like Barrasso as goalie coach (yeah, I know all the baggage and I don't care).

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:3) Dupuis and Cook will be re-sign and I project Dupuis will make either $3M for two years or $2.5 for three years. Cooke, 3 years/$2.3M

I want to see them both re-signed. Cooke and Vokoun were the Pens best players of this series, no doubt. Cooke comes to play every night no matter what. I have little respect for the fans who want to dump him because of his "name". Man up for Christ's sake. :evil: I also love Dupuis' intensity and heart. Keeper.

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:4) Part A) Malkin will NEVER be traded for one reason: Sidney Crosby. With Sid's health-risks, there's no way Malkin gets traded. Malkin is the greatest insurance policy in the game. If they Gino and Sid goes down, the Pens are back to square 1.


Agree. Malkin also played his heart out and is an offensive force to be reckoned with. Yes, he's had giveaways (makes me crazy), but he can play a great 2-way game. Someone in a prior thread mentioned that Malkin had killed penalties while in Russia, wouldn't it be something to see him scare the crap out of some PP point man? (I see a few shorty's there :lol: ). I'm not saying he should permanently be on the PK, but let's make more use of him in other situations.

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:Part B) I don't see how Letang isn't moved this off-season. How Shero can justify giving Letang anywhere near his market value for the D that we have and the cost of losing multiple key parts to this team is beyond me. I just can't see it happening. I also don't see Shero holding on to Letang for his last year at the risk of losing him for nothing. Now is the best time to trade him.


Letang is a defensive liability. Every time he steps on the ice he gives me (and probably most of you) a heart attack. Maybe a new coach (see point 1 above) can get him to see the light, maybe not. It is clear to me that he doesn't make good on-ice decisions and has a real attitude problem (stupid penalities, borderline uncoachable). If a new coach can't cure him, it's time to move him. Maybe it's time anyway just to get some cap space back.

...

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:5) I think Kennedy gets traded, Morrow not re-signed, but I'm unsure what will happen with Iginla. I'm not against re-signing Iginla for the right money and if Bylsma is no longer the coach so he can't continue to mis-use him. I'm not sure if Jokinen will be traded or retained. I think it would be wise to re-sign Murray.


I don't know about them. Kennedy had a bad year but a great playoff run. He was a big part of Isle's series win. I'd keep Morrow if he'll take a pay cut. Iginla contributed in the regular season. He needs to play on Crosby's right wing (another bonehead Bylsma decision to put him at LW). Offer him less and see what he does. Bennett also needs to see a lot of time on Crosby's right wing.

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:My notes: It's time to let Despres and Bortuzzo come in full-time. They're not going to develop any better if they don't actually get real time. I think both will be very good. I think the Penguins should trade Letang and Engellend. Go into next season with Martin, Orpik, Despres, Bortuzzo, Murray, Engellend and try to sign one more Dman. There are some really solid middle-rung dmen in the UFA pool this year. That may not look like the greatest d-core, but no matter what anyone says I like our Defensemen and I really believe they need a coach will get them in a real system and they'd be perfectly solid.


Absolutely agree regarding Despres and Bortuzzo. Engelland I can take or leave, although he adds significant toughness to a pairing. Murray was a great acquisition. Martin was our best defenseman this year. The pairings need to get straightened out (another bonehead Bylsma decision - Letang & Niskannen? :scared: WTF?). Niskannen needs to go.

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I think Bennett should be up full-time. I'd be fine with him playing on the third line with Cooke and Sutter.

I'd buyout Fleury and go after Backstrom or trade him for Miller

Fire Bylsma and sign Ruff.

There's my 2 cents.


That's more than 2 cents! :lol: But mostly I agree. Bennett needs to be on the squad - totally agree. 3rd line duties with an occasional try at first line would be good. Miller is a good goalie and might generate some good chemistry with this d-corps.

I don't know if Ruff is the right guy or not, but I do know that Bylsma is NOT. What about Vigneault?
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby SolidSnake on Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:40 pm

Sounds like Morrow knows he is on his way out. He didn't get to his game.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:45 pm

bse wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:I don't think Montreal would be interested in that trade at all. Price has the makings of a stud and is just now getting a good team in front of him. No way the Habs even think twice about saying no.


Maybe you are right, but Price does seem to be their favorite whipping boy and scapegoat. Media in Montreal doesn't really like him - or the fans. He's very similar to Fleury in that respect. Management might think otherwise though, and Bergevin has done a great job so far.


Doesn't help the Pens. That would be taking on more salary, as Price makes 1.5mil more a season and is signed 3 years longer than Fleury. Pens cannot make any trade where they are bringing more salary back in the deal.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:51 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
I think Bennett should be up full-time. I'd be fine with him playing on the third line with Cooke and Sutter.

I'd buyout Fleury and go after Backstrom or trade him for Miller

Fire Bylsma and sign Ruff.

There's my 2 cents.


I don't understand dumping Fleury for a 35 year old Backstrom. Not even sold on Miller at 32. While overall the age isn't bad, Miller is also coming off one of his worst seasons. The Pens need to get younger.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Rylan on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:03 pm

Fleury for Halak.

Fleury for Holtby.

Fleury for Bernier.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:08 pm

price and miller...because it's fun having a headcase goalie, right?

Spoiler:
Image
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:10 pm

Guinness wrote:
pens2005 wrote:
Guinness wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Guinness, you're acting like you didn't just witness 4 straight games of colossal failure. There's losing and there's getting run out of the building. This series was the latter - and that should never happen with this roster , ECF or otherwise


Except they did not get run out of the building.


THEY GOT SWEPT. WE SCORED TWICE (0 FOR 15 ON THE POWERPLAY)

We were run out of the building in every facet.


PGH were run out of the building on the scoresheet, no doubt. And if that is all you saw of this series, you might be inclined to suggest that they were run out of the building "in every facet". The fact is, they were not.

PGH were more in this series than they were in the NYI series, despite the sweep.


That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. That we were more in the Boston series than the Islanders series.

Are you really typing this stuff?
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby Guinness on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:20 pm

pens2005 wrote:
Guinness wrote:
pens2005 wrote:
Guinness wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Guinness, you're acting like you didn't just witness 4 straight games of colossal failure. There's losing and there's getting run out of the building. This series was the latter - and that should never happen with this roster , ECF or otherwise


Except they did not get run out of the building.


THEY GOT SWEPT. WE SCORED TWICE (0 FOR 15 ON THE POWERPLAY)

We were run out of the building in every facet.


PGH were run out of the building on the scoresheet, no doubt. And if that is all you saw of this series, you might be inclined to suggest that they were run out of the building "in every facet". The fact is, they were not.

PGH were more in this series than they were in the NYI series, despite the sweep.


That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. That we were more in the Boston series than the Islanders series.

Are you really typing this stuff?


Whatever. Did you watch the games? PGH was LUCKY to win at least 2 of the games they won against NYI. They were in 3 of the 4 games of this series.

Whatever. I don't care to get into an online fight about this. It's not that important. That's just what I saw.
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Re: Top 5 issues for Penguins to address this offseason

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:23 pm

Guinness wrote:
Whatever. Did you watch the games? PGH was LUCKY to win at least 2 of the games they won against NYI. They were in 3 of the 4 games of this series.

Whatever. I don't care to get into an online fight about this. It's not that important. That's just what I saw.


I agree it's not important. I'll just say we lost every one and averaged .5 goals per game in the series

That didn't happen at all in the islanders series.
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