Fleury buy-out?

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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Tyler Durden on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:42 am

pens2005 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:If you're going to fire and replace Bylsma, wouldn't you want to see how Fleury performs under the new coach before making a decision on how you want to handle him?


Not me. Fleury's confidence in this jersey is done for good. I'm not taking that risk come next postseason.


I can't say I blame you and you might be correct. Big decisions to made this summer. I'm really curious to see what Shero does.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby topshelf on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:44 am

bh wrote:IDK. Would a new goalie coach help? Can he calm down and play confidently? I just feel like there aren't all that many good goalies out there. I feel like we let him go and then.........?


I've been saying this for a while now. Is Gilles Meloche really the best guy for the job, or is he just a member of the good-old-boys network? You hear goaltenders like Jonathan Quick and Mike Smith credit their goaltending coaches for helping their game develop and evolve, and you don't hear much about what Meloche had done for MAF.

Maybe it's time for a switch there? I still believe that Fleury is an elite goalie, but something's gotta change for him.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby pronovost19 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:44 am

In a sound structured defense Fleury is very good. He was hung out to dry in the Isles series. Still a ton of hockey in Fleury. Personally, I think he deserves a chance to regain his form and with Vokoun here it makes it easier. But, I understand the sentiments.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:47 am

I think it's also ok to think about the idea of a Malkin and Letang being dealt.

Listen, cap is going down. Which is even more of a reason NOT to have two guys making $9 million per year on the books.

You just can't have it. It cripples your roster down to the bottom and as we can conclude, the 2 star model isn't working.

Now I doubt they trade Malkin. But the discussion should be there. Things need to be changed.

I can also see Bortuzzo, Despres, and Harrington getting serious looks next year.

Hopefully we have a coach willing to stick with them.

Things you also HAVE to consider would be:

Who you would get in return for:
Fleury?
Malkin?
Letang?
Anyone else?

Because you can bash the flyers all you want, but their strategy with Richards, Carter, etc. wasn't working. They blew it up. I believe they for much younger, better. That can be debated too, but they weren't afraid to do something.

These constant humiliating series losses have to stop. We can't just keep saying: well, maybe next year. That's equivalent to Bylsma's "we have to get to our game" nonsense.

Major changes need to occur. If you totally disagree with that idea, then you're accepting what has clearly been the most disappointing 4 seasons in the history of this organization in terms of expectations and reality.
Last edited by pens2005 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby smoothmoneyb on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:48 am

Tyler Durden wrote:I don't see it happening for several reasons. As an organization, I don't see the Penguins doing that. It's not the way they roll. If Fleury is to be jettisoned, it will be via a trade. The other thing to consider is a possible coaching change. A new coaching staff means a new system and a fresh start. I'm not sure Bylsma will be fired, but if he is, hiring a new coaching staff should be a reason to keep Fleury. I realize MAF has not played to his capabilities but the team defense in front of him hasn't been consistently good, either.


See, to me this argument make more sense for a player like letang than it does for fleury, unless we're talking about specifically a new goaltender coach. I just can't imagine how much DB has to do with fleury recent post season shortcomings.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby KG on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:48 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Kharlamov wrote:Do you think this will happen?

With the cap situation, it seems like a real possibility. Although a real lower tier team might trade for him, which of course would be better.



No need. Teams will be interested. Like calgary.


Agreed. No need to buyout MAF. Many teams will be calling. Calgary, Colorado (Roy), Tampa, Islanders (I really don't care they are in our division. Get the best deal for him).
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:51 am

KG wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
Kharlamov wrote:Do you think this will happen?

With the cap situation, it seems like a real possibility. Although a real lower tier team might trade for him, which of course would be better.



No need. Teams will be interested. Like calgary.


Agreed. No need to buyout MAF. Many teams will be calling. Calgary, Colorado (Roy), Tampa, Islanders (I really don't care they are in our division. Get the best deal for him).


And we know how to beat him too: just throw pucks to the back boards and have him swim all over the ice until he knocks it in.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Tyler Durden on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:27 am

smoothmoneyb wrote:
Tyler Durden wrote:I don't see it happening for several reasons. As an organization, I don't see the Penguins doing that. It's not the way they roll. If Fleury is to be jettisoned, it will be via a trade. The other thing to consider is a possible coaching change. A new coaching staff means a new system and a fresh start. I'm not sure Bylsma will be fired, but if he is, hiring a new coaching staff should be a reason to keep Fleury. I realize MAF has not played to his capabilities but the team defense in front of him hasn't been consistently good, either.


See, to me this argument make more sense for a player like letang than it does for fleury, unless we're talking about specifically a new goaltender coach. I just can't imagine how much DB has to do with fleury recent post season shortcomings.



I think it COULD help both Letang and Fleury. I agree that it's tough to tell how much Disco has had to do with Fleury's recent postseason play. Fleury has let in really awful goals but he has also been left hung out to dry too many times since Bylsma has taken over. I don't know the answer but I will ask it: did Bylsma stifle Fleury's development? He seemed to be improving until the year after the Cup.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Penspal on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:30 am

Why would you buy him out when there would teams wanting to trade for him? He's shown enough (even his year + eek even a playoff shutout) AND has a cup that his value in his current contract makes him an asset.

Absolute foolish thinking, however understandable coming after a series ending loss.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby malkinshair on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:38 am

pronovost19 wrote:In a sound structured defense Fleury is very good. He was hung out to dry in the Isles series. Still a ton of hockey in Fleury. Personally, I think he deserves a chance to regain his form and with Vokoun here it makes it easier. But, I understand the sentiments.


These are my thoughts as well. Fleury's been a guy that gets way too much blame for the team's bad performances since '09. Funny thing is he really doesn't get the credit he deserves for the good performances. He's looked overmatched in the playoffs the last 2 years, but the team in front of him did too. When he's playing behind a non-idiotic defensive structure (which he did most of the regular season this year), he is a top 10 goaltender.

I do, however, think he's done here...and for me it's a real shame. I think he's a guy that needs support to be exceptional (i.e. 90% of NHL goalies), and he's never going to get that support in a Pen's uniform. If Bylsma's system (and the joke of a GT coach) are gone next year and replaced with a more defensive minded/counterstrike mentality, then I think Fleury has more value staying with the Pens for at least another year to see how he responds than he does being traded/bought out. I don't, however, think that Shero and Mario have the desire to bring in a defensive-minded coach to handle their two generational offensive talents. They just don't seem to think that way.

I also think the Marc-Andre may be calling Shero this morning to request a buyout/trade. Again, he seems to be the one player singled out for their past failures. We lost again...in maybe the most embarrassing way I've ever seen...and MAF was on the bench for all but 2 periods...and there are still people that assess him some of the blame. I'd want a fresh start somewhere else too.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby PghSkins on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:38 am

Penspal wrote:Why would you buy him out when there would teams wanting to trade for him?


You wouldn't.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:38 am

I highly doubt the Pens can afford to buy anyone out. Already paying Sid millions over the cap hit, another huge chunk of millions? Pens are not in position to do that they just aren't.

For those blaming Bylsma and Meloche remember how much better the PP got when that idiot Yeo left?
Not much, right.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Inkio on Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:58 am

MRandall25 wrote:If you're going to fire and replace Bylsma, wouldn't you want to see how Fleury performs under the new coach before making a decision on how you want to handle him?


That is one of the best statements I have read throughout all of the playoffs. You just enlightened me.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby brwi on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:22 am

I'd actually keep him. I'd keep Letang also unless the contract $$$$'s get out of whack.

Letang was a pretty good two-way dman until DB came along, promptly scratched him for 3-4 games, and then made him change his game to being an offensive powerhouse that falters defensively.

I'd rather keep the guys and see what happens with an entirely new coaching staff than just trying to trade them for picks. Vokoun did a great job but he's 37 and Pens have nothing in the system as far as a goaltenders. He's going to either need a very good backup or go back to being #2 behind MAF or someone else.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby malkinshair on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:51 am

brwi wrote:I'd actually keep him. I'd keep Letang also unless the contract $$$$'s get out of whack.


Yeah, I'm just not sure he wants to be here anymore.

Bylsma has gone out of his way at times to throw him under the bus. He hasn't been that good, but how many times do you hear a coach basically single out the goaltender when the team is playing like crap in front of him? All Dan had to say was 'Marc's had a tough time in net, but we haven't been helping him out at all in front of him.' Why hold the entire team accountable when you can blame one guy! Good coaches usually use situations like that to light a collective fire under the entire team's butts, but I think Dan realized that his system and lack of adjustments were part of the blame, and probably the bigger problem with respect to poor playoff performances. Rather than accept the obvious, he transferred most of the blame to the goaltender IMO.

It's gutless to point the fingers of blame away from you when everyone can see that some of it belongs right in your lap. I wouldn't want to play for a coach that is gutless.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Kovy27 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:42 am

brwi wrote:I'd actually keep him. I'd keep Letang also unless the contract $$$$'s get out of whack.


Gonchar just got 5 million per from Dallas. How much do you think Letang is worth?
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Tyler Durden on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:44 am

Kovy27 wrote:
brwi wrote:I'd actually keep him. I'd keep Letang also unless the contract $$$$'s get out of whack.


Gonchar just got 5 million per from Dallas. How much do you think Letang is worth?



About the same. Letang can't QB a power play. I'm going to be ill if the Penguins give Letang 7 million dollars per season.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Malkamaniac on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:02 pm

Letang put up double the points Gonchar did. He's worth way more than Gonch.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:09 pm

I honestly think you can't have two expensive (over 7 mil per) players on offense. You also can't have them both on defense.

You have to have 1 on offense and 1 on defense.

If you keep Malkin with Crosby you're, once again, putting all your eggs in offense first.

The cap is a huge concern at this point.

It's about balance. You have to be able to score ugly goals. We cannot. We are too pretty, too finesse.

In the playoffs you have to be able to adapt to the situation. We cannot. We try the same stuff over and over.

Coaching is part of that? But your lineup cannot be one dimensional and I truly think it will become that if you sign Malkin at the expense of Cooke Dupuis and/or Letang.

Maybe trading both Letang and Malkin needs to be considered. There has to be a different approach to their philosophy. You don't need 9 million dollar stars to win Stanley Cups. You just don't.

I dunno.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby pens2005 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:11 pm

Fleury ruined himself. His psyche is shot to hell and he has nobody to blame but himself.

You cannot blame a coach for the types of goals he gives up.

He's cooked here in the burgh, and that's squarely on him.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Pitt87 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:51 pm

Significant changes coming, and goaltending is one of them. You don't keep your franchise goalie if he's lost his starting job. You give him a chance to play elsewhere.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby bse on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:43 pm

Kovy27 wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:If you're going to fire and replace Bylsma, wouldn't you want to see how Fleury performs under the new coach before making a decision on how you want to handle him?


Yes. However, people over react and want important piece traded/moved.

It was the coach. End of the story.


Important piece? Watching from the bench after failing against the Islanders?
He's no #1 goaltender for us. Not anymore, and therefore isn't an important piece either.

A 36-year old backup outplayed him. Fleury makes 5 million a year and should be moved as we have no need for him anymore. If there's a need, he plays and that didn't happen after the first round (and game 2 vs Boston).
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Firebird on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:49 pm

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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby Candleonwater on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:04 pm

Can I offer up Holtby? I would be sad to see Flower leave Pittsburgh, so I say send him here!

Do hockey players/teams ever use sports psychologists?
Last edited by Candleonwater on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fleury buy-out?

Postby supermario on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:05 pm

Definitely time for a new goalie coach. New approach to the game. Golfers change coaches all the time. I would prefer this to just cutting him loose. I think there is a lot of hockey in him yet. A better defensive system might help too.
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