Letang Extended; 8 years 7.25mm, Limited no trade (15 teams)

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If true:

Let him walk after next season and take a final run with him as #1 Dman
11
5%
Sign him and Malkin, rest of the roster be damned
12
5%
Sign him and trade Malkin/let Malkin walk
0
No votes
Trade Letang at draft/before season starts
202
83%
Shut up NAN
18
7%
 
Total votes : 243

Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:07 pm

its unlikely that we win the cup next year, whether letang's playing or not. in which case, if we know we can't sign letang, we trade him before the draft. last year, my answer would have been different. i thought that under normal circumstances, this team had more control over its own fate.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby marek on Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:10 pm

The math might be slightly off but I think letang will take a bit of a discount in exchange for a long term deal... But it will still more than what most expect shero to give him.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby Desiato on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:02 pm

meow wrote:Why do you think Edmonton is not desirable?


You'd have to ask the players:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/allstar ... o-play-on/

But really, it's not hard to understand why.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby Crankshaft on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:24 pm

marek wrote:The math might be slightly off but I think letang will take a bit of a discount in exchange for a long term deal... But it will still more than what most expect shero to give him.


I think the "discount" comes from the 8th year, that only the Penguins will be able to offer. I don't think he'll leave any total money on the table.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby pens2005 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:15 pm

shmenguin wrote:its unlikely that we win the cup next year, whether letang's playing or not. in which case, if we know we can't sign letang, we trade him before the draft. last year, my answer would have been different. i thought that under normal circumstances, this team had more control over its own fate.


Unlikely? Didn't know you had a crystal ball.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:31 pm

What I'm about to say has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion of Letang as a player. Letang is an elite dman in my eyes.

Why I think Letang is irrelevant to the Penguins success is that the issue with this team is not quality of players, it's their inability to play team defense and with a real structure. I don't want this to turn into a bylsma blame thread, I'm not going to point any blame.

IMO, spending $7+M a year on dman who combined with the rest our defense combines for a mediocre d-core makes no sense. Yes, removing Letang from the picture with no back-up plan would make our D and transition game worse, but how much worse can it get?

With Letang out of the picture: Martin, Orpik, Despres, Niskanen, Bortuzzo, Engellend, Murray(if he re-signs). On paper that's still a formidable defense. It's all about the execution. The Media has taken many jibs at the Pens calling them "Paper Champions" and they're right.

If Letang cost the team as much as Martin I'd be all in, but to spend that much money for mediocrity? No thank you. I'd rather trade Letang and have Shero try to bring in maybe a couple of solid dmen and form just a solid defense. If you have to trade someone like Niskanen and Engellend to do it, so be it.

Keepin Letang at $7M+ means having to possibly let some key players walk away.

If the system on the Pens will not change, then they have the unfortunate task of having to buy the right players who will fit the system. This is why I liked the one thing I read about Letang to Anaheim for Bobby Ryan and Sbisa.

Next season is the coming of Despres.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby shmenguin on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:54 pm

On paper, that defense is scary bad. Not formidable. IMO
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:57 pm

columbia wrote:Because an organization has to plan for the future and simply letting him walk is the opposite of that.
Winning a cup is REALLY hard to do and the odds are that they won't, even with him back in 2013-14. At that point, we're supposed to shrug our shoulders and say enjoy your riches elsewhere?

And to be clear: I want him to stay for another 9+ years, but it doesn't seem likely.

The chances of winning are a function of the probability of winning the Cup times the number of opportunities. I'm simply saying we have a better chance of winning the Cup in 2013-14 with Letang than we do in 2013-14 or the other years without Letang. Mathematically my formula looks something like this:

With Letang:
2013-14: 75% 2014: 50% 2015: 50% 2016:50%

Without Letang:
2013-14: 50% 2014: 55% 2015: 55% 2016:55%

The numbers are illustrative only, but the structure is the point I'm trying to make. Letang is more valuable this year than his replacements are after this year. I really don't understand what's hard to see. You can disagree with my conclusions, but it seems like you're rejecting my premises (or you don't understand them).
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby Pitts on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:19 am

Hammer, I love you buddy, but I just don't buy your scenario. There is no way to predict probability of winning a Cup with any one player. And, IMO, you simply can not let a talent like Letang walk for a 2nd or 3rd round pick!
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby pens2005 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:43 am

Pitts wrote:Hammer, I love you buddy, but I just don't buy your scenario. There is no way to predict probability of winning a Cup with any one player. And, IMO, you simply can not let a talent like Letang walk for a 2nd or 3rd round pick!


People will want Shero hanged if he traded his rights for negotiations for a 4th round pick.

It would be absolutely brutal.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:44 am

Pitts wrote:Hammer, I love you buddy, but I just don't buy your scenario. There is no way to predict probability of winning a Cup with any one player. And, IMO, you simply can not let a talent like Letang walk for a 2nd or 3rd round pick!

I love you too, Pitts. And of course you can't predict the chance of winning the Cup with precision. But that equation illustrates the relevant inquiry. If we agree that we should do with Letang what maximizes our chance of winning a Cup, then we must look at whether that probability is highest by improving our team this year with him or by improving our team in future years (and taking a substantial hit this year). I'm not positive I'm right. But I doubt the return can really help us given our cap situation going forward. So, I conclude we should keep him this year and lose if we must---i.e., I think we should maximize our chances of winning this year and take a hit in future years instead of significantly diminishing our chances this year and getting a slight bump in future years. Maybe I'm wrong. But this is the inquiry. Conclusory assertions that "we can't lose Letang for nothing" are not helpful. As I've said, we're not losing him for nothing; we're getting him for this year. Trading him right now and getting 0 in return is "losing him for nothing."
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:48 am

pens2005 wrote:
Pitts wrote:Hammer, I love you buddy, but I just don't buy your scenario. There is no way to predict probability of winning a Cup with any one player. And, IMO, you simply can not let a talent like Letang walk for a 2nd or 3rd round pick!


People will want Shero hanged if he traded his rights for negotiations for a 4th round pick.

It would be absolutely brutal.

Where is this coming from? Again, you'd have him for this year. What if we could look into a crystal ball and see Letang would help this team to win a Cup this year. If we then traded him for these dream packages proposed by some posters, wouldn't Shero be hanged for depriving a chance of winning the Cup? Teams make trades to win now and sacrifice the future all the time. That's what happens when you trade Joe Morrow, a first rounder, and two seconds for Morrow and Iginla. According to a lot of your arguments, we gave these pieces away "for nothing." Of course, that's not true. We gained valuable pieces that increased our chances of winning a Cup this year but decreased our chances of winning the Cup in future years.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby no name on Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:50 am

Is Kris Letang really irreplaceable?? I just don't see it. We had Kris for the past 3 years and didn't win a cup. Other teams didn't have him and won. We are still a stanley cup team without him and actually the right player in return we increase our chances.

You play a system that maximizes what you have, utilizing your players. We might have to change how we play defence as a whole but that could be a good thing.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby sil on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:24 am

There's a 55% chance that this thread is going batty.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby sil on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:39 am

no name wrote:Is Kris Letang really irreplaceable?? I just don't see it. We had Kris for the past 3 years and didn't win a cup. Other teams didn't have him and won. We are still a stanley cup team without him and actually the right player in return we increase our chances.

You play a system that maximizes what you have, utilizing your players. We might have to change how we play start playing defence as a whole but that could be a good thing.


FIFY
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby no name on Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:47 am

sil wrote:
no name wrote:Is Kris Letang really irreplaceable?? I just don't see it. We had Kris for the past 3 years and didn't win a cup. Other teams didn't have him and won. We are still a stanley cup team without him and actually the right player in return we increase our chances.

You play a system that maximizes what you have, utilizing your players. We might have to change how we play start playing defence as a whole but that could be a good thing.


FIFY


Yes much better thanks.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby Stevo on Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:54 am

Unlikely to happen but I'm salivating at the prospect of trading with TB for the #3 (Drouin!!!) Hedman and a prospect.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:56 am

sil wrote:
no name wrote:Is Kris Letang really irreplaceable?? I just don't see it. We had Kris for the past 3 years and didn't win a cup. Other teams didn't have him and won. We are still a stanley cup team without him and actually the right player in return we increase our chances.

You play a system that maximizes what you have, utilizing your players. We might have to change how we play start playing defence as a whole but that could be a good thing.


FIFY


Yep... plain as nose on face... we haven't bothered to protect a goaltender in years. Everyone in the organization would admit to that. That said, the only reason to change the personnel is if they system changes. If changes in personnel -- coaches or players included -- don't happen, I don't see any indication that the system is going to change. IN fact, if personnel changes are any indication, GMRS and HCDB do think its goaltending thats the issue...
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby KG on Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:59 am

Stevo wrote:Unlikely to happen but I'm salivating at the prospect of trading with TB for the #3 (Drouin!!!) Hedman and a prospect.


Maybe I'm undervaluing Letang...but that seems like a boatload for Tampa to give up...A rebuilding team shouldn't trade a top 3 pick and their best defensman....

Don't get me wrong, I hope they do!
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby Stevo on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:07 pm

KG wrote:
Stevo wrote:Unlikely to happen but I'm salivating at the prospect of trading with TB for the #3 (Drouin!!!) Hedman and a prospect.


Maybe I'm undervaluing Letang...but that seems like a boatload for Tampa to give up...A rebuilding team shouldn't trade a top 3 pick and their best defensman....

Don't get me wrong, I hope they do!


Hedman is a bit much. The #3 and a couple legit prospects would be super awesome still. Can you imagine this team with Droiun and Bennett for years to come. Scary :P
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby no name on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:12 pm

Stevo wrote:Unlikely to happen but I'm salivating at the prospect of trading with TB for the #3 (Drouin!!!) Hedman and a prospect.



There is a good chance Jones could fall to 3, Fla was rumored to like McKinnon and Drouin and would of been prepared to selct either one if Jones was out of the picture. So could we land Jones??? Its nice to think about, but without TB doing a complience buyout on Vinny Le. i don't see them having the cap space to Sign Letantg. But Stamkos would be even more dangerous with Tanger feeding him those one time attempts.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby Kraftster on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:12 pm

Every time I think about posting in this thread, I come across a Hammer post that I just want to QFT. Hammer is nailing it.

And where is this idea that it is not Shero's style to let a player leave for nothing? Not only has it happened with his own players, but he has twice in four years traded for the marquee rental player and has seen that player walk once and TBD (likely walk) a second time. Jordan Staal was a more unique situation because (1) his minutes and contributions were easier to replace than Letang's will be and (2) the return on his then-salary was only a moderate bargain as opposed to Letang who is worth more than double his current salary (i.e., ~$4M bargain vs. ~$1M bargain).
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby no name on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:25 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:
pens2005 wrote:
Pitts wrote:Hammer, I love you buddy, but I just don't buy your scenario. There is no way to predict probability of winning a Cup with any one player. And, IMO, you simply can not let a talent like Letang walk for a 2nd or 3rd round pick!


People will want Shero hanged if he traded his rights for negotiations for a 4th round pick.

It would be absolutely brutal.

Where is this coming from? Again, you'd have him for this year. What if we could look into a crystal ball and see Letang would help this team to win a Cup this year. If we then traded him for these dream packages proposed by some posters, wouldn't Shero be hanged for depriving a chance of winning the Cup? Teams make trades to win now and sacrifice the future all the time. That's what happens when you trade Joe Morrow, a first rounder, and two seconds for Morrow and Iginla. According to a lot of your arguments, we gave these pieces away "for nothing." Of course, that's not true. We gained valuable pieces that increased our chances of winning a Cup this year but decreased our chances of winning the Cup in future years.


I think you are over valuing a 1st round pick (very late 1st rounder) and Joe Morrow (he was rumored managemnet soured on him). 2 - 2nd rounders are not that valuable in the overalls scheme.

Do you really think Letang is the key to winning the cup, you don't think we could land ourselves a player who could take on his minutes and perform just as well, overall? You might not get a point per game player on defnece, but someone who would be a positive player. I think we would be better off without him, he is a great offensive D man, but his 5 on 5 game needs improvement still. I thnk without Letang, Dan Bylsma might try to coach defence more than preach the defencemen all chasing the play up ice.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby IanMoran on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:30 pm

I've always thought Letang / Staal were the 2 most overrated Penguins, so I guess its fitting they will likely have the same fate

And no I'm not a letang "hater," I just think he's not worth the salary he will demand.
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Re: Pens believe Letang will want $7-$8MM/Year

Postby meow on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:30 pm

IanMoran wrote:I've always thought Letang / Staal were the 2 most overrated Penguins, so I guess its fitting they will likely have the same fate

And no I'm not a letang "hater," I just think he's not worth the salary he will demand.
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