NHL Awards

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Re: NHL Awards

Postby shmenguin on Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:15 pm

As it's defined, malkin should have won the mvp in 08.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby DudeMan2766 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:31 am

Bobby Clarke sucks and he can rot in Hell for all i care
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby FreeCandy44 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:00 am

DudeMan2766 wrote:Bobby Clarke sucks and he can rot in Hell for all i care

BOOM!
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby André on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:50 am

ivand87 wrote:Both Crosby and OV had 21 games this season against playoff teams. The difference in their point totals and their team's win totals in those games is staggering.

OV had 9 goals and 10 assists for 19 points in those games. Crosby had 8 goals and 25 assists for 33 points! It's 1.57 vs. 0.9 points per game right there. The Pens lost 2 of those 21 games. The Caps lost 14 of those 21 games.


Yeah the Southeast factor is always noticeable when looking a bit more closely on Ovechkin's and Stamkos' numbers.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby Gaucho on Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:56 am

mikey287 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Why is Bobby Clarke underrated?


Never led the league in points. Not a noted goal scorer. Played for a very defensive team. Lacked a #1 PMD to create the same dynamic that other high scoring 70's teams utilized (Montreal, Boston, etc.) and his numbers suffered as a result.

I invite you to read the small blurb on Bobby Clarke in this article I wrote on his defensive play: http://thehockeywriters.com/elite-eight ... y-history/

Doesn't have a "moment" necessarily that's positive. There's really only two lasting memories of Bobby Clarke, right? His toothless grin and the slash on Kharlamov.


But he has won three Hart trophies and is recognized as one of the best ever, that's why I wonder if he truly is underrated.

That said, he deservers to burn in hades for what he did to Kharlamov. :twisted:
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby shmenguin on Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:49 am

Yeah, that was my thought as well. He seems pretty highly rated, historically.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby André on Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:08 am

André wrote:
ivand87 wrote:Both Crosby and OV had 21 games this season against playoff teams. The difference in their point totals and their team's win totals in those games is staggering.

OV had 9 goals and 10 assists for 19 points in those games. Crosby had 8 goals and 25 assists for 33 points! It's 1.57 vs. 0.9 points per game right there. The Pens lost 2 of those 21 games. The Caps lost 14 of those 21 games.


Yeah the Southeast factor is always noticeable when looking a bit more closely on Ovechkin's and Stamkos' numbers.


Again about this: If not for being part of the Southeast Caps doesn't reach playoffs, and then Ovy doesn't get the Hart. So both his individual numbers as well as his trophy case really has gotten a boost from him and his team being part of the Southeast.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby Guinness on Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:19 am

I guess we'll see starting next season, then.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby sniper on Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:27 am

mikey287 wrote:
DelPen wrote:The bigger joke is Subban getting a Norris.


Agreed. 4th on his own club in ES/TOI, 2nd in ATOI. His own coach didn't believe he was the best defenseman on the team, one could make that suggestion at least.


Subban getting the norris was by far the biggest joke. He and Ovechkin both won their awards based largely on PP production. In Subban's case his team was on the power play a ridiculously longer amount of time than every other team in the league. At even strength he didn't even lead his team in points by defensemen. I don't like giving awards to power play specialists. Not that both aren't capable even strength players, but they aren't elite producers there. Especially in Subbans case.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby Gaucho on Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:31 am

The Norris has become a farce.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby mikey287 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:39 am

shmenguin wrote:Yeah, that was my thought as well. He seems pretty highly rated, historically.


I never hear him really mentioned with that elite group. Frankly, I have him ahead of Messier (right there with him more or less). It seems that Messier is put in this upper tier always, while Clarke is "down there" with lesser players...

I think he was/is underrated...but I guess that's all subjective...it's probably more likely that Messier is overrated, and he is...
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby brwi on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:20 am

mikey287 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:Yeah, that was my thought as well. He seems pretty highly rated, historically.


I never hear him really mentioned with that elite group. Frankly, I have him ahead of Messier (right there with him more or less). It seems that Messier is put in this upper tier always, while Clarke is "down there" with lesser players...

I think he was/is underrated...but I guess that's all subjective...it's probably more likely that Messier is overrated, and he is...


Agreed on both of those points.

Clarke is a little underrated as a player and Messier definitely overrated, especially his BS about predicting wins that he did constantly and often times proved he wasn't Nostradamus.

Clarke was a skilled player on the Broad Street Bullies and one helluva captain. Now, every next Flyer captain has to try and fill those shoes and that's not so easy. As disgusted as I was with Clarke's leg-breaking cheap-shot, he was a great player.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby NashvilleCat on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:21 am

Gaucho wrote:The Norris has become a farce.

I think that any award that is determined by vote is by and large a farce. Awards voted on by your peers or competitors are one thing but fan and writer votes generally don't get it right.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby meow on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:42 am

I hereby motion that all awards be voted on by players, coaches, and players only.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby pens2005 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:45 am

meow wrote:I hereby motion that all awards be voted on by players, coaches, and players only.


So players get 2 votes each? :pop:
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby meow on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:50 am

pens2005 wrote:
meow wrote:I hereby motion that all awards be voted on by players, coaches, and players only.


So players get 2 votes each? :pop:

D'oh. Players, coaches and gms
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby mikey287 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:52 am

"high ranking" members of the media, coaches, select pro scouts, GMs, select players.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby pens2005 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:59 am

mikey287 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Why is Bobby Clarke underrated?


Never led the league in points. Not a noted goal scorer. Played for a very defensive team. Lacked a #1 PMD to create the same dynamic that other high scoring 70's teams utilized (Montreal, Boston, etc.) and his numbers suffered as a result.

I invite you to read the small blurb on Bobby Clarke in this article I wrote on his defensive play: http://thehockeywriters.com/elite-eight ... y-history/

Doesn't have a "moment" necessarily that's positive. There's really only two lasting memories of Bobby Clarke, right? His toothless grin and the slash on Kharlamov.


Not sure what your saying above proves he's underrated as much as it proves he is overrated. Yet, your article was really good on bobby Clarke and would suggest he is underrated. Not sure which you believe to be true.

Also, I didn't see a slash on kharlomov. I saw a hit from behind. Am I missing it?
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby since1970 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:04 am

I don't think Clarke is underrated at all. He's always in the discussion of the greatest ever, but I do think he suffers a little based on the way he played. There was never a slash, hook, elbow, butt end he didn't like, and he never seemed to shut up! He was one of the, if not the best pest in the league, as well as being a highly skilled player. I think he suffers a little because of it, but he was the perfect storm of a player for that era. He was the ultimate player you hate cause he's not on your team I've ever seen play.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby Shakes on Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:07 am

SoCalPenguin wrote:
Shakes wrote:I came on just to read SoCal's posts.

lol


I hope you enjoyed it.

Seriously I knew this would happen and I'm really angry and really tired that we are seemingly always getting the short end of the stick.

Anyway I look forward to hearing that Ovie got syphilus (sp) over the summer. It's time for the worm to turn. I really want to see Sid lead Canada to gold in Sochi so Sir Smirnovs career can take a nosedive...again.


lol
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby mikey287 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:12 am

In terms of just "competitors", since1970, does anyone rank above Bobby Clarke in your time as a hockey fan? In terms of just pure compete level, a guy that you just knew hated to lose more than anyone...
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby since1970 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:10 pm

Mikey, the easy answer has to be yes. Clarke was the one guy you would never mind seeing stretchered out. He was the most obvious "competitior" in the league, although I don't think his level was higher than that other players he made it look like it was. He always looked like he'd been in a street fight before the game, and the fact the he played on the Flyers compounded it. Getting your a** handed to you year after year by a team with that level of arrogance drove you crazy, even tough Boston, Montreal, and even later the Isles, beat us regularly you always though that if everything went right we could beat them. The Flyers in the Clark era though would come in and it seemed they would try to humiliate you physically and on the scoreboard, that's why one of the greatest trades the early Pens pulled off was getting Battleship Kelly and Steve Durbano from the Blues. Immediately it was a different game against the Flyers, suddenly the Pens had a little more confidence knowing Schultz, Kelly, Dornhoefer and the rest weren't going to come in and physically intimidate us, but their talent level far exceeded ours, and the end result was the same. It always looked like Clarke was dragging himself into the face off dot, almost like he was barely able to stand, but when the puck dropped it was like a shot of adrenaline. His play I'm sure angered a lot of players from the era. He probably, to me, is the most arrogant player ever. A guy you thought could be just as good without the antics, but it was like he thought he had to have that physical edge to play like he did, and a total master at stick work, elbows. He was always on the edge, but was talented enough not to end guy's careers. The Kharlomov incident was Bobby Clarke at the level that scared you when you saw him play, it didn't surprise me it was him that did it, but it was something you fully expected of him in an NHL game. He might have gone over the edge a few times in the NHL, but never to that extent. He was the perfect player for that franchise. There's no other team of any era I can think of where he would've gotten away with his type of play. Hope it kind of answers your question, even though I went on a little rant. I didn't even get into the entertainment in the crowd that sometimes exceeded what was on the ice during those games. It got petty physical in the stands too. I might add that Billy Smith might be a distant second on that list. Strange to think of it now, but to have your goaltender be the best agitator/pest on your team is rare
Last edited by since1970 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby pens2005 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:12 pm

mikey287 wrote:In terms of just "competitors", since1970, does anyone rank above Bobby Clarke in your time as a hockey fan? In terms of just pure compete level, a guy that you just knew hated to lose more than anyone...


Was born in '80 so never saw him play. My future father in law is a Philly guy and he would totally agree with your sentiment and say no there wasn't anyone better.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby brwi on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:32 pm

mikey287 wrote:In terms of just "competitors", since1970, does anyone rank above Bobby Clarke in your time as a hockey fan? In terms of just pure compete level, a guy that you just knew hated to lose more than anyone...


That's a really good question. I don't know if you can exceed the level at which Clarke competing at or how he influenced his team, but there are some right up there.

I'd have to go with Jagr as one of those who had an incredible compete level and sometimes used sheer will to win. I'm obviously not talking about the Jagr that left the Pens "dying alive" either but he has quite a body of work where he was as competitive and excelled above and way beyond the norm. Yzerman would be another and so would Billy Smith as someone else rightfully mentioned in this thread.

And, Dale Hunter REALLY hated to lose too :D but he doesn't qualify since taking one of the most blatant cheap-shots against another NHL player in the playoffs isn't about "competing" but more about being a immature jag-off.
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Re: NHL Awards

Postby Sams_Dog on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:58 pm

pittsports87 wrote:Image


This highlight is reason enough by itself to disqualify Ovechkin. What a joke. So now you can quit for half a season and win the MVP? If Jagr had known that back when he played for the Caps he would have been pissed about it.
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