Free agency

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Re: Free agency

Postby meow on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:20 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
offsides wrote:
meow wrote:
canaan wrote:Its not a matter of having a durable 3rd liner, its the option of filling a top 6 winger role when an injury happens. As it stands, who do you bump up in case of injury? No Kennedy, no Cooke. Jokinen isn't a winger. Its a gaping hole.

Jokinen can play on either side of center. What makes you say he can't?


Maybe he can play on wing, but he can't play well on either wing. He was a healthy scratch in many playoff games for a reason. If we have to depend on JJ for a top 6 roll, we are in trouble.


He was a healthy scratch because there was no room for him in the Top 6 once Crosby returned.

He's not a bottom 6 player.

Yea, that's pretty black and white.
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Re: Free agency

Postby offsides on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:21 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
offsides wrote:
meow wrote:
canaan wrote:Its not a matter of having a durable 3rd liner, its the option of filling a top 6 winger role when an injury happens. As it stands, who do you bump up in case of injury? No Kennedy, no Cooke. Jokinen isn't a winger. Its a gaping hole.

Jokinen can play on either side of center. What makes you say he can't?


Maybe he can play on wing, but he can't play well on either wing. He was a healthy scratch in many playoff games for a reason. If we have to depend on JJ for a top 6 roll, we are in trouble.


He was a healthy scratch because there was no room for him in the Top 6 once Crosby returned.

He's not a bottom 6 player.


So on this team, does he play with Sid or Geno? Or do we just sit him until an injury happens?
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Re: Free agency

Postby canaan on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:22 pm

meow wrote:
canaan wrote:Its not a matter of having a durable 3rd liner, its the option of filling a top 6 winger role when an injury happens. As it stands, who do you bump up in case of injury? No Kennedy, no Cooke. Jokinen isn't a winger. Its a gaping hole.

Jokinen can play on either side of center. What makes you say he can't?

years of watching him struggle at it? Jussi has been one of my favorite hockey players since the lockout. Hes going to struggle if he's put in a checking role and he's going to struggle playing a passive role in relation to malkin and Crosby. His only success will be if one of those two miss playing time.
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Re: Free agency

Postby meow on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:25 pm

canaan wrote:
meow wrote:
canaan wrote:Its not a matter of having a durable 3rd liner, its the option of filling a top 6 winger role when an injury happens. As it stands, who do you bump up in case of injury? No Kennedy, no Cooke. Jokinen isn't a winger. Its a gaping hole.

Jokinen can play on either side of center. What makes you say he can't?

years of watching him struggle at it? Jussi has been one of my favorite hockey players since the lockout. Hes going to struggle if he's put in a checking role and he's going to struggle playing a passive role in relation to malkin and Crosby. His only success will be if one of those two miss playing time.

There is a difference between him struggling at it and him being less comfortable at it. He's obviously going to be better at one position over another. That doesn't mean he struggles at wing. He's more than capable of playing a top 9 role on the wing.
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Re: Free agency

Postby canaan on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:27 pm

Eh? I'm not following
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Re: Free agency

Postby meow on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:29 pm

I think Jokinen can play wing on one of the top 3 lines and not have it be a total disaster. That's pretty much all I'm saying.
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Re: Free agency

Postby MRandall25 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:30 pm

offsides wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
offsides wrote:
meow wrote:
canaan wrote:Its not a matter of having a durable 3rd liner, its the option of filling a top 6 winger role when an injury happens. As it stands, who do you bump up in case of injury? No Kennedy, no Cooke. Jokinen isn't a winger. Its a gaping hole.

Jokinen can play on either side of center. What makes you say he can't?


Maybe he can play on wing, but he can't play well on either wing. He was a healthy scratch in many playoff games for a reason. If we have to depend on JJ for a top 6 roll, we are in trouble.


He was a healthy scratch because there was no room for him in the Top 6 once Crosby returned.

He's not a bottom 6 player.


So on this team, does he play with Sid or Geno? Or do we just sit him until an injury happens?


I'd play him with Geno, if it appears as though Geno hasn't worked to be better at faceoffs.

But there's just as good an argument to put Bennett in that slot. Whatever. Not really sure you could go wrong with either on the wing with Malkin and Neal.
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Re: Free agency

Postby canaan on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:38 pm

meow wrote:I think Jokinen can play wing on one of the top 3 lines and not have it be a total disaster. That's pretty much all I'm saying.

I'm not saying it would be a disaster, but its not something you want to happen for more than 10-12 games at a time. He's a LW, but finds most of his success in a role dictating the puck possession early in the sequence...just like Crosby and Malkin. When you have two players on the same line doing that, you end up with turnovers and offsides more than normal. This doesn't work to the bylsma system benefit. In a short term, like I said, its not bad. If its any extended amount of time, its a frustration builder foe both players. Its exponentially highlighted on Malkins line because of evgenis more aggressive style. Jussi isn't talented enough to be versatile. He's very WYSIWYG and that's fine on a weaker team where he's the full time 2nd line C in the regular season. He's not meant for playoff-style hockey.
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Re: Free agency

Postby canaan on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:40 pm

Also, Jussi playing in a checking role is what got him benched I'm Carolina. He doesn't have the commitment to be any sorts of gritty. Its also why his playoff success isn't comparable to his regular season successes.
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Re: Free agency

Postby meow on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:46 pm

canaan wrote:Also, Jussi playing in a checking role is what got him benched I'm Carolina. He doesn't have the commitment to be any sorts of gritty. Its also why his playoff success isn't comparable to his regular season successes.

What I noticed about his playoff performance was his total inability to make room for himself or his linemates. He's great in the regular season when you have more time and space, but in the playoffs when time and space virtually disappear, he was seriously uncomfortable.
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Re: Free agency

Postby columbia on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:48 pm

He fits right in, in that case.
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Re: Free agency

Postby canaan on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:49 pm

Thats depressingly true
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Re: Free agency

Postby meow on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:50 pm

Supporting the puck carrier is something you learn as a mite. Maybe Bylsma should hire a mite coach to go back to basics.
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Re: Free agency

Postby canaan on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:56 pm

Playing a superstar on the wing he's accustomed to his in a similar vein of thought. maybe bylsma should hire a mite coach to learn the simple stuff.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:08 pm

Ugh. It's going to be a long offseason.
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Re: Free agency

Postby cojac on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:06 am

I think this will be the opening night roster, Niskanen will get traded for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Jeffrey-Sutter-Bennett
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Zolnierczyk

Scuderi-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Despres-Bortuzzo
Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun
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Re: Free agency

Postby bhaw on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:12 am

I don't have as much an issue with the 4th as apparently many do, but that 3rd line (Jeffrey - Sutter - Bennett)... if that's what we roll with for combos I don't even know how to describe that line. Sutter belongs there. Jeffrey can take a shot. Bennett is a young top 6 type forward. As individuals, I see why each would be on that line, but the three together... like lamb and tuna fish.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Froggy on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:28 am

MRandall25 wrote: Not really sure you could go wrong with either on the wing with Malkin and Neal.


recent history pretty much says the exact opposite. that was a major black hole for the ENTIRE duration of this season.
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Re: Free agency

Postby offsides on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:43 am

cojac wrote:I think this will be the opening night roster, Niskanen will get traded for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Jeffrey-Sutter-Bennett
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Zolnierczyk

Scuderi-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Despres-Bortuzzo
Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun


If everyone is healthy, I pretty much agree with this. Of course HCDB likes to change things up every few shifts.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Pens4Life on Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:03 am

cojac wrote:I think this will be the opening night roster, Niskanen will get traded for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Jeffrey-Sutter-Bennett
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Zolnierczyk

Scuderi-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Despres-Bortuzzo
Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun

I dont mind the lineup,but we are way too soft and non-gritty
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Re: Free agency

Postby Sarcastic on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:37 am

We used to be a big team. I think it's been a real problem lately. I want a couple 6'3-6'4 forwards.
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Re: Free agency

Postby bh on Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:02 am

bhaw wrote:I don't have as much an issue with the 4th as apparently many do, but that 3rd line (Jeffrey - Sutter - Bennett)... if that's what we roll with for combos I don't even know how to describe that line. Sutter belongs there. Jeffrey can take a shot. Bennett is a young top 6 type forward. As individuals, I see why each would be on that line, but the three together... like lamb and tuna fish.
I'm excited to see what Jeffrey brings this year. He's going to get a chance to stick in the lineup for real. Hopefully he trains hard this offseason and is ready. I think he could be a real contributor. Also I'm a LOT more comfortable with Bennet-Jeffrey on the 3rd than Jokinen-Jeffrey, so I hope DB goes with this lineup.
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Re: Free agency

Postby KG on Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:17 am

Pens4Life wrote:
cojac wrote:I think this will be the opening night roster, Niskanen will get traded for a 2nd or 3rd rd pick.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Jokinen-Malkin-Neal
Jeffrey-Sutter-Bennett
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Zolnierczyk

Scuderi-Letang
Orpik-Martin
Despres-Bortuzzo
Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun

I dont mind the lineup,but we are way too soft and non-gritty



Way to soft....need to upgrade that.......
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Re: Free agency

Postby Gaucho on Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:24 am

My concern this off-season wasn't necessarily to get younger, but to get faster. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we are not faster than before.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Steve Dave on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:04 am

If Nisky and Jokinen were traded for picks/prospects, the Pens would have approx. $2.2mil for a winger leaving $1mil in cap wiggle room. Cleary has speed and PK abilities that would help replace the loss of Cooke. He had a cap hit of $2.8 mil last season so not sure if he would take a lower cap hit...

Kunitz Crosby Dupuis
Cleary Malkin Neal
Jeffrey Sutter Bennett
Glass Vitale Adams
Zolneirczyk

Cleary had a down regular season but a great playoff showing (opposite of Jokinen)
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