Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:55 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Am i the only one who watched morrow play last year? He sucked with the stars and continued sucking with the pens. Getting him was dumb at the time and in retrospect, and bringig him back would be equally dumb. He is too slow to play on the penguins.


No because he had a cool one liner to Suban from the penalty box. He earned Pittsburgh folk status just like Crankshaft with a cool nickname.

I agree and actually think that with most of our pickups. Production be damned including all being basically cut to as few minutes as possible or even benched in the playoffs.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby The Snapshot on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:03 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Am i the only one who watched morrow play last year? He sucked with the stars and continued sucking with the pens. Getting him was dumb at the time and in retrospect, and bringig him back would be equally dumb. He is too slow to play on the penguins.


No because he had a cool one liner to Suban from the penalty box. He earned Pittsburgh folk status just like Crankshaft with a cool nickname.

I agree and actually think that with most of our pickups. Production be damned including all being basically cut to as few minutes as possible or even benched in the playoffs.


At the deadline, there were national analysts who pointed out that none of the Pens acquisitions made the team faster. They all put up points down the stretch or in Murray's case added physicality - but in retrospect they were ALL too slow. That included Iginla.

The Bruins may be a better fit for him. The Pens top 6 is pretty darn good, and I'd prefer Bennett getting heavy minutes all year as opposed to seeing Iginla getting them

Morrow was good down the stretch - but having a cracked kneecap only adds to the concern that he cannot stay healthy at this point in his career.

Murray reminded me of King Kong on the Empire State Building in the playoffs, swatting at faster, smaller guys. I don't think he was the answer. Scuderi will not lay people out, but he will do his job in front of the net.

Jokinen provides the most utility of anyone acquired, since he can play down in the lineup and still provide offense - but can move up if injury requires it.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby KG on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:42 pm

This past deadline was an anomaly. Shero had tons of cap space and he didn't want to waste it obviously. That said, I wonder what was the last cup winning team to make a trade deadline blockbuster deal was? Most cup winning teams just tinker at the deadline. Pens added Guerin in 09. Hawks added Handzus this year.

This past deadline won't happen again for the Pens as cap space has come and gone....
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby pcm on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:11 pm

Morrow was one of the Pen's best forwards from deadline to defeat vs. Bruins. He filled his role to a T, whether contributing on an offensive line (w/ Jokinen-Bennett) in a purely checking role (w/ Sutter-Cooke) or making a difference from the 4th line. That he never got a chance to be a net presence with Malkin is a testament to Blysma's failings this past playoffs.

But whatever. Those saying he "sucked" or contributed little because he slowed the team down, I think are just making stabs in the dark. With reasoning like "The Isles exposed this team with speed. Therefore, the Pens are too slow... Morrow is slow, therefore he sucks."

Morrow was exactly what this team was missing the year before against the Flyers, and the year before that against the Lightning (with Cooke out). And it looks like they're going to be missing it in a big way again this year, unless some changes to the roster happen.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby KG on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:06 pm

pcm wrote:Morrow was one of the Pen's best forwards from deadline to defeat vs. Bruins. He filled his role to a T, whether contributing on an offensive line (w/ Jokinen-Bennett) in a purely checking role (w/ Sutter-Cooke) or making a difference from the 4th line. That he never got a chance to be a net presence with Malkin is a testament to Blysma's failings this past playoffs.

But whatever. Those saying he "sucked" or contributed little because he slowed the team down, I think are just making stabs in the dark. With reasoning like "The Isles exposed this team with speed. Therefore, the Pens are too slow... Morrow is slow, therefore he sucks."

Morrow was exactly what this team was missing the year before against the Flyers, and the year before that against the Lightning (with Cooke out). And it looks like they're going to be missing it in a big way again this year, unless some changes to the roster happen.


Good post. I agree. The lack of speed Morrow brings is not the problem. The team can't all be speed demons. Every player serves a role and purpose. You need grit to win in the playoffs. That said, you cant have your grinders out there in bad matchups, which is where coaching comes in to play. Last years playoff loss was more on Byslma then the composition of the roster...IMO
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby shmenguin on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:38 pm

pcm wrote:Morrow was one of the Pen's best forwards from deadline to defeat vs. Bruins. He filled his role to a T, whether contributing on an offensive line (w/ Jokinen-Bennett) in a purely checking role (w/ Sutter-Cooke) or making a difference from the 4th line. That he never got a chance to be a net presence with Malkin is a testament to Blysma's failings this past playoffs.


he was good with bennett and jokinen. he wasn't good at any other time. not his fault, necessarily, when he's playing with our 4th line scrub squad or with sutter, the 3rd d-man. but it's disingenuous to say he was as good as you're portraying.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby pcm on Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:55 pm

Morrow was right up there with Cooke's defensive Corsi and hit #'s. He did exactly what was expected of him in that role. He's not going to contribute offensively playing with Sutter and Vitale as his centers.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby Froggy on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:02 am

pcm wrote:Morrow was right up there with Cooke's defensive Corsi and hit #'s. He did exactly what was expected of him in that role. He's not going to contribute offensively playing with Sutter and Vitale as his centers.

and he's not going to play top 6 with bennett, neal, kunitz, and dupuis all ahead of him on the depth chart. so those would be his centers... either sutter or vitale. He'd be a luxury to have as a 3rd liner.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby no name on Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:21 am

Morrow does add a ton of character and experience to the lineup as well as alot of grit. Morrow also is a perfect fit for a 3rd line role going out there and bangin around. Also he looked like he could contribute on a top 2 line when he was here.

Almost all i said bout Morrow can be said about Jokinen except for the Character and grit. Joki is also 4 years younger and takes up alot less cap space....

I would rather have Morrow but i understand why we have Joki instead.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby shoeshine boy on Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:25 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
Rylan wrote:How is not signing Murray a mistake? He was not very good in the playoffs and with the signing of Scuds he was expendable anyways.


You do realize he was playing with a split kneecap, right? It's one thing to play with bruises, pulled muscles or shoulder problems. A split kneecap is pretty terrible to play on.


I think you confused Murray with Morrow. MORROW played with the split kneecap not Murray.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:39 am

Not directed at your post but a lot if this sentiment in general: My thing is what can we do at the deadline?

Even if we trade Nisky, we need to fill that spot most likely. Leaving us with very little cap room for an even below average deadline pick up.


I haven't looked at this in a while, but I believe moving Niskanen would give them a little more than $1 million in cap space to start the season. Not a lot now, but by the deadline that would be prorated to around $5 million which is more than enough to bring in a quality player. They've already got Niskanen's replacement on board in Despres which is why Niskanen seems to be expendable.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:40 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
Rylan wrote:How is not signing Murray a mistake? He was not very good in the playoffs and with the signing of Scuds he was expendable anyways.


You do realize he was playing with a split kneecap, right? It's one thing to play with bruises, pulled muscles or shoulder problems. A split kneecap is pretty terrible to play on.


I have no experience playing with that type of injury but I don't think it's necessarily any different than those other injuries. It could just be a matter of pain tolerance, it probably didn't limit him functionally at all if it was even an option for him to be playing with that injury. Just like when guys play with broken feet or whatever.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:01 am

Henry Hank wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
Rylan wrote:How is not signing Murray a mistake? He was not very good in the playoffs and with the signing of Scuds he was expendable anyways.


You do realize he was playing with a split kneecap, right? It's one thing to play with bruises, pulled muscles or shoulder problems. A split kneecap is pretty terrible to play on.


I have no experience playing with that type of injury but I don't think it's necessarily any different than those other injuries. It could just be a matter of pain tolerance, it probably didn't limit him functionally at all if it was even an option for him to be playing with that injury. Just like when guys play with broken feet or whatever.


You lose more than a step. Just think of ANY knee injury you ever had and how it felt putting weight on it. A split kneecap may not be a career-ending injury, but playing with that injury is more than just a matter of pain tolerance.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:01 am

shoeshine boy wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
Rylan wrote:How is not signing Murray a mistake? He was not very good in the playoffs and with the signing of Scuds he was expendable anyways.


You do realize he was playing with a split kneecap, right? It's one thing to play with bruises, pulled muscles or shoulder problems. A split kneecap is pretty terrible to play on.


I think you confused Murray with Morrow. MORROW played with the split kneecap not Murray.


I think YOU are confused. This whole thread is about MORROW, not MURRAY.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby Froggy on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:37 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
shoeshine boy wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
Rylan wrote:How is not signing Murray a mistake? He was not very good in the playoffs and with the signing of Scuds he was expendable anyways.


You do realize he was playing with a split kneecap, right? It's one thing to play with bruises, pulled muscles or shoulder problems. A split kneecap is pretty terrible to play on.


I think you confused Murray with Morrow. MORROW played with the split kneecap not Murray.


I think YOU are confused. This whole thread is about MORROW, not MURRAY.

and someone said that not resigning murray was a bigger mistake, to which rylan replied that murray was expendable, to which you got confused and thought he was talking about morrow. look closer.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby Rylan on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:37 am

Froggy wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
shoeshine boy wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
Rylan wrote:How is not signing Murray a mistake? He was not very good in the playoffs and with the signing of Scuds he was expendable anyways.


You do realize he was playing with a split kneecap, right? It's one thing to play with bruises, pulled muscles or shoulder problems. A split kneecap is pretty terrible to play on.


I think you confused Murray with Morrow. MORROW played with the split kneecap not Murray.


I think YOU are confused. This whole thread is about MORROW, not MURRAY.

and someone said that not resigning murray was a bigger mistake, to which rylan replied that murray was expendable, to which you got confused and thought he was talking about morrow. look closer.


Yep. Went off on a tangent without quoting the person I wanted to make my reply.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby IntangibleBeer on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:59 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:The moves he made were great and I like Jokinen as a Penguin. And yes, none were the reason before the Boston disgrace.

However, Jokinen doesn't address any real need of the Penguins, Morrow does. Especially with Cooke's departure, this team is going to lack a lot of toughness. Tough players will be #1 on the priority list come the deadline now.

Morrow is a type of power forward we have really not had since the early 90's. Morrow is a freight train on the ice and can chip in goals.


You're thinking Tocchet-like, aren't you? I agree. Morrow's play reminded me very much of Rick Tocchet. :thumb:

And I am also very concerned with the loss of Cooke and Kennedy. Kennedy's return to the line-up against NYI made a real difference, probably keeping the Pens from falling off the tightrope. This trend of shedding grit reminds me of the way the 1992 team got softer and never won another cup. I wonder who is going to replace forecheckers like Cooke and Kennedy? Or on the PK?

I completely agree - grit will be the #1 priority at the trade deadline. :thumb:
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby tfrizz on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:03 pm

It'sagreatdayforhockey! wrote:If we are talking about non-resigning mistakes, I'd put Murray above Morrow at what he signed for. But both are in the luxury we can't afford boat.


http://www.capgeek.com/penguins/

Yup! Pens are over the cap by ~$1.1-million as is. They're going to have to move either Niskanen or Orpik in order to get under the cap, unless they only go with 12 F and/or 6 D (ie: healthy scratches). It'll be even more fun when Malkin & Letang start costing an additional $4.5-million in the 2014-15 season.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby tfrizz on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:05 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:Would have targeted Morrow over Dags. Really liked him on the 3rd line and spot duty on the 2nd.


You probably wouldn't have got Morrow at league minimum ($550k) like they did with D'Agostini, though.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby columbia on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:07 pm

D'Agostini making the cut is not a given.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby tfrizz on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:08 pm

The Snapshot wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Am i the only one who watched morrow play last year? He sucked with the stars and continued sucking with the pens. Getting him was dumb at the time and in retrospect, and bringig him back would be equally dumb. He is too slow to play on the penguins.


No because he had a cool one liner to Suban from the penalty box. He earned Pittsburgh folk status just like Crankshaft with a cool nickname.

I agree and actually think that with most of our pickups. Production be damned including all being basically cut to as few minutes as possible or even benched in the playoffs.


At the deadline, there were national analysts who pointed out that none of the Pens acquisitions made the team faster. They all put up points down the stretch or in Murray's case added physicality - but in retrospect they were ALL too slow. That included Iginla.

The Bruins may be a better fit for him. The Pens top 6 is pretty darn good, and I'd prefer Bennett getting heavy minutes all year as opposed to seeing Iginla getting them

Morrow was good down the stretch - but having a cracked kneecap only adds to the concern that he cannot stay healthy at this point in his career.

Murray reminded me of King Kong on the Empire State Building in the playoffs, swatting at faster, smaller guys. I don't think he was the answer. Scuderi will not lay people out, but he will do his job in front of the net.

Jokinen provides the most utility of anyone acquired, since he can play down in the lineup and still provide offense - but can move up if injury requires it.


Never thought I'd see the day someone says this, but... Scuderi is a big upgrade in terms of mobility. I wasn't disappointed with Murray because I knew what to expect; and while Scuderi isn't the greatest skater out there, he's mobile enough to maintain his position well.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby tfrizz on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:14 pm

IntangibleBeer wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:The moves he made were great and I like Jokinen as a Penguin. And yes, none were the reason before the Boston disgrace.

However, Jokinen doesn't address any real need of the Penguins, Morrow does. Especially with Cooke's departure, this team is going to lack a lot of toughness. Tough players will be #1 on the priority list come the deadline now.

Morrow is a type of power forward we have really not had since the early 90's. Morrow is a freight train on the ice and can chip in goals.


You're thinking Tocchet-like, aren't you? I agree. Morrow's play reminded me very much of Rick Tocchet. :thumb:

And I am also very concerned with the loss of Cooke and Kennedy. Kennedy's return to the line-up against NYI made a real difference, probably keeping the Pens from falling off the tightrope. This trend of shedding grit reminds me of the way the 1992 team got softer and never won another cup. I wonder who is going to replace forecheckers like Cooke and Kennedy? Or on the PK?

I completely agree - grit will be the #1 priority at the trade deadline. :thumb:


I'm more concerned about losing Cooke than Kennedy. He brings a lot more to the lineup than TK, but I can't blame him for cashing in on a big pay day.

As far as PKers go, it remains relatively unchanged. Of the 12 players to record at least 0:01 SH TOI in the playoffs, 10 are returning.

Craig Adams - 3:34
Pascal Dupuis - 2:57
Matt Cooke - 2:05
Brandon Sutter - 2:00
Tanner Glass - 1:14
Jussi Jokinen - 0:50
Brenden Morrow - 0:25
Sidney Crosby - 0:14
Joe Vitale - 0:13
Chris Kunitz - 0:05
Beau Bennett - 0:04
Evgent Malkin - 0:00 (0:09 total)
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:23 pm

tfrizz wrote:
It'sagreatdayforhockey! wrote:If we are talking about non-resigning mistakes, I'd put Murray above Morrow at what he signed for. But both are in the luxury we can't afford boat.


http://www.capgeek.com/penguins/

Yup! Pens are over the cap by ~$1.1-million as is. They're going to have to move either Niskanen or Orpik in order to get under the cap, unless they only go with 12 F and/or 6 D (ie: healthy scratches). It'll be even more fun when Malkin & Letang start costing an additional $4.5-million in the 2014-15 season.


I can't imagine they'd move Orpik over Niskanen, but I who knows now-a-days.

I think Murray is also a mistake to let go over other players. Having a dman that can effectively clear the crease is very important.

I'd trade Nisakanen, Jokinen and Glass in order to have kept Morrow and Murray. Not sure if that math would work because I have no clue what Morrow is seeking.

I think adding Scuderi is HUGE, but I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy about our line-up next season. I love that Bennett will likely be a regular in the line-up and I love the addition of Scuderi.

What do I not love? We've lost grit in Morrow, crease-clearing ability in Murray and speed in Kennedy. I wasn't the biggest fan of Kennedy and felt he was over-priced for what he brings, but we're losing speed none-the-less and haven't replaced it.

Jokinen will be a solid player if utilized properly and with Bylsma that's a big IF. Bennett has definitely brought a well-rounded game, he can score, carry the puck well and even throw the body when necessary.

I wouldn't feel so bad about these players walking if Shero replaced these intangibles, but he hasn't...yet
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby Pitts on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:29 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Am i the only one who watched morrow play last year? He sucked with the stars and continued sucking with the pens. Getting him was dumb at the time and in retrospect, and bringig him back would be equally dumb. He is too slow to play on the penguins.

No. I was excited for the signing, but it was apparent after watching him that the game has passed him by. I remember commenting during the season about how much he could not receive a pass, was a step behind in moving the puck or getting the shot off and was always pinching up ice so he wouldn't be left behind in transition.

I really don't see the value in bringing Morrow back. He'd be nothing more than Craig Adams at this point.
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Re: Not Re-signing Morrow a HUGE mistake

Postby pcm on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:41 pm

Jokinen will be a solid player in the regular season. He was weak and ineffective in the playoffs. I don't really care about losing regular season points, as this team should not be fighting for a playoff birth.

Vitale should take Cooke's PK time. Jeffrey could also be groomed for PK duty, as he saw plenty of time in the AHL.

The identity of the 3rd line will be one of the most interesting developing aspects this season. Will Blysma continue to use a purely shutdown 3rd line? Or will he give Sutter more offensive leeway, with guys like D'Agostino, Jeffrey, Jokinen, Bennett as his potential linemates?
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