Clearing cap space?

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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:24 pm

Welcome back Jim.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:36 pm

pcm wrote:Jokinen is an option as well, as Jeffrey can fill his role for @ 25% the salary.


I honestly don't see Jokinen as an option. He's going to fill an important role on this team this year.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:37 pm

count2infinity wrote:whoa... Jim is back 3 and a half years or so later.

Spoiler:
Image


That must have been a hell of a breakfast stout.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
pcm wrote:Jokinen is an option as well, as Jeffrey can fill his role for @ 25% the salary.


I honestly don't see Jokinen as an option. He's going to fill an important role on this team this year.


At least, one that Jeffrey won't be able to/can't fill.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Gaucho on Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:35 pm

Sam's Drunk Dog wrote:Welcome back Jim.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Gaucho on Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:36 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
count2infinity wrote:whoa... Jim is back 3 and a half years or so later.

Spoiler:
Image


That must have been a hell of a breakfast stout.


:fist:
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sjnhiils on Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:07 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Trading Orpik isn't happening. The easiest way to go (if someone had to be traded) would be Niskanen and Glass, in that order.


Agreed.

You also see Despres in the minors to save $$ at first. I can't see them sending down Bennett since they are bereft of good wingers on the NHL roster.

Martin and Orpik picked right up from last year and let Datsyuk beat them 1 on 2 for Detroit's 4th goal. Orpik once again had his back to the play. At least Niskanen has a hard shot and can play the power play. With Letang and Scuderi being signed, the pens cannot afford the luxury of Orpik and his $3.75 million salary
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:10 pm

Oh my god, someone did something wrong once in a preseason game! :scared: :scared: :scared:

If you think Niskanen is better than both Orpik and Martin... I don't have a response to that either. My brain can't fathom what would make you think that.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sjnhiils on Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:21 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Oh my god, someone did something wrong once in a preseason game! :scared: :scared: :scared:

If you think Niskanen is better than both Orpik and Martin... I don't have a response to that either. My brain can't fathom what would make you think that.


Orpik has been playing like that for the last few years. Do Martin and Orpik have a better shot than Niskanen? Does Orpik play on the power play like Niskanen? If the Penguins were so set on trading Niskanen they would have done it by now. I guess you know more than them. I'm having a hard time figuring out your thinking as well
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:23 pm

I... :face:

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

This has to be a troll.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Gaucho on Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:28 pm

I concur.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sjnhiils on Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:07 pm

MRandall25 wrote:I... :face:

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

This has to be a troll.

I guess that is what you say when you have no comeback. You and Gaucho can "concur" all you want about your supposed hockey knowledge. Done " trolling" with you
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:13 pm

No, I have a comeback. I'm just not going to waste my effort on someone who thinks having a "good shot" makes you a better defenseman than 2 Olympians.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sil on Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:16 pm

I don't think a trade not happening yet is any way to reinforce your opinion. It's hard to agree that Niskanen is a better player when you actually look at every facet of the game though. You can certainly have that opinion, but there's a reason why Orpik sees top-4 minutes and Niskanen does not.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sjnhiils on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:07 pm

MRandall25 wrote:No, I have a comeback. I'm just not going to waste my effort on someone who thinks having a "good shot" makes you a better defenseman than 2 Olympians.


Not just his shot but his abilility to control the blueline on the power play and the right handed shot he has on the off wing of it. Scuderi, Engelland and Dumoulin can all do what Orpik does, who replaces Niskanen? I never brought up the fact of who the better player was, I only stated how Orpik was not worth his money and that trading him would have less effect on the team as opposed to Niskanen. There is a difference. Since Orpik throws a "big hit" every now and then, I suppose you think he is worth his money and top four pairing. If orpik was such a shut down d-man, why did Shero feel the need to go out and get Scuderi?
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:09 pm

Because tbey only had 3 top 4 D.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby murphydump55 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:45 pm

columbia wrote:Because tbey only had 3 top 4 D.


that, and because Orpik is regressing and you can't really count on him game in and game out.

Some games he looks great, and other games he looks like Steve Poapst.

He's still a great skating defenseman, considering his size and strength.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:51 pm

sjnhiils wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:No, I have a comeback. I'm just not going to waste my effort on someone who thinks having a "good shot" makes you a better defenseman than 2 Olympians.


Not just his shot but his abilility to control the blueline on the power play and the right handed shot he has on the off wing of it. Scuderi, Engelland and Dumoulin can all do what Orpik does, who replaces Niskanen? I never brought up the fact of who the better player was, I only stated how Orpik was not worth his money and that trading him would have less effect on the team as opposed to Niskanen. There is a difference. Since Orpik throws a "big hit" every now and then, I suppose you think he is worth his money and top four pairing. If orpik was such a shut down d-man, why did Shero feel the need to go out and get Scuderi?


In fairness if that was your original point, yes it is that type of decision that definitely will come up a lot over the next few years. Not necessarily apples to apples on who is better but various reasons why to keep one player over the other.

I'm not really a big fan of Orpik. He seems to be caught out of position too much around the net, floating towards the top of the blueline too. And his physical play is overrated in my opinion and he is close to being overpaid. All of these trade guesses by us including me do not take into account the roster spot will be filled, so the savings are not as much. This is our team unless a big salary goes.

That being said even though I think his physical play isn't what his reputation says it is, with the makeup of this team I don't want any size or any physical play shipped out. Having Nisky, Despres and Engo/Burtozzo in the lineup at the same time frightens me.

So even though we would save a few bucks under the cap and possible be able to upgrade a lower line spot I think shipping Nisky out is the right thing. At least until Harrington is ready to grab 20+ real minutes.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:39 am

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
sjnhiils wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:No, I have a comeback. I'm just not going to waste my effort on someone who thinks having a "good shot" makes you a better defenseman than 2 Olympians.


Not just his shot but his abilility to control the blueline on the power play and the right handed shot he has on the off wing of it. Scuderi, Engelland and Dumoulin can all do what Orpik does, who replaces Niskanen? I never brought up the fact of who the better player was, I only stated how Orpik was not worth his money and that trading him would have less effect on the team as opposed to Niskanen. There is a difference. Since Orpik throws a "big hit" every now and then, I suppose you think he is worth his money and top four pairing. If orpik was such a shut down d-man, why did Shero feel the need to go out and get Scuderi?


In fairness if that was your original point, yes it is that type of decision that definitely will come up a lot over the next few years. Not necessarily apples to apples on who is better but various reasons why to keep one player over the other.

I'm not really a big fan of Orpik. He seems to be caught out of position too much around the net, floating towards the top of the blueline too. And his physical play is overrated in my opinion and he is close to being overpaid. All of these trade guesses by us including me do not take into account the roster spot will be filled, so the savings are not as much. This is our team unless a big salary goes.

That being said even though I think his physical play isn't what his reputation says it is, with the makeup of this team I don't want any size or any physical play shipped out. Having Nisky, Despres and Engo/Burtozzo in the lineup at the same time frightens me.

So even though we would save a few bucks under the cap and possible be able to upgrade a lower line spot I think shipping Nisky out is the right thing. At least until Harrington is ready to grab 20+ real minutes.

Good response. Thanks for backing up your argument in a reasonable manner without getting like some others on this board.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:23 am

I think Shero is going to wait until the urgency picks up from another team before making a move. No reason to be under the cap today. Whether its an injury, or another team realizing that a young guy they were depending on is just not ready yet, Shero can wait until something like that presents itself, then see who they want to move and who brings the best deal.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby no name on Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:36 am

MRandall25 wrote:I... :face:

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

This has to be a troll.


I think you might be wrong about this guy, I don't think he is a troll, i think he actually believes what he is saying makes sence.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Beveridge on Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:49 am

Sasha is one of a handful of players that can make 2 really good defenders look like Juniors at the same time. For the basis of the argument to come from that play, how can anyone take it seriously?

Paul Martin was one of the best defensemen in the league last year and Orpik had another solid year. If they "pick up where they left off last year" I'd be :thumb: with that.
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby sjnhiils on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:06 am

Beveridge wrote:Sasha is one of a handful of players that can make 2 really good defenders look like Juniors at the same time. For the basis of the argument to come from that play, how can anyone take it seriously?

Paul Martin was one of the best defensemen in the league last year and Orpik had another solid year. If they "pick up where they left off last year" I'd be :thumb: with that.

Referenced last year and then again said Orpik has been like that for the last few years. "Two really good defenders" and Orpik had "another solid year". If that is the case why haven't the Pens extended his contract yet? How can anyone take your assesment of Orpik seriously?
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby Crankshaft on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:11 am

sjnhiils wrote:
Beveridge wrote:Sasha is one of a handful of players that can make 2 really good defenders look like Juniors at the same time. For the basis of the argument to come from that play, how can anyone take it seriously?

Paul Martin was one of the best defensemen in the league last year and Orpik had another solid year. If they "pick up where they left off last year" I'd be :thumb: with that.

Referenced last year and then again said Orpik has been like that for the last few years. "Two really good defenders" and Orpik had "another solid year". If that is the case why haven't the Pens extended his contract yet? How can anyone take your assesment of Orpik seriously?


So, if I'm understanding what you're saying, because the Pens haven't extended his contract, he hasn't had a solid last few years and is no longer a top-4 defense man on this team?
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Re: Clearing cap space?

Postby GSdrums87 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:16 am

I'm monitoring just to see how much more far off this Orpik assessment can get.
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