Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby shmenguin on Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:38 pm

Pronger's injury has nothing to do with his age. Also, the flyers hate that he's been hurt. There is nothing shady about anything that's happened there.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:10 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:I don't believe our roster was or is as cup ready as others think.


the roster itself was stacked. not all the parts worked together, but on paper, this was a monster team.


Yeah, if the Pens roster wasn't "cup ready" then no one has had a "cup ready" roster since before the 04-05 lockout.


My only point is compared to other "contenders" our bottom 6 forward group, bottom 3 or even 4 defense depending in who was in including Nisky, Murray, Eaton, Bortuzso etc and our goalies would rank towards the bottom so I'm not ready to say this was the best NHL roster of the past 10 years - which is what I was replying too.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby shmenguin on Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:11 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:I don't believe our roster was or is as cup ready as others think.


the roster itself was stacked. not all the parts worked together, but on paper, this was a monster team.


Yeah, if the Pens roster wasn't "cup ready" then no one has had a "cup ready" roster since before the 04-05 lockout.


My only point is compared to other "contenders" our bottom 6 forward group, bottom 3 or even 4 defense depending in who was in including Nisky, Murray, Eaton, Bortuzso etc and our goalies would rank towards the bottom so I'm not ready to say this was the best NHL roster of the past 10 years - which is what I was replying too.


We had 12 good forwards. They were all just in the wrong spot. JJ, Bennett, Morrow on the 3rd. Cooke, Sutter, TK on the 4th. And then the top 6. That's a good lineup, but Sutter and Adams were protected, so it couldn't happen.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby pcm on Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:01 pm

Morrow, Sutter, Bennett, Jokinen, Cooke, Kennedy ~ There's no Jordan Staal in there. But we could have rolled two "3rd lines." Add in the fact that we already have two "1st lines," and that forward group should have been unstoppable. Instead, Blysma rolled two "4th lines," and he probably should have lost his job for it.

The only marginal holes on the roster were the #4 dman, and the absence of an "elite" goalie. Murray-Eaton/Engelland/Despres/Niskanen are just what you want for a bottom pairing. But one of those guys had to slide up to the #4 role. Vokoun played well enough to win. Losing to Boston had nothing to do with goaltending.

I just don't see a better roster in the league going back to the Avs with Forsberg, Sakic, Roy and Bourque. But they didn't win it the year they acquired Bourque... it took one more try.

Of course, this assessment is based on the belief that (1) Morrow and Iginla are not washed up, and (2) Bennett and Despres could have contributed along the likes of Saad and Krug... which I think the play of all 4 this year will demonstrate loudly and clearly.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:43 pm

pcm wrote:Morrow, Sutter, Bennett, Jokinen, Cooke, Kennedy ~ There's no Jordan Staal in there. But we could have rolled two "3rd lines." Add in the fact that we already have two "1st lines," and that forward group should have been unstoppable. Instead, Blysma rolled two "4th lines," and he probably should have lost his job for it.

The only marginal holes on the roster were the #4 dman, and the absence of an "elite" goalie. Murray-Eaton/Engelland/Despres/Niskanen are just what you want for a bottom pairing. But one of those guys had to slide up to the #4 role. Vokoun played well enough to win. Losing to Boston had nothing to do with goaltending.

I just don't see a better roster in the league going back to the Avs with Forsberg, Sakic, Roy and Bourque. But they didn't win it the year they acquired Bourque... it took one more try.

Of course, this assessment is based on the belief that (1) Morrow and Iginla are not washed up, and (2) Bennett and Despres could have contributed along the likes of Saad and Krug... which I think the play of all 4 this year will demonstrate loudly and clearly.


Meh, this year wont mean much sans Iginla (and i dont really blame that entire mess solely on HCDB as Crosby clearly prefers Dupius and Neal is much better at RW) as Bennett and Despres were pretty overwhelmed at points during the regular season and in the playoffs. Morrow was a shell of himself and banged up all last year even before he got here.

Those 5 dmen you listed were all complete mud in the playoffs, awful in fact when pressured at all.

I just don't see what everyone else sees from half our roster. Especialky when compared to other contenders and it gets worse this season. Names like Morrow and Sutter don't make it stacked. A few posts above with a line of Morrow/Jussi/Bennett would be a treat to watch.....if you were a fan of the other team. Ugh.

Anyways, like I said I agree to disagree but doesn't mean I am not scared this will haunt us this year.

Over and out.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby columbia on Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:18 am

Of all the injury news coming Saturday from the Penguins -- and like a lot of days this season, there was quite a bit -- perhaps the most intriguing involved goaltender Tomas Vokoun.

Vokoun had a surgical procedure to dissolve a blood clot in his pelvis in training camp and in late September was put on a regimen of blood-thinners.

He was to be re-evaluated after three months to see if doctors might take him off of the medication, which precludes Vokoun from facing shots or being hit.

"He has passed the three-month [time]," coach Dan Bylsma said. "He's still seeing the doctor regularly and is still on blood-thinners."

That means the window for a best-case scenario for Vokoun has closed. He is living with his family in Florida and said in a Penguins game there in late November that if he was not cleared to quit the medication at the three-month mark and it stretched out to what would seem to be the maximum of six months, he doubted he could reach reasonable game sharpness to be ready for the playoffs.

The Penguins have gotten solid backup goaltending from rookie Jeff Zatkoff, and there has been speculation that Vokoun, 37, might retire.

Through a spokesperson, Penguins general manager Ray Shero said there was no set time frame for further Vokoun news.


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... z2pWfAZNpq


Well, I hope they have a Vokoun night at the end of season.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby CERV96 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:34 am

shmenguin wrote:Pronger's injury has nothing to do with his age. Also, the flyers hate that he's been hurt. There is nothing shady about anything that's happened there.


Again, missing the point but whatever. This was 3 months ago.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:14 am

Its exactly the point and you were wrong then and are wrong now. If you would prefer that the player be playing than out of the lineup, you arent abusing a loophole.

Edit: i cant type on my phone.
Last edited by Idoit40fans on Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby npv708 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:27 am

columbia wrote:
Of all the injury news coming Saturday from the Penguins -- and like a lot of days this season, there was quite a bit -- perhaps the most intriguing involved goaltender Tomas Vokoun.

Vokoun had a surgical procedure to dissolve a blood clot in his pelvis in training camp and in late September was put on a regimen of blood-thinners.

He was to be re-evaluated after three months to see if doctors might take him off of the medication, which precludes Vokoun from facing shots or being hit.

"He has passed the three-month [time]," coach Dan Bylsma said. "He's still seeing the doctor regularly and is still on blood-thinners."

That means the window for a best-case scenario for Vokoun has closed. He is living with his family in Florida and said in a Penguins game there in late November that if he was not cleared to quit the medication at the three-month mark and it stretched out to what would seem to be the maximum of six months, he doubted he could reach reasonable game sharpness to be ready for the playoffs.

The Penguins have gotten solid backup goaltending from rookie Jeff Zatkoff, and there has been speculation that Vokoun, 37, might retire.

Through a spokesperson, Penguins general manager Ray Shero said there was no set time frame for further Vokoun news.


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... z2pWfAZNpq


Well, I hope they have a Vokoun night at the end of season.


I agree. Vokoun was a huge part of this team getting to the ECF last year and is a great guy off-the-ice.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby Great58 on Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:01 pm

How are players on LTIR paid? By the club, or by an insurance policy purchased by the club?
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby JS© on Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:23 pm

I believe it's by insurance.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby CERV96 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:20 am

Idoit40fans wrote:Its exactly the point and you were wrong then and are wrong now. If you would prefer that the player be playing than out of the lineup, you arent abusing a loophole.

Edit: i cant type on my phone.


Whatever man.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby mikey287 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:22 am

JS© wrote:I believe it's by insurance.


I'm not sure I can answer the question off hand because it varies. Not all players are insured. Further, even players that are insured cannot be insured for some things...(ex. Sidney Crosby's head, Justin Williams' knee, etc.) Teams only insure about 6 or 7 of their contracts, to the best of my knowledge...
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby tfrizz on Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:55 am

mikey287 wrote:
JS© wrote:I believe it's by insurance.


I'm not sure I can answer the question off hand because it varies. Not all players are insured. Further, even players that are insured cannot be insured for some things...(ex. Sidney Crosby's head, Justin Williams' knee, etc.) Teams only insure about 6 or 7 of their contracts, to the best of my knowledge...


And that varies, too. While Crosby wouldn't be insured against head injuries at the time being, if he can get a couple seasons free of injury they'll be able to start picking up short-term coverage again.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby Great58 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:04 am

mikey287 wrote:
JS© wrote:I believe it's by insurance.


I'm not sure I can answer the question off hand because it varies. Not all players are insured. Further, even players that are insured cannot be insured for some things...(ex. Sidney Crosby's head, Justin Williams' knee, etc.) Teams only insure about 6 or 7 of their contracts, to the best of my knowledge...

In the context of whether or not the Flyers handling of Pronger is an end-around of the CBA, it matters (to me) whether or not the Flyers have an advantage over other clubs in their ability to cover his salary while keeping him on LTIR. I understand the argument that they would want him to play, so it's not just a loophole they are taking advantage of by taking his salary off the cap hit by keeping him on LTIR rather than having him retire. But if the Floridas and Phoenix's of the league wouldn't be able to do this when his career is clearly over (and not go into further financial ruin), it seems unfair that the Comcast money the Flyers have access to allows them to pull this off, and therefore a loophole. Then again, I guess a team can't FORCE an injured player to retire, so, IDK.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby columbia on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:10 am

Florida or Phoenix would just further cut their payroll.
The Flyers aren't cheating, but it's a sign of the lack of financial equality around the league.....which isn't new.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby Great58 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:15 am

columbia wrote:Florida or Phoenix would just further cut their payroll.
The Flyers aren't cheating, but it's a sign of the lack of financial equality around the league.....which isn't new.

No, the Flyers aren't cheating, but if it's a practice that only some of the teams could afford to do, it's a problem for the competitiveness of the league.
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:33 am

One, Pronger still counts fully during the offseason as there is no IR in the offseason. Two, I don't mind if some teams are able to flex a little more muscle if they have it. As long as it's not $80 million payrolls vs. $16 million payrolls. I don't have a big problem with that actually.

Incidentally, Pronger might end up in the HHOF sooner than most people expect...the feeling is, that this time isn't "counting" for real with him...it's understood that he's retired already...but retired due to injury...which really isn't unfair because he is done and has moved on to another role in the organization it appears...
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby Great58 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:33 am

mikey287 wrote:One, Pronger still counts fully during the offseason as there is no IR in the offseason.


I'm not sure I understand the issue, or the implications. So the Flyers have to end traing cap with Pronger's cap hit on the books, only spending to the limit WITH his contract aboard, until Day #1 of the season when they can move it to LTIR? Only then can then fill the "void" and add salary over the cap to make up for his absence? THey can't go over the cap what $X the Pronger's hit is all summer, knowing that he won't play in October?
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Re: Vokoun out indefinitely: blood clot

Postby Beveridge on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:53 am

Pronger's cap hit counts during the summer but you can be 10% over during the offseason. Must be cap compliant when preseason ends (he gets put on LTIR)

It really doesn't effect them in any meaningful way.
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