Fleury is done

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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:23 am

Rylan wrote:I still love the Pittsburgh idea that the former coach was always the better coach and any replacement only won because of said former coach.

Pirates are only successful because of John Russell


I love that you think thats something that happens consistently anywhere.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby tfrizz on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:23 am

meow wrote:They had the second best goal differential in the league last year. That doesn't exactly scream struggle in the defensive zone.


There's a huge difference in preparation and strategy between regular season and playoffs. In the regular season, a coach might identify some strengths and weaknesses and have his players adjust accordingly; in the playoffs, coaches will draw up entirely different game plans built around attacking/defending those strengths and weaknesses.

Just look back at the Islanders series and Capuano actually stating that their coaching staff identified a weakness with the Pens - defense being weak on puck retrieval - and completely changing their forechecking strategy to exploit it. Bylsma, on the other hand, seems to be of the mindset that the only change ever needed is to "play our system"; tweaks and adjustments seem to only come as a last resort, when they should be at the top of the list when it comes to preparing for a playoff series.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Rylan on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:26 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Rylan wrote:I still love the Pittsburgh idea that the former coach was always the better coach and any replacement only won because of said former coach.

Pirates are only successful because of John Russell


I love that you think thats something that happens consistently anywhere.


Kidding? All I ever hear when talking to fans of the Pittsburgh teams is that its the former coach's team/strategy that won. And the new coach rode the coat tails. I don't talk to fans of other teams as much and as such I limited the scope of my sentence to what I know. I then used hyperbole because I was bored and felt like making fun of John Russell.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby meow on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:35 am

SolidSnake wrote:
meow wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:The series against the Bruins was hilarious the ENTIRE league just came off a what 4-5 month lockout? and the Pens are struggling against the Bruins and Byslma is giving optional practices and film day because there's "nothing to work on" and the team was "tired" LOL WAT

Push the team in practice that is obviously tired. That's a great coaching strategy. Are you Don Cherry? The 1970's called and wants their coaching strategy back. It's a new league now, get used to it.

Sounds good to me. Why even bother practicing the rest of the season then? The team will get to their game.

"The team will get to their game." Do you know what that means?
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Pitt87 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:36 am

He wasn't even in ESPN's top 25. How can you trust someone like that? :pop:
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby mikey287 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:36 am

Hmmm...the thread seems to waver back and forth from "interesting" to "tedious"

Some interesting concepts and trends identified. Then the same old "grass is always greener" stuff with Ryan Miller, Jonathan Bernier, others. Miller (and Fleury, for that matter) may need a change of scenery but he has been awful recently. Bernier - who I've been a big fan of since he was a teenager - hasn't done anything of note nor did we really have the parts LA wanted (unless you wanted to part with Beau, even then, they needed to get a cheap backup too and we don't have that).

Strangely dismissed in this and other threads the impact of assistant coaches and their ability to provide new perspective. Extremely valuable, especially for someone with Jacques Martin's experience as a coach at multiple levels in multiple eras and as an executive.

Impact of goaltender in modern defending is not fully understood. Conversely, the impact of the goaltender on an offensive team has different implications - as we've seen.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Beveridge on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:38 am

mikey287 wrote:Hmmm...the thread seems to waver back and forth from "interesting" to "tedious"

Some interesting concepts and trends identified. Then the same old "grass is always greener" stuff with Ryan Miller, Jonathan Bernier, others. Miller (and Fleury, for that matter) may need a change of scenery but he has been awful recently. Bernier - who I've been a big fan of since he was a teenager - hasn't done anything of note nor did we really have the parts LA wanted (unless you wanted to part with Beau, even then, they needed to get a cheap backup too and we don't have that).

Strangely dismissed in this and other threads the impact of assistant coaches and their ability to provide new perspective. Extremely valuable, especially for someone with Jacques Martin's experience as a coach at multiple levels in multiple eras and as an executive.

Impact of goaltender in modern defending is not fully understood. Conversely, the impact of the goaltender on an offensive team has different implications - as we've seen.



Get reason and sanity out of here. What are you trying to do?
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby meow on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:42 am

mikey, get that rational thought out of here. you are killing the mood.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Crankshaft on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:46 am

hey mikey - get your reason out of here!
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:49 am

Something about reason not belonging here.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby since1970 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:52 am

if there were 3 things I could do to his game it would be, quieter in the crease, better positionally, and think the game better
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Rylan on Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:54 am

since1970 wrote:if there were 3 things I could do to his game it would be, quieter in the crease, better positionally, and think the game better


Eh positioning would be pretty much all 3 of those things.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby skullman80 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:12 pm

I'd like Fleury to be able to stop pucks when it matters in the playoffs.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby since1970 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:19 pm

not really, by quieter I meant after he makes a save and the puck drops to his feet. He has a tendency to go spastic. It seems to me, at least I see more than I should, pucks being poked at turning into goals The plays behind the net and rebound control (when possible) fall under thinking the game better for me, or maybe game awareness is a better description.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Jim on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:28 pm

Pavel Bure wrote:It's not what other options are there it's what other options were there. Namely Bernier and Schnieder were available.


The peoblem with the Pens going after those two is that those teams were not looking to take a "starter" goalie back. Flueiry would have needed to have been moved and neither team would have wanted him.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby tfrizz on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:30 pm

Jim wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:It's not what other options are there it's what other options were there. Namely Bernier and Schnieder were available.


The peoblem with the Pens going after those two is that those teams were not looking to take a "starter" goalie back. Flueiry would have needed to have been moved and neither team would have wanted him.


The other hurdle in moving Fleury is the clauses (NTC and NMC) in his contract. Even if Shero wants to move him, his options are likely non-existent without Fleury agreeing to the trade (or pre-approving the team).
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby pens_CT on Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:43 pm

tfrizz wrote:
Jim wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:It's not what other options are there it's what other options were there. Namely Bernier and Schnieder were available.


The peoblem with the Pens going after those two is that those teams were not looking to take a "starter" goalie back. Flueiry would have needed to have been moved and neither team would have wanted him.


The other hurdle in moving Fleury is the clauses (NTC and NMC) in his contract. Even if Shero wants to move him, his options are likely non-existent without Fleury agreeing to the trade (or pre-approving the team).

Even without the NMC/NTC clause Shero's trade options are limited. How many teams need or want a supposed number one goalie with a 5 mil cap hit?
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Jim on Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:16 pm

tfrizz wrote:The other hurdle in moving Fleury is the clauses (NTC and NMC) in his contract. Even if Shero wants to move him, his options are likely non-existent without Fleury agreeing to the trade (or pre-approving the team).


I believe that his NTC is just giving a list of team he will go to, or not go to. It is not a full NTC but I am unsure of the specifics like the # of teams on the list.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby SolidSnake on Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:20 pm

Let's stay the course!
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:24 pm

Jim wrote:
tfrizz wrote:The other hurdle in moving Fleury is the clauses (NTC and NMC) in his contract. Even if Shero wants to move him, his options are likely non-existent without Fleury agreeing to the trade (or pre-approving the team).


I believe that his NTC is just giving a list of team he will go to, or not go to. It is not a full NTC but I am unsure of the specifics like the # of teams on the list.


From capgeek:

CLAUSES: Limited NMC (starting July 1, 2010, only prevents being placed on waivers); Limited NTC (can designate a list of teams he will accept a trade to)
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby tfrizz on Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:31 pm

Jim wrote:
tfrizz wrote:The other hurdle in moving Fleury is the clauses (NTC and NMC) in his contract. Even if Shero wants to move him, his options are likely non-existent without Fleury agreeing to the trade (or pre-approving the team).


I believe that his NTC is just giving a list of team he will go to, or not go to. It is not a full NTC but I am unsure of the specifics like the # of teams on the list.


That's correct, but given the number of teams that'd actually be interested in him (5? maybe?) it's effectively a full NTC since he could just list all the teams that have absolutely no interest in him as "will accept trade to".
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:57 pm

These hurdles would be meaningless depending on when said goalie was acquired. Nothing preventing a buyout.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby tfrizz on Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:09 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:These hurdles would be meaningless depending on when said goalie was acquired. Nothing preventing a buyout.


True. The only thing really preventing a buyout is the lack of perceivable available replacements. Shero alluded to that in his "Fleury wins us 40 games" spiel... the biggest reason he's still around is because there's no real upgrade available.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby Jim on Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:15 pm

MRandall25 wrote:From capgeek:

CLAUSES: Limited NMC (starting July 1, 2010, only prevents being placed on waivers); Limited NTC (can designate a list of teams he will accept a trade to)


I would think that the actual clause would have a number of teams associated with it.


tfrizz wrote:That's correct, but given the number of teams that'd actually be interested in him (5? maybe?) it's effectively a full NTC since he could just list all the teams that have absolutely no interest in him as "will accept trade to".


That would be an uber-bastard move and only support the need for him to be removed from the team.
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Re: Fleury is done

Postby columbia on Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:16 pm

WHy would he retire now (if that were medically warranted)? He has a paycheck to collect for the rest of the season.
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