the Jacques Martin effect?

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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Malkamaniac on Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:40 pm

I know a guy who said Bylsma isn't even coaching. He's just showing up and hanging out with the players every day. It's a pretty credible source.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Gaucho on Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:10 pm

That's funny, I hear the players aren't practicing either.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:44 pm

Gaucho wrote:That's funny, I hear the players aren't practicing either.

I heard that their practices just consist of playing ice wiffle-ball :pop:
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby pekkasteele on Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:01 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Gaucho wrote:That's funny, I hear the players aren't practicing either.

I heard that their practices just consist of playing ice wiffle-ball :pop:


I heard it was, NHL14 on playstation, Bylsma manages the line changes, and then the players takes turns with the controls.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby no name on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:22 am

You don't bring in a guy like Jacques Martin without a purpose. I think the players wouldn't respond if they just hired him and made him coach. You would have the Therian effect at play. But if you have Jacques give Dan the game plan and Dan gives it to the players it will come off alot better.

I honestly think Dan is just a figure head for Jacques as coach.

Dan should of been fired, this was the only way for him to keep his job.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Gaucho on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:42 am

Why not simply fire DB then instead of extending his contract? I must've missed something, because for some reason I thought hiring assistant coaches is fairly common in sports.

Image
Last edited by Gaucho on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:44 am

Gaucho wrote:Why not simply fire DB then instead of extending his contract?


I would like an answer to this question as well. I've wanted to know that answer since before Martin was in the picture. :scared:
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Gaucho on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:54 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Why not simply fire DB then instead of extending his contract?


I would like an answer to this question as well. I've wanted to know that answer since before Martin was in the picture. :scared:


I get that and it's a fair point. But since they did extend DB's contract, I'll just play dumb and assume that they never had the intention of firing him. I'm also going to assume that they hired an assistant coach to, well, assist him. They certainly had their reasons to bring in an additional and experienced hockey mind, and so far it looks like a smart decision.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby SolidSnake on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:56 am

Gaucho wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Why not simply fire DB then instead of extending his contract?


I would like an answer to this question as well. I've wanted to know that answer since before Martin was in the picture. :scared:


I get that and it's a fair point. But since they did extend DB's contract, I'll just play dumb and assume that they never had the intention of firing him. I'm also going to assume that they hired an assistant coach to, well, assist him. They certainly had their reasons to bring in an additional and experienced hockey mind, and so far it looks like a smart decision.

I think if they would fire DB then Craig Adams would take over.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:59 am

Gaucho wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Why not simply fire DB then instead of extending his contract?


I would like an answer to this question as well. I've wanted to know that answer since before Martin was in the picture. :scared:


I get that and it's a fair point. But since they did extend DB's contract, I'll just play dumb and assume that they never had the intention of firing him. I'm also going to assume that they hired an assistant coach to, well, assist him. They certainly had their reasons to bring in an additional and experienced hockey mind, and so far it looks like a smart decision.


I assume the same. They hired Martin to be an assistant, perhaps with the idea that they had a replacement in place that would truly shake the style up for a jumpstart if things went horribly.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:11 am

I'm going to put this quote up again - because I feel it's puts the whole issue of the recent playoff performances of the Pittsburgh Penguins into focus - and 100% shows the reason Martin was brought in.

Reirden witnessed it on Day 1 of camp during a film session. Martin, reputable for his defensive acumen, did not hesitate to ask a specific question about changes Reirden had implemented to help the Penguins finish seventh in overall goals against last season.
“We don't spend a lot of time in defensive-zone coverage, and it's because we have forwards that have the puck so much,” Reirden said.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/-topstories/ ... z2gykb4kcd
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook


Reirden's approach to defense worked in the regular season but obviously was a failure in the playoffs when the penguins forwards were attacked or trapped and turned the puck over. Martin was brought in to install some defense zone coverage because apparently this team really had none.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Beveridge on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:20 am

Wait.

Assistant coaches are suppose to assist in making the team overall better?
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby sil on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:28 am

Don't underestimate how important management feels Bylsma's popularity is...not just amongst this team, but other teams/players in the league as well.

I'm not saying that's the reason he's still here, but it shouldn't be entirely overlooked.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Jesse on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:36 am

sil wrote:Don't underestimate how important management feels Bylsma's popularity is...not just amongst this team, but other teams/players in the league as well.

I'm not saying that's the reason he's still here, but it shouldn't be entirely overlooked.


I disagree. It should be entirely overlooked.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby sil on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:38 am

Jesse wrote:
sil wrote:Don't underestimate how important management feels Bylsma's popularity is...not just amongst this team, but other teams/players in the league as well.

I'm not saying that's the reason he's still here, but it shouldn't be entirely overlooked.


I disagree. It should be entirely overlooked.


Do you really think ownership entirely overlooked it? Regardless of whether or not you think it should be.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:39 am

no name wrote:I honestly think Dan is just a figure head for Jacques as coach.


:lol:
Yes, let's give someone else a 2 year extension to just be the mouth piece for the "assistant" coach.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Gaucho on Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:48 am

sil wrote:
Jesse wrote:
sil wrote:Don't underestimate how important management feels Bylsma's popularity is...not just amongst this team, but other teams/players in the league as well.

I'm not saying that's the reason he's still here, but it shouldn't be entirely overlooked.


I disagree. It should be entirely overlooked.


Do you really think ownership entirely overlooked it? Regardless of whether or not you think it should be.


Yes.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby no name on Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:24 am

Crankshaft wrote:
no name wrote:I honestly think Dan is just a figure head for Jacques as coach.


:lol:
Yes, let's give someone else a 2 year extension to just be the mouth piece for the "assistant" coach.


It sounds odd i must admit. But i think Jacques has a bigger voice in the schemes we play than it appears. The players respond to Dan, hell the players love him. But look at his playoff production besides the first year where he used Therians system to win the cup his system produces in the regular season. But his "we didn't get ot our game" postseason plan just never cuts it. It is not crazy to give a coach and extension, look at Therian he gets us to the cup finals, we give him an exptension then fire him beofor the playoffs.

The players stopped working for Therian, a Martin type coach. So why not keep Dan and the favorable relationship he has with his players. And bring in a hockey mind to "coach" Dan on playoff winning schemes.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Beveridge on Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:53 am

It would be nice if people would just admit that Dan IS a good coach, it's just he doesn't have a complete plan that works. Just like all coaches, which is why they have assistants. I think Martin is the perfect fit for what was lacking in the Pens plan. You take Dan's offense approach that he can pull off with the type of players we have, and add in defensive presence that Martin likes to bring and I think it's a good combo.

It's been brought up before how when Dan took over they still had Therian's defensive approach, so to speak, but with Dan's offensive push, it paid off. I think you'll see a similar effect this year.

If they fizzle out again, then just like this past offseason, I have no issue if the front office wants to go in a different direction than Bylsma. He'll get a job quick somewhere else.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:55 am

...what? That statement is no more valid than "It would be nice if people would just admit that Dan IS a bad coach, it's just that he has a team talented enough to never miss the playoffs."
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Beveridge on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:05 am

A team talented enough they won the cup in the same year they were going to miss the playoffs? A team talented enough that when they have played well over 100 games without Crosby or Malkin or sometimes both but still made it? There are a lot of talented teams out there that have missed the playoffs.

A team talented enough but didn't have it all to win when it mattered the most? That's the point I'm trying to make.

No coach wins it by himself or loses it by himself. Why not fire every coach that doesn't win the cup?

He's a good coach with flaws, just like Babcock, just like Bowman, just like <insert name>. If he was bad he would be fired and not hired anywhere else. Shero knows what he has and so does the front office, but they also know it takes the right assistants.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:08 am

Going to miss the playoffs? You mean 2 spots out 2 months from the end of the season? Lol.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby no name on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:11 am

Beveridge wrote:It would be nice if people would just admit that Dan IS a good coach, it's just he doesn't have a complete plan that works. Just like all coaches, which is why they have assistants. I think Martin is the perfect fit for what was lacking in the Pens plan. You take Dan's offense approach that he can pull off with the type of players we have, and add in defensive presence that Martin likes to bring and I think it's a good combo.

It's been brought up before how when Dan took over they still had Therian's defensive approach, so to speak, but with Dan's offensive push, it paid off. I think you'll see a similar effect this year.

If they fizzle out again, then just like this past offseason, I have no issue if the front office wants to go in a different direction than Bylsma. He'll get a job quick somewhere else.


I don't think in hockey having one coach do offence and one do defence wouldn't work. Your offence to defence transisition has to work together for the whole system to be effective.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Beveridge on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:14 am

It has to gel, sure. It's not football.

Something is better than nothing though, and at times it has felt like it was nothing.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Jesse on Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:15 am

The biggest myth on the internet is "Bylsma used Therrien's system to win the cup."

It's simply not true. The both played a 1-2-2 and did it in a way that was night/day. Therrien's response to losing was to tighten it up. Bylsma's was to go the complete other direction and dictate at the offensive blueline instead of the defensive blueline.

They aren't even close.
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