Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Odd man out is:

Dustin Jeffrey
41
27%
Tanner Glass
2
1%
Jussi Jokinen
1
1%
Deryk Engelland
23
15%
Matt Niskanen
35
23%
Brooks Orpik
13
9%
Simon Despres
35
23%
 
Total votes : 150

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby meow on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:17 pm

I don't want to get...scolded.
meow
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,784
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:02 pm
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby GSdrums87 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:23 pm

Waiting for a response to my post.
GSdrums87
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,136
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 pm

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby sjnhiils on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:28 pm

GSdrums87 wrote:Waiting for a response to my post.

Don't want to give you and the others the satisfaction
sjnhiils
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:32 pm

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby GSdrums87 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:29 pm

A wise decision.
GSdrums87
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,136
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 pm

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby meow on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:34 pm

GSdrums87 wrote:Waiting for a response to my post.

Don't worry, I never got a response to my post about Corsi. I'm still waiting...
meow
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,784
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:02 pm
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:50 pm

Why does Despres have 35 votes? Because he would bring the best return?
thehockeyguru
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,102
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby GSdrums87 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:08 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:Why does Despres have 35 votes? Because he would bring the best return?

To hop back on topic, yes, probably. Could be flipped in the offseason if another rookie has a strong camp. For now, though, he's great injury insurance.
GSdrums87
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,136
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 pm

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:13 pm

Despres just turned 22. I dont see any reason to unload a young first round talent for a back-up goalie or to round out the bottom 6.
thehockeyguru
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,102
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:14 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:Despres just turned 22. I dont see any reason to unload a young first round talent for a back-up goalie or to round out the bottom 6.


Which is why one would expect they'd wait till the offseason to trade Despres, no?
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,534
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby GSdrums87 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:21 pm

I JUST SAID THAT, ALL OF THAT
GSdrums87
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,136
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 pm

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:21 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Despres just turned 22. I dont see any reason to unload a young first round talent for a back-up goalie or to round out the bottom 6.


Which is why one would expect they'd wait till the offseason to trade Despres, no?


Depends on What Niskanen and Orpik command as UFA's and if they are brought back.
thehockeyguru
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,102
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:43 pm
Location: I'm 30 minutes away, I'll be there in 10.

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby meow on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:31 pm

I'm assuming most of the people that voted Despres think that since he is currently in the minors, he is most expendable. I voted Despres because I think he's in the toughest spot to try and get back into the line-up.
meow
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,784
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:02 pm
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby sjnhiils on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:34 pm

mikey287 wrote:We might be lacking an elite true QB, but that doesn't necessarily mean we need one. Especially at such a cost. He's not only our best two-way defenseman, but he might be our only two-way defenseman - at least by my definitions...maybe Letang on a good day, on a leash. And then young Maatta.

If a defenseman is not a PP QB or a shut down defenseman, they can still have value (and do)...and I do believe Martin is plenty capable of shutting down most competition if that's what his main task is. I'm not sure how the money relates though, and further, if Martin at $5 million is not judicious utilization of funds in your opinion despite his ability to eat many tough ES minutes, I can't imagine that John-Michael Liles as more of a PP specialist and limited ES player at a similar contract (even if it's half, it still couldn't be justified using the same criteria) being a prudent addition, right?

At least you back up your argument with valid points and not with snarky responses. In fact I usually agree with most of your posts. I just dont see how we can go into another playoff with (letang,Scuderi,Martin,Orpik) as our top 4 d and not be afraid of what the flyers did to us 2 years ago, the way Islanders handled us and the 6 goals we gave up to Boston in game 2. Couple that with the 2 goals we scored in the Boston series and I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. It would be easier if I thought one trade could put them over the top, but I just see too many holes offensively and defensively that any one trade could remedy
sjnhiils
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:32 pm

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:46 pm

We do back our posts up with facts. You choose to ignore it.

Not our problem there.
MRandall25
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,534
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:11 pm
Location: BOBROVSKY!!!

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby mikey287 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:00 pm

The Flyers didn't do anything to us two years ago. It was a game without coaches and all hell broke loose. There's no roster changes that would have affected that outcome. HCDB lost control of his team, Peter Laviolette lost control of his...the team didn't play a lick of defense, Fleury was hard to hit in the series, it was not hockey. A disciplined team wins that series. It was an embarrassment for both teams that only Philadelphia fans can take solace in despite getting brutally out-coached by a similar or lesser team in the very next series - a series that was never close from the word "go".

This roster is of a good quality. At some point or another, you have to make lemonade out of your lemons because eating them raw isn't as fun. Ray Shero has provided his staff with a very good team. On his way out of the casino last year, Shero put a lot of "house money" on the inside instead of betting red and black...you don't get rich betting red and black. Where did we fail? In my opinion, we failed because we were outcoached in the Boston series. Adjustments could have been made and it's not evident that they were. A wasted opportunity.

This year, the expectation is that we'll get better, more disciplined coaching out of Jacques Martin. Coaches make a big difference and they can fill roster holes or they can augment existing ones - it depends on the quality of the coach and his philosophy.

I'm not aware of any particularly gaping holes on offense with a healthy roster. We score at an outstanding clip relative to our foes. Our transition game has many options, it's just a matter of proper utilization.

Defensively, we could improve the bottom six certainly but it doesn't need as much help as it does need a direction. I was watched the fourth line vs. Philadelphia last week and they did a fine job in terms of possession. There is potential there for that group, but it could certainly be augmented a bit. A Brenden Morrow type addition would be ideal. But, above all, they need a task. Players that go out there with nothing to do can wreak havoc on your success. Watch the Buffalo Sabres game from last night (or any previous night, or hell, any of the next 70 games, I doubt it'll change)...every line goes out there and has no obvious directive. Last year, our bottom six seemed to struggle with an identity. Cooke and Sutter did a nice job of keeping the puck out of our own net despite the situationally disadvantageous positions that HCDB intentionally put them in...but with the puck, there seemed to be little objective. Perhaps that's because they started the shift deep in their own end and getting the puck 200 feet away from our goalie was the objective, but to me, I feel you need direction in all three zones so that you're ready for all situations. I'm not sure exactly what was or wasn't preached by the coaching staff last year, I'm not privy to such information, but the execution was wonky sometimes.

Bottom line, I'd like to see a healthy team (Neal, Letang) coached by HCDB and ACJM for some time, see that progression and see where we're at.
mikey287
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,520
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:40 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA - @MichaelFarkasHF

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby Great58 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:38 pm

Shero put a lot of "house money" on the inside instead of betting red and black...you don't get rich betting red and black. Where did we fail? In my opinion, we failed because we were outcoached in the Boston series. Adjustments could have been made and it's not evident that they were. A wasted opportunity.

I feel like we were handcuffed more by the lineup than by the coaching. That Shero felt the need to trade for Murray shows our defense was soft, something everyone was saying before the trade deadline. As much as we loved Crankshaft based on a couple of shifts in the regular season, he wasn't a good option against a speedy team. Iginla never really fit, yet HCDB felt obliged to get him into the lineup, at least in part to appease Shero and make the trade worth the effort. You can criticize Byslma for not using Iggy on his natural wing, but I wonder if that would have mattered? Shero tried to force a player into the lineup that might not have fit.
Great58
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,578
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:56 pm
Location: On the blue line

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby pcm on Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:47 pm

Blysma was dealt a full house with that roster. He folded to the Bruins' straight, because he played his hand like 3 of a kind.

The Penguins' roster was easily as good as the Blackhawks. But their coaching and execution was barely good enough to get by the Islanders.
pcm
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,925
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:39 am
Location: mountains

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby shafnutz05 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:01 pm

I tend to think it was a little of both. No one could have predicted how crappy the acquisitions would have turned out (and we were all excited as can be, most of us were anyway, at the trade deadline). I also think Bylsma was just outcoached horribly again in the playoffs.
shafnutz05
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 55,413
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: Amish Country

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby Shaky Walton on Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:11 pm

All players have expiration dates and Orpik;s is coming up He will want a 3 or 4 year deal and Shero will not do that Too much depth to have to do that. Do you really think Orpik will take a secondary role on this team. If you do, you are nuts I said it before and I will say it again, You have to get younger and they have the legs to do just that. Orpik will not be resigned. If not traded he will walk
Shaky Walton
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:31 pm

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby sil on Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:52 pm

Shaky Walton wrote:All players have expiration dates and Orpik;s is coming up He will want a 3 or 4 year deal and Shero will not do that Too much depth to have to do that. Do you really think Orpik will take a secondary role on this team. If you do, you are nuts I said it before and I will say it again, You have to get younger and they have the legs to do just that. Orpik will not be resigned. If not traded he will walk


Image
sil
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,813
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: the Juice Case manufacturing plant

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby sil on Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:54 pm

Clearly Shero (and Lemieux) felt that coaching was at least part of the problem, hence...

Spoiler:
Image
sil
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,813
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: the Juice Case manufacturing plant

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby Jim on Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:08 am

Pitts wrote:No, it has been written that he had offers from several teams, one that was significantly better than the Pen's offer.


Ah yes, because writers are actually privy to that information.
Jim
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,402
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby Jim on Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:11 am

thehockeyguru wrote:Why does Despres have 35 votes? Because he would bring the best return?


That is a pretty big part of the thought process as well. Moving your lowest guys will get the lowest return (nothing that really helps). Moving mid range to higher guys could get much better return (something that helps).
Jim
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,402
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:48 am

mikey287 wrote:The Flyers didn't do anything to us two years ago. It was a game without coaches and all hell broke loose. There's no roster changes that would have affected that outcome. HCDB lost control of his team, Peter Laviolette lost control of his...the team didn't play a lick of defense, Fleury was hard to hit in the series, it was not hockey. A disciplined team wins that series. It was an embarrassment for both teams that only Philadelphia fans can take solace in despite getting brutally out-coached by a similar or lesser team in the very next series - a series that was never close from the word "go".

This roster is of a good quality. At some point or another, you have to make lemonade out of your lemons because eating them raw isn't as fun. Ray Shero has provided his staff with a very good team. On his way out of the casino last year, Shero put a lot of "house money" on the inside instead of betting red and black...you don't get rich betting red and black. Where did we fail? In my opinion, we failed because we were outcoached in the Boston series. Adjustments could have been made and it's not evident that they were. A wasted opportunity.

This year, the expectation is that we'll get better, more disciplined coaching out of Jacques Martin. Coaches make a big difference and they can fill roster holes or they can augment existing ones - it depends on the quality of the coach and his philosophy.

I'm not aware of any particularly gaping holes on offense with a healthy roster. We score at an outstanding clip relative to our foes. Our transition game has many options, it's just a matter of proper utilization.

Defensively, we could improve the bottom six certainly but it doesn't need as much help as it does need a direction. I was watched the fourth line vs. Philadelphia last week and they did a fine job in terms of possession. There is potential there for that group, but it could certainly be augmented a bit. A Brenden Morrow type addition would be ideal. But, above all, they need a task. Players that go out there with nothing to do can wreak havoc on your success. Watch the Buffalo Sabres game from last night (or any previous night, or hell, any of the next 70 games, I doubt it'll change)...every line goes out there and has no obvious directive. Last year, our bottom six seemed to struggle with an identity. Cooke and Sutter did a nice job of keeping the puck out of our own net despite the situationally disadvantageous positions that HCDB intentionally put them in...but with the puck, there seemed to be little objective. Perhaps that's because they started the shift deep in their own end and getting the puck 200 feet away from our goalie was the objective, but to me, I feel you need direction in all three zones so that you're ready for all situations. I'm not sure exactly what was or wasn't preached by the coaching staff last year, I'm not privy to such information, but the execution was wonky sometimes.

Bottom line, I'd like to see a healthy team (Neal, Letang) coached by HCDB and ACJM for some time, see that progression and see where we're at.


Well, Petey did lose control at points like Game 3 but he constantly adjusted his neutral zone coverage and breakouts. It's when I first really noticed how just awful HCDB was at in game managing, although the end of that regular season he was picked apart pretty bad too. It's why as the first few games went on the Flyers go stronger after poor starts. I am a huge fan but not a coach and I noticed what the Flyers did to combat us.

That being said I put a lot if not a ton of blame on HCDB for the playoffs as he was terrible but I still say that roster is being fairly overrated on this board. The guys that left aren't exactly having banner years and the way Nisky was playing we had a bottom 3 on defense that was (coaching or not) really awful. Some of our depth forwards just didint have the legs to carry us when needed (Adams, Jussi) and guys like Bennett and TK while they had moments just couldn't carry any play at all.

Adams and Glass are certainly performing better this season but let's see if they can continue this.

I said before the playoffs last year that my biggest concern was our bottom lines ability to cycle and carry play or come in waves. GMRS definitely added some guys who in theory can aid in that regard and they brought in a more structured coach. We will see what happens, at least the problem was recognized. But the cap doesn't always allow for solutions.
BurghersAndDogsSports
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,043
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa

Re: Most Likely Trade Candidate?

Postby no name on Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:03 am

Well, Petey did lose control at points like Game 3 but he constantly adjusted his neutral zone coverage and breakouts. It's when I first really noticed how just awful HCDB was at in game managing, although the end of that regular season he was picked apart pretty bad too. It's why as the first few games went on the Flyers go stronger after poor starts. I am a huge fan but not a coach and I noticed what the Flyers did to combat us.

That being said I put a lot if not a ton of blame on HCDB for the playoffs as he was terrible but I still say that roster is being fairly overrated on this board. The guys that left aren't exactly having banner years and the way Nisky was playing we had a bottom 3 on defense that was (coaching or not) really awful. Some of our depth forwards just didint have the legs to carry us when needed (Adams, Jussi) and guys like Bennett and TK while they had moments just couldn't carry any play at all.

Adams and Glass are certainly performing better this season but let's see if they can continue this.

I said before the playoffs last year that my biggest concern was our bottom lines ability to cycle and carry play or come in waves. GMRS definitely added some guys who in theory can aid in that regard and they brought in a more structured coach. We will see what happens, at least the problem was recognized. But the cap doesn't always allow for solutions.


I really started to questions Dans ability during the flyers series where our players continually took bad penalties and looked undisplined when the flyers did their antics. The years before that i could rationalize we were missing either Malkin or SId or both. But the full line up and all our players are acting like babies i seen a coach who couldn't control his players. Then this same thing happened vs Boston?? Our players lose control of their emotions that is a coach who lose his players.

ALso the other time was of couse VS Ottawa we got a 1-0 lead 2 mins to go in the game, we got a power play and he sends out the top power play unit??? If the play goes the other way they pull their goalie its a 5 on 5. No you put out your top defensive unit to waste that power play time. I mean that is coaching 101 right there.
no name
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,908
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:19 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

e-mail