Niskanen & Jokinen

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Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Pens4Life on Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:18 am

I would really keep both of them,beyond this season.. Opinions?
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:25 am

Eh, maybe...depends on the cost...not really crazy about keeping either of them, to be honest...not that Niskanen, in particular, has played poorly...but just as a cost vs. reward deal, Niskanen's job could probably be done nearly as well or as well by one of our entry-level players...I hope they both have terrific playoffs and are able to cash in some place else...we'll mail them their rings...
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Tico Rick on Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:39 am

Considering cost vs. reward, is it really worth it to have Kris Letang on this team?
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Gaucho on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:03 am

What mikey said.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby columbia on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:09 am

What Tico asked.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Gaucho on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:13 am

What mikey said and Tico asked.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby mikey287 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:18 am

Tico Rick wrote:Considering cost vs. reward, is it really worth it to have Kris Letang on this team?


With respect, and not agreeing or disagreeing, but that's not really the point of the thread, right? I find it to be an unlikely scenario where we get a return for Letang of value and use the saved money to re-sign Niskanen. I really, really, really don't want to turn this into another Letang thread...but I'd take my chances with Letang and his contract than Niskanen at $4 million+...I know that will be unpopular right now (especially because the SH goal against for Laich yesterday is still fresh in everyone's minds and Letang has resumed being the worst draft pick in team history since Goligoski), but at a wider scope, I really believe that it's true...
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Beveridge on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:20 am

Tico Rick wrote:Considering cost vs. reward, is it really worth it to have Kris Letang on this team?



At his cost this year with the way he is playing: Yeah, why not.

At his cost next year with the way he is playing: No


Do I want Niskanen over Letang long-term: No
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby ffemtreed on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:23 am

Jokinen would be nice to keep around for this team considering our lack of depth at top 6 wingers, injury history and his chemistry with Malkin and Sutter. I don't see a big payday raise coming for him this offseason, so they price should be right to keep him.

Nisky on the other hand has been playing well above his contract and will be due for a raise on a young team somewhere. Just the opposite of Jokinen, we have plenty of D waiting in the wings and ready to play on a bottom pairing next year. We have Martin, Letang, Orpik, Scuderi and Maatta who can play in the top four next year leaving open a 6th D-man spot. Factor in we are going to be possibly losing Martin after next season we need to give one of our young D a whole year under his belt before putting them in a larger role. I wouldn't be surprised to see Niskanen gone at the deadline for some up front help or a solid 3rd line player that is signed beyond this year.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby no name on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:29 am

Both will cost you a bit after the season and servicable replacements can be found.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Gaucho on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:34 am

JJ is fine, but there are better options out there for what he is probably going to make. Or wants to make.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Gaucho on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:35 am

ffemtreed wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see Niskanen gone at the deadline for some up front help or a solid 3rd line player that is signed beyond this year.


I'd be very surprised if some team was willing to trade that kind of player for a rental.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Tico Rick on Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:42 am

mikey287 wrote:
Tico Rick wrote:Considering cost vs. reward, is it really worth it to have Kris Letang on this team?


With respect, and not agreeing or disagreeing, but that's not really the point of the thread, right? I find it to be an unlikely scenario where we get a return for Letang of value and use the saved money to re-sign Niskanen. I really, really, really don't want to turn this into another Letang thread...but I'd take my chances with Letang and his contract than Niskanen at $4 million+...I know that will be unpopular right now (especially because the SH goal against for Laich yesterday is still fresh in everyone's minds and Letang has resumed being the worst draft pick in team history since Goligoski), but at a wider scope, I really believe that it's true...


Not trying to turn this into another Letang thread, but when considering Niskanen's cost vs. reward, one does have to consider the makeup of the defensive personnel, of which Kris Letang is a part. We don't know what the Pens could sign Niskanen for next year, but if it's to play on a team that has Letang, the Pens probably can't afford him. I do feel that Niskanen is really undervalued, even on LGP.com. The Pens could easily move Letang for forward power without even considering a defensive replacement for him, in which case Niskanen for around $4 million could work out quite nicely, as it would still be net positive in terms of cost vs. reward. It would also be a greater positive return then the return on Letang next year, IMO.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Defence21 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:25 am

Gaucho wrote:JJ is fine, but there are better options out there for what he is probably going to make. Or wants to make.

If he comes in at $2.5 - $3, I think he's a great fit for this team, considering what he can bring to the table -- faceoff wins, complimentary/secondary scoring, moderate chemistry with Malkin/Neal (no guarantee any outsider will create this), shootout skills (which can help to add a few points over the course of a season), etc. I'm not in love with the guy, but in his time here, all he's done is play good hockey regardless of his linemates. If he jumps above the $3 million range, he can walk.

Realistically, $3 million could be tough, given that he's making $2.1 million right now and could finish the season easily with 50+ points. But if Shero convinces him that he's found a home and reminds him that he took a chance on him when 29 other teams passed (Carolina and 28 teams via waivers), he might just agree.

Niskanen is a nice guy to have, but he's a depth player who can and should be replaced by one of the young defensemen.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby RxBandit66 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:32 am

I like both players, and they have developed chemistry here. Jokinen, in particular, could be integral in the development of Maatta. A lot of factors come into play here. Depending upon which defender Shero decides to trade this season (as a trade is inevitable), it may prove too costly to re-sign Niskanen, as he is going to get paid nicely after the season he is having. They simply cannot keep every one out of Orpik, Martin, Letang, Scuderi, and Niskanen beyond this season. Not enough money and the young guys are ready to move up.

Going back to what Mikey said, one of the young guys could step in and do most of what Niskanen can do. That is not the case with Letang. He is a player with a spectacular skill set. Niskanen is currently having a better season this year than Letang (not atypical given each of their contract situations), but Letang is a more dynamic player. If Letang ever puts it all together, there is no other player in the league like him. The team has been waiting a LONG time for him to do that, however. Honestly I think they will try to keep Niskanen, and let the veterans (Orpik, Martin, Scuderi) go one at a time as their deals expire, working the young "D" in over the next few seasons.

Jokinen already makes $3m so I'm not sure how big of a raise he could possibly get. He'll probably want years though at his age, and likely more years than Shero will be willing to give him. If it were me, I'd re-sign him. The team is already so thin up front, and he can play any position and win draws.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby pens_CT on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:35 am

Defence21 wrote:
Gaucho wrote:JJ is fine, but there are better options out there for what he is probably going to make. Or wants to make.

If he comes in at $2.5 - $3, I think he's a great fit for this team, considering what he can bring to the table -- faceoff wins, complimentary/secondary scoring, moderate chemistry with Malkin/Neal (no guarantee any outsider will create this), shootout skills (which can help to add a few points over the course of a season), etc. I'm not in love with the guy, but in his time here, all he's done is play good hockey regardless of his linemates. If he jumps above the $3 million range, he can walk.

Realistically, $3 million could be tough, given that he's making $2.1 million right now and could finish the season easily with 50+ points. But if Shero convinces him that he's found a home and reminds him that he took a chance on him when 29 other teams passed (Carolina and 28 teams via waivers), he might just agree.

Niskanen is a nice guy to have, but he's a depth player who can and should be replaced by one of the young defensemen.


He's making 3 million now, the Pens are only on the hook for 2.1 million. I'd doubt he comes back for zero raise, so he's going to be over 3 mil if he comes back. My opinion pass.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Pitt87 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:55 am

Jokinen is carving out some space on this team. Nisky may not be as competitive for spots that may be consumed by Doumolin and Pouliot in the near future...

Our young defensive future is an embarrassment of riches. There will be casualties.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby RxBandit66 on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:34 am

Pitt87 wrote:Jokinen is carving out some space on this team. Nisky may not be as competitive for spots that may be consumed by Doumolin and Pouliot in the near future...

Our young defensive future is an embarrassment of riches. There will be casualties.


There will be, and the return that Shero gets for these players will determine, in large part, the success of the team going forward. Given the cap and the cost of several players against it, the Pens will have to find ways to win with players on entry level deals playing fairly major roles in the coming years. Maatta is a great example (so glad they kept him up here this season) of one of these kids working out better than expected. Bennett is an example of one who has not, given his tendency to get injured.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:37 am

The problem I believe in the eyes of fans is that if Malkin or Neal aren't tearing things up, the fingers get pointed at Jokinen for not being a strong enough line-mate.

Is that a valid? I don't know. Jokinen brings some solid intangibles, but he doesn't bring consistency in the scoring department. He isn't fast or physical which fans like to see.

Also, what happens with Bennett is a major factor. What if Bennett becomes Sid's other winger and Dupuis gets moved Malkin's line? Jokinen is a disaster on a third line.

I personally wouldn't hold onto Jokinen not because I don't think he's good, but because I don't think he fits in long-term plans once this team is healthy. Also consider if the Penguins do acquire a top-six winger under contract, Jokinen really has no place here.

I'd only keep Niskanen if Letang were traded, otherwise as someone else said there are other players already on the team who could step up to do what he's doing. Niskanen is doing a great job of upping his value and will surely be able to double his salary elsewhere.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby BleuLineLady on Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:18 am

Jokinen stays if he keeps the price range at an affordable rate. I think around 3-3.2 million per for 2 years would be a good and fair deal for both sides. He has hands, can still shoot and is good on faceoffs and shootouts. Not very gritty, but he offers depth in the lineup that is needed right now. He can play up and down in the lineup and has proven to be fairly consistent. Not sure what his relationship is with Maata, if theyre close or not, but it might not hurt having a fellow Finn in the locker room to help with his development going forward.

Niskanen should not be traded during this season unless Shero can get a great return on him right now. The thinking would be to get the best return on investment from a guy who is playing his best hockey ever right now, but I think he's been playing so well, that I wouldnt understate his importance on this team for this season. Sure in the future, his role can be easily replaced, but right now I'm not sure. Also, not sure any team would give up much for him anyways.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby no name on Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:24 am

Unless you are going to trade rental for rental geting a specific roll player in return you won't get much for either guy. Maybe a mid draft pick. My guess Shero keeps both for the playoffs and lets them walk after the post season.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby pcm on Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:33 am

I could see a team like Anaheim trading a young player who's not really contributing (Palmieri) for Niskanen as a rental.

With how well Niskanen has been playing though, I'm not sure Shero can trade him. Plus, Orpik and Letang are question marks at this point. As is Martin, to a degree, coming back fro injury. I think watching how Martin-Orpik perform in the olympics will go a long ways to deciding whether they up to the task of top shutdown pairing or not.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby pcm on Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:40 am

As for Jokinen, as someone said in the other thread, he's like a more well-rounded Sykora. Not a bad guy to have around for depth, but I don't like him at all with Malkin-Neal. Neal plays SYkora's role on that line. It needs someone to go in front of the net ala Pyatt last night.

I'd wait to see how Jokinen plays with Sutter. I think Jokinen can be the puck possession guy on that line (that the coaches have said they want to add to the 3rd line). Getting a 2nd line LW, dropping JOkinen down to the 3rd line, and then see how he performs in the playoffs. If he contributes, then I'm fine with re-signing him for $2.5m for 2 years. Nothing more.

But otheriwse, I get the sense that Jokinen is a regular season guy, and e's on the downside of his career...
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby wondermoose on Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:01 pm

Niskanen has found a level of consistency this year that makes him worth keeping. I think it will be up to Jokinen on whether he stays or goes, and I guess the market will dictate that as well. I could see the Pens dropping a 3 year, 7.5 million contract on him, but that's about as high as he's worth when everyone is healthy.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Beveridge on Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:10 pm

New angle to this thread.

Niskanen OR Jokinen


I'd keep Jokinen if I had to decide between the 2 for obvious reasons stated.
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