Niskanen & Jokinen

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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:18 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
SteelCityFan wrote:
Gaucho wrote:This is what will happen: He will not be dealt at the deadline and he will walk in the summer.

Who are they going to trade so they can win a cup then?


Crosby?
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:23 pm

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
SteelCityFan wrote:
Gaucho wrote:This is what will happen: He will not be dealt at the deadline and he will walk in the summer.

Who are they going to trade so they can win a cup then?


Crosby?


It has to be a defenseman.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby sil on Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:52 am

The answer is Bortuzzo. Because every team in the league is lining up at the door to offer us their best top-6 forward for a run-of-the-mill #6,7 who's pretty much reached the pinnacle of his ability.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby no name on Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:25 am

sil wrote:The answer is Bortuzzo. Because every team in the league is lining up at the door to offer us their best top-6 forward for a run-of-the-mill #6,7 who's pretty much reached the pinnacle of his ability.


The price for a true top 6 guy is going to be steep this deadline day. You are right that Bortuzzo won't even get a conversation started.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Gaucho on Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:32 am

For a rental?
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:56 pm

Gaucho wrote:For a rental?


This might be the direction they have to go. A draft pick or a defense prospect (not Despres) for a rental or two. Bennett will be top 6 next season and Megna will push for a 3rd line spot. Plus they will have Dupuis back. Shero can sign a third liner in the offseason.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Antonio on Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:58 pm

I am not sure why everyone is so sure that Bortuzzo is at the top of his limit already. How old is the guy? I think he is pretty decent and could get better...at least as good as orpik i think.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby sil on Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:08 pm

Antonio, you're right in that we can't be 100% "sure"...but we can make a pretty good guess based on the career arc and trajectory he's taken so far. For a guy with decent size who showed some but limited potential as late teen...he's made really good growth and has proven to be a useful NHL depth guy...and that's both a credit to him and to the pens development staff (same goes for Strait...who I still say would be here instead of Bortuzzo had he not had all the injury issues leading up to last year).

I honestly don't think Bortuzzo has all that more growth in him though...and I'd bet the farm he won't ever get close to being the same type of reliable 20+ minute per night D-man that Brooks has been for most of his career. If he does...than it would come from out of nowhere and will have been dormant in what's he shown throughout his whole career to date...in other words...don't count on it. As a #6/#7...you could do a lot worse though.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Gaucho on Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:34 pm

I'm not sure I want to give Bort away for a rental.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby no name on Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:42 pm

Antonio wrote:I am not sure why everyone is so sure that Bortuzzo is at the top of his limit already. How old is the guy? I think he is pretty decent and could get better...at least as good as orpik i think.


Bortuzzos ceiling right now would be for him to match how well Orpik is playing currently. Bortuzzo will never reach Orpiks ability in his prime.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby mikey287 on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:59 pm

sil wrote:Antonio, you're right in that we can't be 100% "sure"...but we can make a pretty good guess based on the career arc and trajectory he's taken so far. For a guy with decent size who showed some but limited potential as late teen...he's made really good growth and has proven to be a useful NHL depth guy...and that's both a credit to him and to the pens development staff (same goes for Strait...who I still say would be here instead of Bortuzzo had he not had all the injury issues leading up to last year).

I honestly don't think Bortuzzo has all that more growth in him though...and I'd bet the farm he won't ever get close to being the same type of reliable 20+ minute per night D-man that Brooks has been for most of his career. If he does...than it would come from out of nowhere and will have been dormant in what's he shown throughout his whole career to date...in other words...don't count on it. As a #6/#7...you could do a lot worse though.


Co-signed,
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby 100565 on Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:24 pm

shmenguin wrote:niskanen shouldn't be re-signed no matter who isn't coming back. value-wise, it's a horrible time to do that. you can't give a UFA a contract based on one year of abnormal success. you're going to pay $5 million plus for a $3 million player. that's bad business.


dupuis, pascal. 1.5 years of abnormal success. Pay $3.75 million to a $2.5 million player. Bad business.

I offer Niskanen the $3 million contract. But shero's history says he might go more.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby columbia on Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:33 pm

They are going to be a tight fit, after they re-sign Sutter and let Orpik, Jussi and Niskanen walk.
Not sure why anyone thinks the latter three will be back at any price.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Antonio on Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:40 am

yeah I can definitely see this argument and in many ways I can agree with it. However, I think that he could be a very solid 6/7 or even possibly lower second pairing guy who has a big body and very physical presence which is relatively rare. I would hate to give him up for something like a rental, especially considering how valuable depth can be and considering that I think he brings a few qualities that we lack on the blue line. also I think he might have progressed a little better with a little more playing time and less bylsma slow aging veteran bias. has to be hard to develop confidence effectively when you are in and out of a line up for any little mistake.
Last edited by Antonio on Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Gaucho on Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:51 am

Antonio wrote:also I think he might have progressed a little better with a little more playing time and less bylsma slow aging veteran bias. has to be hard to develop confidence effectively when you are in and out of a line up for any little mistake.


No offense, but that narrative is getting old.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby shmenguin on Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:11 pm

Gaucho wrote:
Antonio wrote:also I think he might have progressed a little better with a little more playing time and less bylsma slow aging veteran bias. has to be hard to develop confidence effectively when you are in and out of a line up for any little mistake.


No offense, but that narrative is getting old.


old doesn't mean untrue.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:39 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
Antonio wrote:also I think he might have progressed a little better with a little more playing time and less bylsma slow aging veteran bias. has to be hard to develop confidence effectively when you are in and out of a line up for any little mistake.


No offense, but that narrative is getting old.


old doesn't mean untrue.

Yeah its bizarre that one would imply that more playing time isnt better.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Pitts on Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:40 pm

Antonio wrote:yeah I can definitely see this argument and in many ways I can agree with it. However, I think that he could be a very solid 6/7 or even possibly lower second pairing guy who has a big body and very physical presence which is relatively rare. I would hate to give him up for something like a rental, especially considering how valuable depth can be and considering that I think he brings a few qualities that we lack on the blue line. also I think he might have progressed a little better with a little more playing time and less bylsma slow aging veteran bias. has to be hard to develop confidence effectively when you are in and out of a line up for any little mistake.

When you have Despres, Harrington, Pouliot, Dumoulin, Samuellson, Ruopp etc, waiting in the wings, you can afford to give up a depth defenseman for a rental. This team is in win now mode.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Pitts on Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:43 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Gaucho wrote:
Antonio wrote:also I think he might have progressed a little better with a little more playing time and less bylsma slow aging veteran bias. has to be hard to develop confidence effectively when you are in and out of a line up for any little mistake.


No offense, but that narrative is getting old.


old doesn't mean untrue.

Yeah its bizarre that one would imply that more playing time isnt better.

So, they should just ship out all the vets and fill the roster with kids because, you know, more playing time equals great player development. We could have a blue line of all stars if Bylsma would just let it happen dammit!
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:45 pm

Who suggested that?
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Pitts on Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:57 pm

Me.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby pcm on Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:05 pm

Bortuzzo has definitely peaked at the ripe old age of 24. :roll:

The difference between Bortuzzo and all those other prospects is that none of them brings the style of defense that Bortuzzo plays. Sure, he doesn't project to be a top shutdown guy. But that doesn't mean his role as a physical depth crease clearer isn't an essential one.

The Pens have traded for these types (Murray, Gill) at the deadline because they're key components... Get rid of Bortuzzo and we'll be dropping 2nd rounders every other year for rentals.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby 100565 on Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:09 pm

Pitts wrote:This team is in win now mode.


This team has been in win now mode since the last cup....five years ago!!! It hasn't been working.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby pcm on Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:15 pm

And it will be in win now mode for the next 10 years. So long as Sid is a Pen.

As Shero has noted, a different strategy is needed (ie. not rentals).
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby columbia on Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:16 pm

The thread title sounds like a law firm.
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