Niskanen & Jokinen

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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:15 pm

Beveridge wrote:I like a man on the point who can hit the net with a hard shot and keeps the PK honest, but that's just me.

Spoiler:
I'm all for Nisky staying on first unit if it wasn't clear.


Niskanen is actually worse at hitting the net than Kris Letang was :pop:
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Great58 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:20 pm

penny lane wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:I wonder now if Niski gets re-signed before the summer with the uncertainty revolving around Letang's career.


At the very least, it'll put to bed any notion of trading Niskanen. His value to the team skyrocketed.


When the pens convene after the olympics, Niskanen's role needs to be scaled back. I don't like him on the 1st power play. not his forte. Let him focus on defensive play.

I like Martin on the first PP. Hope to see it tonight.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:24 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Beveridge wrote:I like a man on the point who can hit the net with a hard shot and keeps the PK honest, but that's just me.

Spoiler:
I'm all for Nisky staying on first unit if it wasn't clear.


Niskanen is actually worse at hitting the net than Kris Letang was :pop:


Is there a stat for that somewhere? I agree, I haven't noticed an improvement, but I don't know how it can be proven one way or the other.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby no name on Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:43 pm

Great58 wrote:
penny lane wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:I wonder now if Niski gets re-signed before the summer with the uncertainty revolving around Letang's career.


At the very least, it'll put to bed any notion of trading Niskanen. His value to the team skyrocketed.


When the pens convene after the olympics, Niskanen's role needs to be scaled back. I don't like him on the 1st power play. not his forte. Let him focus on defensive play.

I like Martin on the first PP. Hope to see it tonight.


Agree, Martin showed the most on the power play. Maybe not the most flashy offensive game but it seems when he is out there the puck stays alive in the zone and he allows the high powered offensive guys to do their thing while he works off them. With those guys we don't need another guy with a forward mentality. Keep the puck moving and keep it alive in the zone.

Letang and sometimes Niskanen think they are a equal part of the powerplay machine where Martin realizes he is just a small peice. That mentality works best with the 4 other guys who want the puck on their stick.

On a different power play Letang and Nisky would be more valuable.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby tfrizz on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:03 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Beveridge wrote:I like a man on the point who can hit the net with a hard shot and keeps the PK honest, but that's just me.

Spoiler:
I'm all for Nisky staying on first unit if it wasn't clear.


Niskanen is actually worse at hitting the net than Kris Letang was :pop:


Is there a stat for that somewhere? I agree, I haven't noticed an improvement, but I don't know how it can be proven one way or the other.


They both miss the net quite a bit when shooting. The difference I've noticed between the two is that Niskanen seems more likely to get the puck past first-level defenders while Letang seems to get a lot of shot attempts blocked high in the zone.

That said, it's pretty hard to argue with Niskanen's 33 points this season. That's 12 more than the next best on the team (Maatta) and 21 more than Martin - that, alone, earns him time on the 1st unit.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby shmenguin on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:16 pm

niskanen's shot has never seemed particularly effective.

i think he's looked shaky over the last couple weeks. his stats don't represent his actual quality. that's a terrible time to give a guy a contract.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Pruezy11881 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:17 pm

And IMO Nisky is better at putting the puck in a shooting position for teammates and doesn't look so panicky with the puck.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:20 pm

Yeah, I don't think the shot is any kind of advantage for Niskanen over the alternative. He is smarter with the puck at the point than others.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby MRandall25 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:23 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Beveridge wrote:I like a man on the point who can hit the net with a hard shot and keeps the PK honest, but that's just me.

Spoiler:
I'm all for Nisky staying on first unit if it wasn't clear.


Niskanen is actually worse at hitting the net than Kris Letang was :pop:


Is there a stat for that somewhere? I agree, I haven't noticed an improvement, but I don't know how it can be proven one way or the other.


I found it one afternoon. Fenwick is total attempted shots, so you would take his Fenwick number minus his shots on goal to give you missed shots + blocked shots.

http://www.extraskater.com/player/21/ma ... n#shooting

You add S + MS + BS for Fenwick, then you take shots and divide it by Fenwick for the on-net percentage.

Matt Niskanen is at 45.5% for getting pucks on net (101 shots / 222 total shots attempted). Letang is (and I realize this is a smaller sample size than Niskanen due to injuries) at 56.5% (100 shots / 177 total shots).

Also, Letang's shooting % (goals/shots recorded) is 10.0% while Niskanen's is only 6.9%.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby pugilist13 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:17 pm

Nisky is gone in July, big payday. Juice may stick around at an affordable price because of who he's playing with.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Pens4Life on Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:49 pm

pugilist13 wrote:Nisky is gone in July, big payday. Juice may stick around at an affordable price because of who he's playing with.


The only way Niskanen stays is,if we let Orpik go..which sadly wont happen.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby guiner on Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:22 pm

Pens4Life wrote:
pugilist13 wrote:Nisky is gone in July, big payday. Juice may stick around at an affordable price because of who he's playing with.


The only way Niskanen stays is,if we let Orpik go..which sadly wont happen.


I really don't think its this pessimistic. One would think that central to the Shero system of drafting tons of quality rookie D and having few super high priced veterans is the need to let some veteran D go. I don't think it was lost on the organization that this team D with our WB D-men played fantastic.

The other optimistic thought is that you'd have to think Nisky is smart enough to know he is got a good thing here. He has been in a system that didn't work for him, this system is perfect. And there are worse places to be not dishing to Sid and Malkin or pairing with Olli Maatta... FUTURE HALL OF FAMER AND MULTIPLE NORRIS TROPHY WINNER... LOLz
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby no name on Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:14 am

guiner wrote:
Pens4Life wrote:
pugilist13 wrote:Nisky is gone in July, big payday. Juice may stick around at an affordable price because of who he's playing with.


The only way Niskanen stays is,if we let Orpik go..which sadly wont happen.


I really don't think its this pessimistic. One would think that central to the Shero system of drafting tons of quality rookie D and having few super high priced veterans is the need to let some veteran D go. I don't think it was lost on the organization that this team D with our WB D-men played fantastic.

The other optimistic thought is that you'd have to think Nisky is smart enough to know he is got a good thing here. He has been in a system that didn't work for him, this system is perfect. And there are worse places to be not dishing to Sid and Malkin or pairing with Olli Maatta... FUTURE HALL OF FAMER AND MULTIPLE NORRIS TROPHY WINNER... LOLz


As much as Nisky would like to stay i don't think we can offer him a long term contract. Lets face it Nisky is goin gto look for a 3-4 year deal and i would guess he would command 3.5 to 5 a season. Would you want to commit that time and money to him if you had enough talent in the minors to pay someone a entry contract. Nisky will look to cash in is all i am saying and no one can blame him for it.

Thon only problem i have in making a move with Orpik right now is we are gearing up for a playoff run, not a good time to mentor a rookie and put up with rookie mistakes.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby shmenguin on Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:16 am

niskanen shouldn't be re-signed no matter who isn't coming back. value-wise, it's a horrible time to do that. you can't give a UFA a contract based on one year of abnormal success. you're going to pay $5 million plus for a $3 million player. that's bad business.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby sil on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:21 pm

Based on Niskanen's body of work with the pens to date, I do think he's a guy you'd want back if Letang were to be gone (for whatever reason). Now $5,000,000 plus...obviously that ain't gonna fly...let someone else pay him that if they wish to be stupid. Up to $4,000,000...again, if Letang were out...that's more in the ballpark I'd be okay playing in.

In any case, Niskanen is going to hit free agency on July 1, and he's gonna see a nice payday...so good for him! As Mikey has said several times...hopefully the pens can send him off to his new home with a ring.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:23 pm

Letang will be back.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby shmenguin on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:31 pm

sil wrote:Based on Niskanen's body of work with the pens to date, I do think he's a guy you'd want back if Letang were to be gone (for whatever reason). Now $5,000,000 plus...obviously that ain't gonna fly...let someone else pay him that if they wish to be stupid. Up to $4,000,000...again, if Letang were out...that's more in the ballpark I'd be okay playing in.

In any case, Niskanen is going to hit free agency on July 1, and he's gonna see a nice payday...so good for him! As Mikey has said several times...hopefully the pens can send him off to his new home with a ring.


if he finishes top 20 in defenseman scoring and top 5 in +/- (both are pretty likely at this point, i think), all the while getting big minutes on an elite team...man, he's gonna get paid.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby RxBandit66 on Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:05 pm

shmenguin wrote:niskanen shouldn't be re-signed no matter who isn't coming back. value-wise, it's a horrible time to do that. you can't give a UFA a contract based on one year of abnormal success. you're going to pay $5 million plus for a $3 million player. that's bad business.


Sad, but true. He's going to get paid a ridiculous amount after this season, and the odds are that he'll never repeat these numbers again, especially if he goes to a weaker offensive team. If he would repeat them every season for the next five years, he'd be worth even more than $5m. He won't, however, so you are right, it's bad business to sign him with so much talented youth in the pipeline.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby no name on Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:07 pm

shmenguin wrote:
sil wrote:Based on Niskanen's body of work with the pens to date, I do think he's a guy you'd want back if Letang were to be gone (for whatever reason). Now $5,000,000 plus...obviously that ain't gonna fly...let someone else pay him that if they wish to be stupid. Up to $4,000,000...again, if Letang were out...that's more in the ballpark I'd be okay playing in.

In any case, Niskanen is going to hit free agency on July 1, and he's gonna see a nice payday...so good for him! As Mikey has said several times...hopefully the pens can send him off to his new home with a ring.


if he finishes top 20 in defenseman scoring and top 5 in +/- (both are pretty likely at this point, i think), all the while getting big minutes on an elite team...man, he's gonna get paid.


I would still be in favor of trading Nisky for a for another rental defenseman if it was a younger faster Orpik type. Can't have to many physical guys on the blue line, espicially when we are almost guarenteed to face the Bruins in the playoffs if we make it to the ECF.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby slappybrown on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:01 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Beveridge wrote:I like a man on the point who can hit the net with a hard shot and keeps the PK honest, but that's just me.

Spoiler:
I'm all for Nisky staying on first unit if it wasn't clear.


Niskanen is actually worse at hitting the net than Kris Letang was :pop:


Is there a stat for that somewhere? I agree, I haven't noticed an improvement, but I don't know how it can be proven one way or the other.


I found it one afternoon. Fenwick is total attempted shots, so you would take his Fenwick number minus his shots on goal to give you missed shots + blocked shots.

http://www.extraskater.com/player/21/ma ... n#shooting

You add S + MS + BS for Fenwick, then you take shots and divide it by Fenwick for the on-net percentage.

Matt Niskanen is at 45.5% for getting pucks on net (101 shots / 222 total shots attempted). Letang is (and I realize this is a smaller sample size than Niskanen due to injuries) at 56.5% (100 shots / 177 total shots).

Also, Letang's shooting % (goals/shots recorded) is 10.0% while Niskanen's is only 6.9%.

*claps*
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:08 pm

Younger faster Orpik types aren't likely to get moved. Old slower orpik types get selected for Olympic teams.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Beveridge on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:12 pm

slappybrown wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Beveridge wrote:I like a man on the point who can hit the net with a hard shot and keeps the PK honest, but that's just me.

Spoiler:
I'm all for Nisky staying on first unit if it wasn't clear.


Niskanen is actually worse at hitting the net than Kris Letang was :pop:


Is there a stat for that somewhere? I agree, I haven't noticed an improvement, but I don't know how it can be proven one way or the other.


I found it one afternoon. Fenwick is total attempted shots, so you would take his Fenwick number minus his shots on goal to give you missed shots + blocked shots.

http://www.extraskater.com/player/21/ma ... n#shooting

You add S + MS + BS for Fenwick, then you take shots and divide it by Fenwick for the on-net percentage.

Matt Niskanen is at 45.5% for getting pucks on net (101 shots / 222 total shots attempted). Letang is (and I realize this is a smaller sample size than Niskanen due to injuries) at 56.5% (100 shots / 177 total shots).

Also, Letang's shooting % (goals/shots recorded) is 10.0% while Niskanen's is only 6.9%.

*claps*


Would have never guessed
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:16 pm

I started looking for stats when he had 7 attempted shots and only 1 hit the net (ironically, for a goal) against the Devils on New Year's Eve.

Niskanen also has about 30 more shots blocked (77 - 43) AND more shots blocked per game (1.33 - 1.26).
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby SteelCityFan on Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:42 pm

Gaucho wrote:This is what will happen: He will not be dealt at the deadline and he will walk in the summer.
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Re: Niskanen & Jokinen

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:10 pm

SteelCityFan wrote:
Gaucho wrote:This is what will happen: He will not be dealt at the deadline and he will walk in the summer.

Who are they going to trade so they can win a cup then?
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