The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby burghsportsguys on Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:38 am

bh wrote:I can't see anyone giving Brooks 6 million contract for 3-4 years. That's ludicrous! I like Brooks, but he's been getting bad fast. I think that most other NHL teams would see that too.


I had a very difficult time reconciling "the decline of Orpik" with the idea that someone would pay him $6MM per year. Orpik is not playing good hockey. He's nowhere near the physical presence he used to be 4-5 years ago. To pay him $3.75MM again would be a huge mistake, let alone $6MM. It wold be crazy to suggest that Nisky will get $6MM, and no one in their right mind would take Orpik over Nisky next season.

The Pens will easily replace Orpik with Bortuzzo next season... Orpik may be overpaid by someone, but it will be similar to the deal Scuderi signed.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Pitts on Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:40 am

mikey287 wrote:Yeah, it's pretty much on the money there...I've been debating it in my own head the last handful of games whether I'm too sentimental in wanting Orpik to stick around as a lower pairing guy and if that's at all realistic...but I do think his reputation around the league is higher than what we see on a nightly basis and I just think this could be his last season as a Penguin...

I don't believe he's traded at the deadline because playoff Orpik is still a pretty effective player and in a contract year, I have to imagine it'll be good...but if he goes, I'd love to send him off with a cherry on top to his long Penguin career...

But I subscribe to the article almost completely...

Thank you Mikey. These are my feelings exactly. How I hate watching the fall of a great warrior.
Take the Body Shoot the Puck wrote:Orpik won't be going anywhere this season and as much sense as it makes to let him walk in the offseason, somehow I see Shero bringing him back.

Sadly, I no longer feel this is a sure bet.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby pcm on Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:40 am

No chance Orpik makes the olympic team if Blysma is not coach. He specifically requested him, which the GM's honored because it was the only request he made.

I don't see any evidence of Blysma insulating Orpik though. Scuderi, definitely (again, 2nd least minutes by dmen). Maybe in that DB is leaning more and more on Niskanen and Maatta, who have been far and away the team's best defesmen this season. (Those 2 and Despres are the only dmen with positive corsi numbers. Contrast to Bos or Chi, where all their dmen are positive.)

Orpik and Martin have been pretty bad out there. Martin is starting to look like Letang earlier this season, getting caught up ice, trying to force the puck through 3 defenders, etc. Hopefully the Olympics get these guys back on track.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Shakes on Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:53 am

I imagine Jim reading this article/thread like:

Image
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:28 pm

Orpik has thrown a lot of hits and also taken his share. Wear & tear is bound to occur. Between Orpik (33), Scuderi (35), and Martin (33 on March 5), 75% of the Pens' top 4 is over the age when most NHL defenders are effective. Now, these guys are still good hockey players, but if I were management I'd not be in too big of a hurry to trade the young defensemen away or let Niskanen walk just yet.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Luckybreak on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:40 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:Orpik has thrown a lot of hits and also taken his share. Wear & tear is bound to occur. Between Orpik (33), Scuderi (35), and Martin (33 on March 5), 75% of the Pens' top 4 is over the age when most NHL defenders are effective. Now, these guys are still good hockey players, but if I were management I'd not be in too big of a hurry to trade the young defensemen away or let Niskanen walk just yet.


The future of the team D looks really bright. Personally I'd rather not have signed Scuds to babysit Letang (who clearly played very well with Despres). Brooks usually saves a bit for the playoffs but when you consider the overall decline in play I'm not sure he can reach those standards again.
Loyalty and the 'A' will play a part so I think it all starts with Shero asking if he wants to stay or to cash in - I'd certainly not hold anything against him considering the previous discount and would prefer to see Nisky retained and/or more of Despres/Bort, all players trending upward.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Jim on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:21 pm

Shakes wrote:I imagine Jim reading this article/thread like:

Image


I don't smoke... but yes. :)
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby sil on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:24 pm

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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby sniper on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:27 pm

I could see a team like Florida, who is going to have to sign a bunch of guys (and overpay them) this offseason to fill out a team that reaches the cap floor, or the NYI signing Brooks for $6M a year. Brooks never was an offensive force. Heck he struggles to accept a pass in the offensive zone and it takes him 3 years to shoot a slap shot, but defensively he's gotten noticeably worse. He still makes an occasional good defensive play to break up a pass and he adds physicality, but he's making too many mistakes. He can be replaced by a younger player at a fraction of the cost. It would be nice to trade him now and get something for him, but he's the type of guy you keep for a playoff run or look to add. He won't be moved.

I do think it's clear that only one of he or Niskanen will be back next year and it should be Niskanen. Defensively at worst they've been equals and Niskanen is younger and way better offensively. I think the Pens could get both for around $4M/year and Nisky likely won't require a no trade clause like Brooks. That makes him a moveable (and valuable) asset in a year or so when more young D men are ready to take his place.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby ziggo on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:38 pm

They should trade him for Ben Lovejoy :thumb:
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Penspal on Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:19 pm

Its not a bad read, but the sky is not falling.

- It very well might be that Orpik is a #7 dman on Team USA. And if so, no biggie right? Team USA needs experienced guys who will speak their mind, Orpik fits that bill.
- 95% of the dmen in the league will also crap their pants if Phill Kessel is streaking down their wing... horrible example.
- Orpik does seem to have lost a little zip, but he's still a lot better skating defenceman than Mike Colligan suggests

With respect to Orpik as a future Penguin. Orpik is in his contract year. With the logjam of quality Pens dmen, I see the Orpik situation working itself out very nicely no matter what GMRS does. And if its sign him for too much, its not Orpik's fault, its GMRS.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Paekman on Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:05 pm

Penspal wrote:- Orpik does seem to have lost a little zip, but he's still a lot better skating defenceman than Mike Colligan suggests


Respectfully disagree here. Orpik used to have pretty good straight line speed, but he's always seemed very "stiff" on his skates to me. He doesn't really change directions well at all. In recent years, his straight line speed has also markedly decreased. Just my observation.

Orpik's style of play isn't really conducive to longevity. Years worth of abdominal issues also haven't helped.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:13 pm

Penspal wrote:Its not a bad read, but the sky is not falling.

- It very well might be that Orpik is a #7 dman on Team USA. And if so, no biggie right? Team USA needs experienced guys who will speak their mind, Orpik fits that bill.
- 95% of the dmen in the league will also crap their pants if Phill Kessel is streaking down their wing... horrible example.
- Orpik does seem to have lost a little zip, but he's still a lot better skating defenceman than Mike Colligan suggests

With respect to Orpik as a future Penguin. Orpik is in his contract year. With the logjam of quality Pens dmen, I see the Orpik situation working itself out very nicely no matter what GMRS does. And if its sign him for too much, its not Orpik's fault, its GMRS.


You summed up the situation here better than Colligan, I think.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby ville5 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:19 pm

RS could easily get for Brooks what he gave up to get Crankshaft. But I fail to see how that helps with this years playoff run.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:15 pm

The only thing I disagree with is Orpik has always been aggressive in stepping up towards forwards and putting himself out of position. That isn't new. He actually did this a few of times against Detroit in the finals directly costing us goals.

This article is fine and there is truth to it, he makes good points but the reality is I never thought of Orpik as a $6 million type dmen anyways. Solid player over the years but the slip in play which has obviuolsy happened will only look like a huge slip if you overrated him to begin with.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Take the Body Shoot the Puck on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:11 pm

Pitts wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Yeah, it's pretty much on the money there...I've been debating it in my own head the last handful of games whether I'm too sentimental in wanting Orpik to stick around as a lower pairing guy and if that's at all realistic...but I do think his reputation around the league is higher than what we see on a nightly basis and I just think this could be his last season as a Penguin...

I don't believe he's traded at the deadline because playoff Orpik is still a pretty effective player and in a contract year, I have to imagine it'll be good...but if he goes, I'd love to send him off with a cherry on top to his long Penguin career...

But I subscribe to the article almost completely...

Thank you Mikey. These are my feelings exactly. How I hate watching the fall of a great warrior.
Take the Body Shoot the Puck wrote:Orpik won't be going anywhere this season and as much sense as it makes to let him walk in the offseason, somehow I see Shero bringing him back.

Sadly, I no longer feel this is a sure bet.


It's one of those things where abstractly it makes sense to let him go in the off season due to both his decline and the defensive depth we have. For some reason though, I feel like Shero will bring him back and LGP will explode.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Take the Body Shoot the Puck on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:13 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:The only thing I disagree with is Orpik has always been aggressive in stepping up towards forwards and putting himself out of position. That isn't new. He actually did this a few of times against Detroit in the finals directly costing us goals.

This article is fine and there is truth to it, he makes good points but the reality is I never thought of Orpik as a $6 million type dmen anyways. Solid player over the years but the slip in play which has obviuolsy happened will only look like a huge slip if you overrated him to begin with.


He did this last night against Ottawa too. I forget the period, but he stepped up and hit someone along the boards just forward of the blue line, and Ottawa then came in on a 2-on-1. Of course, I was shocked that this would happen (sarcasm).
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:38 pm

I was following the article nicely but then got to the 6 million dollar thi which left me questioning what i thought about the rest of the article.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Bioshock on Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:09 pm

Great article once again from Mike Colligan.

Dude knows his stuff and people like Jesse Marshall and Josh Yohe think highly of him for a reason.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby sniper on Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:23 pm

Take the Body Shoot the Puck wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:The only thing I disagree with is Orpik has always been aggressive in stepping up towards forwards and putting himself out of position. That isn't new. He actually did this a few of times against Detroit in the finals directly costing us goals.

This article is fine and there is truth to it, he makes good points but the reality is I never thought of Orpik as a $6 million type dmen anyways. Solid player over the years but the slip in play which has obviuolsy happened will only look like a huge slip if you overrated him to begin with.


He did this last night against Ottawa too. I forget the period, but he stepped up and hit someone along the boards just forward of the blue line, and Ottawa then came in on a 2-on-1. Of course, I was shocked that this would happen (sarcasm).


I thought that was Martin who stepped up by the near side boards in the third period, which he's been doing about once a game lately for unknown reasons. I'm pretty sure Orpik was the guy back defending the 2 on 1. Luckily the puck carried threw a back hand pass towards the other forward that was off target and several feet off the ice.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby guiner on Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:57 pm

Its time to let Brooks Orpik skate off into the sunset of Penguin's days gone past.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Jim on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:59 am

$6M a year for Orpik would be INSANE!!!
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby Gaucho on Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:28 am

Hell yes it would.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby zeke5123 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:21 am

sniper wrote:I could see a team like Florida, who is going to have to sign a bunch of guys (and overpay them) this offseason to fill out a team that reaches the cap floor, or the NYI signing Brooks for $6M a year. Brooks never was an offensive force. Heck he struggles to accept a pass in the offensive zone and it takes him 3 years to shoot a slap shot, but defensively he's gotten noticeably worse. He still makes an occasional good defensive play to break up a pass and he adds physicality, but he's making too many mistakes. He can be replaced by a younger player at a fraction of the cost. It would be nice to trade him now and get something for him, but he's the type of guy you keep for a playoff run or look to add. He won't be moved.

I do think it's clear that only one of he or Niskanen will be back next year and it should be Niskanen. Defensively at worst they've been equals and Niskanen is younger and way better offensively. I think the Pens could get both for around $4M/year and Nisky likely won't require a no trade clause like Brooks. That makes him a moveable (and valuable) asset in a year or so when more young D men are ready to take his place.


The bolded part seems contradictory. Why, if Orpik is so bad would we want to add/keep him? I personally would love to see Orpik go -- I think it would be addition by subtraction.
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Re: The Quiet Decline of Brooks Orpik (Mike Colligan)

Postby sil on Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:44 am

It makes more sense if you pause and remember the true fact that regular season hockey =/= playoff hockey.
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