Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:22 pm

I feel like the sames things are said, every time this subject is brought up.

1) No, Sutter isn't as complete of a player as Staal.
2) Yes, he's perfect for what the Pens needs out of a 3rd line center
3) Re-signing Staal was never an option. They offered him a similar contract that he was offered with Carolina, and he declined. He wanted to be more than a 3rd line center - a role he would never fill on a team that has Sidney Crosby & Evgeni Malkin.
4) Staal wanted to play with his brother, which killed most trade leverage with Carolina & other teams.
5) Staal, for everything that he brings to the table, was never going to be a PPG player.
6) I don't think it ever came down to Letang vs Staal. However, if it did, then they made the right call. Letang, when healthy & hitting his stride, is one of the top defensemen in the league. Staal will never be considered a top-10 center in the league. With how contracts are inflated for offensive players (example: David Clarkson), I'd rather have Letang locked up at his current $7.25 cap hit than Staal and his $6+ something cap hit for 10 years. Letang is the better value.
7) Shero should be commended in what he got for Staal. Sutter fills the exact role that the Pens needed, while still contributing 15-20 goals per year and they were able to stock pile more defensive prospects with Derrick Pouliot and Brian Dumoulin.
8) Maata wasn't part of that trade, but you can't help but think there was some butterfly effect that with them getting the extra pick and taking Pouliot with the 8th overall pick. If so, then that makes the trade even more incredible, given the way Maata has played this year.

To me, it's pointless to continuously bring this trade up, especially when the stats have maintained the same. Staal still has not "broken out" as far as his offensive game. Sutter is still Sutter. The other parts of the trade haven't been tested at the NHL level yet, nor have they been used to acquire other pieces. It's status quo and as long as things have remained status quo, then the Pens win this trade.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby no name on Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:21 pm

Staal came into this league a 20 goal scorer and has pretty much maintained that. He had that 29 goal season and had i think 7 short handed goals in that campaign. He hasn't had that ammount since then, once teams caught on he was such a threat SH they play very careful against him. He did have that big shorty vs Det. in the finals.

Good trade worked out well for us and for Jordan. I wonder if Carolina is happy with how it played out for them?
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:42 pm

no name wrote:Staal came into this league a 20 goal scorer and has pretty much maintained that. He had that 29 goal season and had i think 7 short handed goals in that campaign. He hasn't had that ammount since then, once teams caught on he was such a threat SH they play very careful against him. He did have that big shorty vs Det. in the finals.

Good trade worked out well for us and for Jordan. I wonder if Carolina is happy with how it played out for them?


Typically, the team that gets the best player normally wins the trade. Jordan Staal is the best player in the trade. He's only 25 years old and has 8 (!) years experience in the NHL and has played a huge role in winning a Stanley Cup. The Hurricanes are a bad team. Jordan Staal is not going to be a "put the team on my back" type of guy. He's not going to carry an offense. He's going to need some talent around him to produce. But once they put the pieces together, and he breaks through, I think Carolina will be happy with the trade.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby no name on Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:54 pm

Got to agree with that Crankshaft, If Carolina would have a better supporting cast they might go places. Making Jordan a much bigger piece to the puzzle. They got one line of top tier players then it drops.

Question?? If Carolina trades Ruutu can they retain part of the salary every year remaining on that deal or only the first year?
Last edited by no name on Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:57 pm

Staal would be a good second line center for a team thats heavy on scorin wings...hes not good enough to be leaned upon for offense.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby no name on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:15 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Staal would be a good second line center for a team thats heavy on scorin wings...hes not good enough to be leaned upon for offense.


I honestly thought with more ice time playing with better 2nd line wingers and even more power play time he would be on a pace for 25 goals and 50 points. I would be disappointed with him at this stage of the deal.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:21 pm

Is a guy who isn't a "put the team on my back" type of player worth $6+ million in any scenario? I'd say Jordan is a few rungs even below that...
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:30 pm

DontToewsMeBro wrote:Is a guy who isn't a "put the team on my back" type of player worth $6+ million in any scenario? I'd say Jordan is a few rungs even below that...


In a time where guys like David Clarkson and Travis Zajac are getting close to $6 million, Staal is worth that cap hit as well.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby mikey287 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:30 pm

Not saying you're right or wrong, just want to point out the adjustments in the salary cap...the upper middle class stands to benefit greatly from teams of all types...contenders needing valuable, accountable depth...and teams trying to get to the Lower Limit but cannot attract or acquire big names, will have to settle for masquerading second line players as first liners...
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:01 pm

This is a debate/comparison that really needs to stop...

It was an unavoidable situation and Shero did the best he could.

Who cares if Sutter is or isn't better than Staal, or whether or not Shero should have drafted Toews instead of Staal, Saad instead of Morrow... these discussions are about events that are out of our control because they already happened.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby guiner on Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:07 pm

Crankshaft wrote:I feel like the sames things are said, every time this subject is brought up.

1) No, Sutter isn't as complete of a player as Staal.
2) Yes, he's perfect for what the Pens needs out of a 3rd line center
3) Re-signing Staal was never an option. They offered him a similar contract that he was offered with Carolina, and he declined. He wanted to be more than a 3rd line center - a role he would never fill on a team that has Sidney Crosby & Evgeni Malkin.
4) Staal wanted to play with his brother, which killed most trade leverage with Carolina & other teams.
5) Staal, for everything that he brings to the table, was never going to be a PPG player.
6) I don't think it ever came down to Letang vs Staal. However, if it did, then they made the right call. Letang, when healthy & hitting his stride, is one of the top defensemen in the league. Staal will never be considered a top-10 center in the league. With how contracts are inflated for offensive players (example: David Clarkson), I'd rather have Letang locked up at his current $7.25 cap hit than Staal and his $6+ something cap hit for 10 years. Letang is the better value.
7) Shero should be commended in what he got for Staal. Sutter fills the exact role that the Pens needed, while still contributing 15-20 goals per year and they were able to stock pile more defensive prospects with Derrick Pouliot and Brian Dumoulin.
8) Maata wasn't part of that trade, but you can't help but think there was some butterfly effect that with them getting the extra pick and taking Pouliot with the 8th overall pick. If so, then that makes the trade even more incredible, given the way Maata has played this year.

To me, it's pointless to continuously bring this trade up, especially when the stats have maintained the same. Staal still has not "broken out" as far as his offensive game. Sutter is still Sutter. The other parts of the trade haven't been tested at the NHL level yet, nor have they been used to acquire other pieces. It's status quo and as long as things have remained status quo, then the Pens win this trade.


Yeah, its stupid to discuss this anymore. Besides the only discussion we SHOULD be having about it anyway is would we have traded Malkin over Toews.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby no name on Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:12 pm

Wasn't Malkin supposed to be traded for Kopitar??

GMRS said he never entertained trading Malkin, though he did say the GM of LA called him after hearing all the rumors about Malkin and LA trading, he called to ask Ray if "we were supposed to be talking" cause of all the rumos. Ray said no.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:30 pm

The only discussion SHOULD be why isnt Bylsma fired, but i guess other people thing about different things than I do.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Steve Dave on Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:46 pm

no name wrote:Wasn't Malkin supposed to be traded for Kopitar??

GMRS said he never entertained trading Malkin, though he did say the GM of LA called him after hearing all the rumors about Malkin and LA trading, he called to ask Ray if "we were supposed to be talking" cause of all the rumos. Ray said no.


I remember reading the rumor was Malkin for Kopitar, Brown and LA's 1st rounder which was later used to draft Doughty.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby no name on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:27 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:This is a debate/comparison that really needs to stop...

It was an unavoidable situation and Shero did the best he could.

Who cares if Sutter is or isn't better than Staal, or whether or not Shero should have drafted Toews instead of Staal, Saad instead of Morrow... these discussions are about events that are out of our control because they already happened.


If everyone totally stopped asking the "what if" questions the internet would shutdown.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby sil on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:35 pm

The funniest part about reading this thread...at least three times I've read posts that begin with, "This debate really needs to stop..." and is then immediately followed by some strongly worded opinion on the subject.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby KG on Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:48 pm

Steve Dave wrote:
no name wrote:Wasn't Malkin supposed to be traded for Kopitar??

GMRS said he never entertained trading Malkin, though he did say the GM of LA called him after hearing all the rumors about Malkin and LA trading, he called to ask Ray if "we were supposed to be talking" cause of all the rumos. Ray said no.


I remember reading the rumor was Malkin for Kopitar, Brown and LA's 1st rounder which was later used to draft Doughty.


That would have been some package....I remember hearing that as well. Not sure if there was anything to it though...
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Hawkeynut on Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:51 pm

Sutter is half the player of Staal but at 1/3 the cost.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Factorial on Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:53 pm

Staal had hands of stone from what I remember. I don't ever see him scoring more than in the low 20's in a season.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Rocco on Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:43 am

The trade confirmed what we all suspected- Staal's ceiling is "the next Bobby Holik, only without a unibrow". That's not a slam as Holik was a fine player, but you shouldn't really build a team around either. The Rangers tried it with Holik and it didn't work; Carolina's trying it with Staal and it's not working.

The bigger question to me is this: if Shero had the 2006 Draft to do all over again, does he still take Staal over Kessel? I suspect the answer is yes since 2009 doesn't happen without Staal, but Kessel's been the better player and could have been a holy terror alongside Sid.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Jim on Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:52 am

Rocco wrote:The trade confirmed what we all suspected- Staal's ceiling is "the next Bobby Holik, only without a unibrow".


I used to say it was Jamie Langenbrunner.
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