Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:06 pm

Staal is better but Sutter is cheaper. The fan in me wished we held on to him longer but the switch made sense.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:53 pm

That 10 year, $60 million contract just looks insane, in hindsight obviously. I miss Jordan, but I'm really, really happy he declined that offer from the Pens.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shmenguin on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:02 pm

Imagine staal making 6 million dollars to play with tanner glass and chris conner this year.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:10 pm

Why do we need to keep revisiting this?
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby SolidSnake on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:17 pm

shmenguin wrote:We sure did when we got completely shut down the one year we didn't have him.

So Staal would of made a difference last season against the Bruins had the Penguins kept him?
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shmenguin on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:23 pm

SolidSnake wrote:
shmenguin wrote:We sure did when we got completely shut down the one year we didn't have him.

So Staal would of made a difference last season against the Bruins had the Penguins kept him?


Some difference yes. Of course.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby mikey287 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:25 pm

Yeah, we would have only scored one goal in the series...amirite?
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby meow on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:28 pm

Bazinga
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shmenguin on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:33 pm

mikey287 wrote:Yeah, we would have only scored one goal in the series...amirite?


Clearly you aren't using the OPs stats to extrapolate the numbers correctly. We would have scored 2.2222 goals, obviously.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby mikey287 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:36 pm

Wake up...DB?
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby KG on Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:27 pm

I'm sure the Canes are unimpressed with Staal, not necessarily for what they gave up in the trade. Sutter is a 3rd line center...not a big loss...

The 10 year $60Mill contract is the killer.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby RxBandit66 on Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:40 pm

KG wrote:I'm sure the Canes are unimpressed with Staal, not necessarily for what they gave up in the trade. Sutter is a 3rd line center...not a big loss...

The 10 year $60Mill contract is the killer.


It's a killer right now, but if Staal is a 20 goal, 50 point producer all the way to the end of the deal, it will be a relative bargain by that time, as the cap will keep increasing. Still, I loved the trade at the time and still do. I still think Shero should have taken Trouba instead of Pouliot.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby The U on Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:44 pm

Sutter is fine, nothing special. He does his job and his contract is a good one. If the best thing you can say about him is "he's a lot cheaper than Staal" and "welp we also got Pouliot and Dumoulin" that tells you something. It was a good trade though, but Sutter is slightly better than "just a guy" and is replaceable.

As mentioned by a few, I think his overall game and what he brings to the table is a little blown out of proportion.

I'm OK with re-signing him or letting him walk when the time comes.

I would like to see him center a 3rd line where he isn't expected to be the best player on the line. He has to carry line 3 right now, which doesn't play to his strength.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby scals37 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:00 am

The only thing that bothers me about Sutter is his lack of physicality..
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Eismann on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:27 am

I still view it as whatever RS could get at the time would be fine. Staal went to a meh team and is doing ok, I guess. The teams and expectations aren't really comparable.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby The U on Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:04 am

scals37 wrote:The only thing that bothers me about Sutter is his lack of physicality..


Indeed. He's 6'3 almost 200lbs. He's got a solid 2 way game.

Of course, if he added "being a pest, agitating, and being a big hitter and physical/tough/nasty player" to his game he'd probably be able to double his salary when his contract is up. Maybe he'd price himself off the team.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby sil on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:53 am

The U wrote:
scals37 wrote:The only thing that bothers me about Sutter is his lack of physicality..


Indeed. He's 6'3 almost 200lbs. He's got a solid 2 way game.

Of course, if he added "being a pest, agitating, and being a big hitter and physical/tough/nasty player" to his game he'd probably be able to double his salary when his contract is up. Maybe he'd price himself off the team.


Well, it's unlikely he's just going to suddenly become that. He'll continue to chip in a little offensively here and there and be a more silent and less costly (i.e. less time in the box) pest to the other team's best forwards...and probably do it over the next 3-4 years at $3M or $3.25M per year.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Guinness on Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:21 am

Eismann wrote:I still view it as whatever RS could get at the time would be fine. Staal went to a meh team and is doing ok, I guess. The teams and expectations aren't really comparable.


For Shero to have gotten what he did for Staal remains a minor coup. It was an open secret that Staal had turned down the offer he'd been made, and was all but gone. Getting a 3rd line center replacement - granted not of the abilities of Staal - as well as a first and top prospect was just ridiculous.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby topshelf on Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:12 am

SolidSnake wrote:The Penguins don't miss Staal


Agreed. Staal may outscore Sutter every year from now until they both retire, but if Sutter continues to bring what he brings to the team, the trade is a win for the Pens.

It's crazy to think that, in the first round of that draft, the Penguins' franchise saw Staal leave, but Sutter, Maata, Dumoulin, and Pouliot enter the system. :shock:
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby topshelf on Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:17 am

shmenguin wrote:We sure did when we got completely shut down the one year we didn't have him.


Of all of the things that we could blame that series on, I'd say the loss of Jordan Staal isn't one of them.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shmenguin on Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:03 am

I don't get it. The only way you can miss a player is if he single handedly would have won them the series? That's a little binary, don't you think? Staal is a better player who had better chemistry with the players in the lineup. We missed that in the Boston series. I thought that was pretty obvious.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby pcmforless on Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:35 am

All the ladies in Pittsburgh miss Staal :)
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby penny lane on Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:03 pm

I never think Brandon Sutter will score when he has the puck. I love defense and he provides defense on the PK; could be he is more important in that aspect than 3rd line center.
Sutter as the 3rd line center makes it easier for coaches to prepare against the pens.
Staal provided clutch goals and could score on breakaways; even shorthanded goals.

fyi, as a girl :D, I don't dig blondes.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:06 pm

I think the one reason this is such an ongoing topic is that we really, and I mean really, miss not what Staal brought but what his line brought before his last year here when he seemed to forget as well.

People forget it was Staal and Kennedy whose neutral zone turnovers and relentless forechecking were what won us game 6 against Detroit and had a large hand in game 4. They also forget our 2nd line won game 7 basically the exact same way as our 3rd line won game 6 - a neutral zone turnover and a forecheck turnover turning into goals.

I would also argue people generally really miss the old Kunitz, Talbot and Fedetenko type of play and we hold onto that because this team particular team is missing it so much.

I think Sutter is a fine player, I really do but he is not going to create momentum to turn a game around. You either need to get a different type of line-mates or count on a player or two in your top two lines to do it.

Finally my last point. Without the Staal trade GMRS and his master plan of drafting PMDM is absolute poop. We would right now for arguments sake have 3 guys with real solid potential or trade potential and barely a forward. Maybe he doesn't trade Morrow but still we would have Matta and Despres - Harrington who probably does not carry as great of trade value. All this discussion about this trade deadline would be way different. In fact I would argue we would be in a really tough spot.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shmenguin on Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:14 pm

I don't follow. Without dumoulin and pouliot, we still have depres and harrington waiting to step in. We could also be dangling them as trade bait, and still be ok. We just lose the luxury of having infinity dmen in the system - which, again, is a luxury. Don't get me wrong, from an asset management POV, that trade was a stunning success, but it didn't really address any specific need - aside from getting a good not great 3rd line center.
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