The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey Team

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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Nizzy on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:51 pm

skullman80 wrote:At this point I'd rather the Pens just say hey were are are built as a run and gun team.. and just run and gun. At least have some identity. If they go down in a blaze glory so be it, it would at least be on their terms.


Nice post SM80. This is what I was talking about after game 2. They look like a fast team at times.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Desiato on Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:12 am

Here are some interesting quotes from past/present Pens about HCDB's system:

Ben Lovejoy:

“When it works,” former Penguins defenseman Ben Lovejoy said, “it looks so pretty.”
“It wasn't the right system for me,” Lovejoy said.
“It's complex,” Lovejoy said. “They're so talented that they usually pull it off. They have people who do it very, very well.”
Lovejoy explained that, when it is clicking on all cylinders, the Penguins' system is a thing of beauty. One minor mistake, though, can create a disaster.

TK:

“We use so much more puck support in San Jose,” he said. “We were more about getting the puck out and taking care of our own end.”

Brenden Morrow:

“With the system they use in Pittsburgh,” former Penguins forward Brenden Morrow said, “they like to make the puck do most of the work.”
“We definitely use a safer style,” Morrow said. “A lot more puck support. That doesn't mean Pittsburgh's system doesn't work. They have the speed and talent to pull it off. But it's not easy. And I didn't have the speed to make it work with my game.”

Paul Martin:

“Our forwards are so good,” defenseman Paul Martin said. “It's basically drilled into our heads that we are to get them the puck as quickly as possible.”
“As a player,” Martin said, “you have to realize that some of those plays aren't always there. So there are times when you really can't rush things.”
“I like it,” Martin said. “So much of it is timing. We have to be on the same page. But it's an aggressive style, and I think it gives us a chance to do a lot of good things.”

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/byl ... yof/nfZwk/

The Pens played a style that twice got them to the SCF and won a cup. It is beyond stupid to scrap a winning formula to play what amounts to pond hockey for five years - against all conventional hockey wisdom. Pure arrogance.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby bhaw on Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:27 am



Doesn't change much, does it? The team is making an absurd number of execution and mental mistakes. The coach said the compete level isn't up to snuff. The players are saying they didn't try hard enough. That's not on personnel issues created by Shero. He left some holes on the team, but none of that has to do with who is on the team. Our coach can't get enough out of the players he has and hasn't been able to for years.

The practices make people agitated because the team looks like **** against a 7 seed that was our best possible match up. Maybe the day off was scheduled, but when you blow a 3-0 lead, maybe you change that schedule a bit. Unless it's totally a non-concern... like the 1st lead in the series they gave up.

Forget that it was a practice, maybe people just want this team to show they plan on doing something different besides riding off into the sunset. The team appears totally content and unsurprised that they've blown 2 leads to the #7 Columbus Blue Jackets.

It's funny how just like last year vs the NYI, the Jackets are "way better" than people think. It's a "tough matchup." Just want this team to show they give a rat's ass about how they play. And want the coach to actually make something of the ridiculous talent he has on the team. But I guess none of this can possibly be his fault... status quo is the way to go.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby RxBandit66 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:08 am

Desiato wrote:Here are some interesting quotes from past/present Pens about HCDB's system:

Ben Lovejoy:

“When it works,” former Penguins defenseman Ben Lovejoy said, “it looks so pretty.”
“It wasn't the right system for me,” Lovejoy said.
“It's complex,” Lovejoy said. “They're so talented that they usually pull it off. They have people who do it very, very well.”
Lovejoy explained that, when it is clicking on all cylinders, the Penguins' system is a thing of beauty. One minor mistake, though, can create a disaster.

TK:

“We use so much more puck support in San Jose,” he said. “We were more about getting the puck out and taking care of our own end.”

Brenden Morrow:

“With the system they use in Pittsburgh,” former Penguins forward Brenden Morrow said, “they like to make the puck do most of the work.”
“We definitely use a safer style,” Morrow said. “A lot more puck support. That doesn't mean Pittsburgh's system doesn't work. They have the speed and talent to pull it off. But it's not easy. And I didn't have the speed to make it work with my game.”

Paul Martin:

“Our forwards are so good,” defenseman Paul Martin said. “It's basically drilled into our heads that we are to get them the puck as quickly as possible.”
“As a player,” Martin said, “you have to realize that some of those plays aren't always there. So there are times when you really can't rush things.”
“I like it,” Martin said. “So much of it is timing. We have to be on the same page. But it's an aggressive style, and I think it gives us a chance to do a lot of good things.”

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/byl ... yof/nfZwk/

The Pens played a style that twice got them to the SCF and won a cup. It is beyond stupid to scrap a winning formula to play what amounts to pond hockey for five years - against all conventional hockey wisdom. Pure arrogance.


Excellent post. This also explains the countless drafting of defensemen by Shero (although why he signed Scuderi, an obvious candidate for NOT being able to play the system, I'll never know).

The Penguins organization has wasted a dynastic opportunity on this coach and this system. Half a decade of Sid and Geno's prime. The players have obviously lost confidence in it. Such a shame.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Nizzy on Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:08 am

How about Brian Strait? When he was basically fist pumping his way out of Pittsburgh to the Islanders.

I love how Shero drafts all these young prospects that need development time, and confidence at the NHL level. 1 small mistake and it's Deryk Engelland, fringe NHLer, playing over them for the next 6 games. How is Shero okay with that stuff?

Fire Bylsma.
Fire Shero.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby IanMoran on Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:39 am

I hate Rossi more than anyone, but blaming him for people freaking out because he used The word cancel is a bit much...
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby columbia on Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:13 am

I don't understand the controversy. Who claimed that practice was "cancelled?"

Either way, this seems detached from reality:

It’s also been wild – blown multiple-goal leads in Games 1-4 for the first time in NHL history – and wonderfully dramatic. Mostly, though, it’s been what I expected: tight, hard, and never really with the Penguins in danger of losing.

Yeah, they still haven’t trailed in terms of games.


The Jackets could easily take this series, if they Pens don't step up their game.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby SolidSnake on Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:18 am

All I know is Rossi loves him some Bylsma
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby owtahear on Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:01 am

RxBandit66 wrote:
Desiato wrote:Here are some interesting quotes from past/present Pens about HCDB's system:

Ben Lovejoy:

“When it works,” former Penguins defenseman Ben Lovejoy said, “it looks so pretty.”
“It wasn't the right system for me,” Lovejoy said.
“It's complex,” Lovejoy said. “They're so talented that they usually pull it off. They have people who do it very, very well.”
Lovejoy explained that, when it is clicking on all cylinders, the Penguins' system is a thing of beauty. One minor mistake, though, can create a disaster.

TK:

“We use so much more puck support in San Jose,” he said. “We were more about getting the puck out and taking care of our own end.”

Brenden Morrow:

“With the system they use in Pittsburgh,” former Penguins forward Brenden Morrow said, “they like to make the puck do most of the work.”
“We definitely use a safer style,” Morrow said. “A lot more puck support. That doesn't mean Pittsburgh's system doesn't work. They have the speed and talent to pull it off. But it's not easy. And I didn't have the speed to make it work with my game.”

Paul Martin:

“Our forwards are so good,” defenseman Paul Martin said. “It's basically drilled into our heads that we are to get them the puck as quickly as possible.”
“As a player,” Martin said, “you have to realize that some of those plays aren't always there. So there are times when you really can't rush things.”
“I like it,” Martin said. “So much of it is timing. We have to be on the same page. But it's an aggressive style, and I think it gives us a chance to do a lot of good things.”

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/byl ... yof/nfZwk/

The Pens played a style that twice got them to the SCF and won a cup. It is beyond stupid to scrap a winning formula to play what amounts to pond hockey for five years - against all conventional hockey wisdom. Pure arrogance.


Excellent post. This also explains the countless drafting of defensemen by Shero (although why he signed Scuderi, an obvious candidate for NOT being able to play the system, I'll never know).

The Penguins organization has wasted a dynastic opportunity on this coach and this system. Half a decade of Sid and Geno's prime. The players have obviously lost confidence in it. Such a shame.


Well said. What is most concerning, and some things you can chalk up to luck and injuries, but the Pens made the SCF's in 2008. They won in 2009. 2010 bad exit to the Habs. 2011 the disastrous injury year. 2012, the Flyers disaster. 2013 The sweep by Boston Strong. This is now year #7 since the first foray into the Finals.

The expiration date for this team as a Cup Contender is near. Maybe, actually they got to the Cup a year too early. But it isn't often that team's are contenders for 7-8 straight years, especially now in a Cap era.

And we hear all this talk about great forwards, the Pens only have 4 true top 6 forwards, (well 5 but Disco Dan seems determined to Depres Beau Bennett)....even Pascal Dupuis is better suited as a 3rd line guy (hell he was a 4th liner in 2009). So if this system is predicated on puck moving defenseman and elite forwards, then......well......the results are expected.

Then again, it works in the regular season and playing with a team full of bus riders (WB/S) this year because of all the injuries, the Pens and HCDB did well. Same in 2011 when Sid, Geno and Staal were injured for most of the year.

I will give my critiques of HCDB in another post.
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Re: The Anatomy of an Undisciplined, Poorly Coached Hockey T

Postby Desiato on Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:41 pm

Desiato wrote:Here are some interesting quotes from past/present Pens about HCDB's system:

Ben Lovejoy:

“When it works,” former Penguins defenseman Ben Lovejoy said, “it looks so pretty.”
“It wasn't the right system for me,” Lovejoy said.
“It's complex,” Lovejoy said. “They're so talented that they usually pull it off. They have people who do it very, very well.”
Lovejoy explained that, when it is clicking on all cylinders, the Penguins' system is a thing of beauty. One minor mistake, though, can create a disaster.

TK:

“We use so much more puck support in San Jose,” he said. “We were more about getting the puck out and taking care of our own end.”

Brenden Morrow:

“With the system they use in Pittsburgh,” former Penguins forward Brenden Morrow said, “they like to make the puck do most of the work.”
“We definitely use a safer style,” Morrow said. “A lot more puck support. That doesn't mean Pittsburgh's system doesn't work. They have the speed and talent to pull it off. But it's not easy. And I didn't have the speed to make it work with my game.”

Paul Martin:

“Our forwards are so good,” defenseman Paul Martin said. “It's basically drilled into our heads that we are to get them the puck as quickly as possible.”
“As a player,” Martin said, “you have to realize that some of those plays aren't always there. So there are times when you really can't rush things.”
“I like it,” Martin said. “So much of it is timing. We have to be on the same page. But it's an aggressive style, and I think it gives us a chance to do a lot of good things.”

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/byl ... yof/nfZwk/


This all went out the window tonight.
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