Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:44 am

I think since the acquisition of Stempniak the idea has been to see who fits better with Sid once BB was healthy.

Because both players are good on Sid's line I think the real question should be is who makes the third line stronger, because the third line has been a glaring weakness of this team's depth. Unfortunately, with Malkin injured the Penguins will not able to try any of this properly before the playoffs.

One thing I don't like the idea of is Jokinen on the third line. Jokinen is a player who thrives next to talent and disappears anywhere else. I don't mean this as a knock to Jokinen, but it's just the reality of the situation and he serves this team better next to Gino than next to Sutter or Goc whereas Stempniak or BB will probably do well in either spot.
Last edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:45 am

The bad - Jussi Jokinen has been absolutely terrible since the Olympics. The worst parts of his game are showing more and more. There is a reason that Carolina begged us to take him. He is not strong enough on the puck and some of his decision making is not in keeping with the conservative puck management agenda. Only Malkin and Sid should be making the kind of blind, high risk passes that he has been making of late.

Makes me wonder if he is, in fact, a suitable 3rd liner when Malkin comes back. Stemper or Bennett are probably dooming themselves there with their more responsible play.

BTW, congrats to Stempniak on somehow coaxing a goal out of Adams. He should get a dozen assists for that!
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:48 am

meecrofilm wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Bennett has said a few times that he can play either side. But I think on the right with Sid or Sutter is where he adds the most to this roster. Malkin and Neal don't need another creator, they need more of what Jokinen does, a facilitator, the little things, defensive conscience, occasional finish.


Actually, what they need is a better presence along the boards. Bennett >> Jokinen when it comes to winning 1-on-1 puck battles.


Yea, the entire team needs better presence along the boards. You could say that about every line.

Malkin and Neal are gonna do what they do. Jokinen is good at finding ways to augment that and contribute. I think Bennett has the potential to add more with the way he sees the ice and that he would have more creative space, if that makes sense, on lines 1 or 3 than with Malkin and Neal.

Either way, nice options for DB to have.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:50 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I think since the acquisition of Stempniak the idea has been to see who fits better with Sid once BB was healthy.

Because both players are good on Sid's line I think the real question should be is who makes the third line stronger, because the third line has been a glaring weakness of this team's depth. Unfortunately, with Malkin injured the Penguins will not able to try any of this properly before the playoffs.

One thing I don't like the idea of is Jokinen on the third line. Jokinen is a player who thrives next to talent and disappears anywhere else. I don't mean this as a knock to Jokinen, but it's just the reality of the situation and he serves this team better next to Gino than next to Sutter or Goc whereas Stempniak or BB will probably do well in either spot.


Well said :thumb:
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:52 am

The Snapshot wrote:The bad - Jussi Jokinen has been absolutely terrible since the Olympics. The worst parts of his game are showing more and more. There is a reason that Carolina begged us to take him. He is not strong enough on the puck and some of his decision making is not in keeping with the conservative puck management agenda. Only Malkin and Sid should be making the kind of blind, high risk passes that he has been making of late.

Makes me wonder if he is, in fact, a suitable 3rd liner when Malkin comes back. Stemper or Bennett are probably dooming themselves there with their more responsible play.

BTW, congrats to Stempniak on somehow coaxing a goal out of Adams. He should get a dozen assists for that!


Jokinen is a tricky player to gauge. As I said previously to your comment, Jokinen is a player who thrives next talent and disappears everywhere else. This is not a bad thing per-se because sometimes it's hard to find players who can handle playing with elite players.

Jokinen can't always be gauged upon his stats(not saying you were doing that), but Jokinen is kind of like Dupuis in the sense that even if he doesn't show up on the score sheet frequently doesn't mean he wasn't strong on the ice. The difference is you may not always notice Jokinen like you do Dupuis and that's also not a bad thing.

Jokinen has a quiet but effective game and is RARELY a liability. Not being a liability is a major asset on a team like the Pens.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:54 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I think since the acquisition of Stempniak the idea has been to see who fits better with Sid once BB was healthy.

Because both players are good on Sid's line I think the real question should be is who makes the third line stronger, because the third line has been a glaring weakness of this team's depth. Unfortunately, with Malkin injured the Penguins will not able to try any of this properly before the playoffs.

One thing I don't like the idea of is Jokinen on the third line. Jokinen is a player who thrives next to talent and disappears anywhere else. I don't mean this as a knock to Jokinen, but it's just the reality of the situation and he serves this team better next to Gino than next to Sutter or Goc whereas Stempniak or BB will probably do well in either spot.


Jokinen came here and filled in for Sid. He didn't play with Malkin and had over a point per game and 7 goals in 10 games. Small sample size, but definitely proves he doesn't always disappear anywhere else.

Granted he looks better playing with Malkin, but he still looked fine during that time when filling in for Sid. There's potential.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Jesse on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:04 am

The top line with Bennett got a little too fancy for my tastes last night. I think that's ultimately why Bylsma moved Neal up to that unit later in the game.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pavel Bure on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:05 am

The Snapshot wrote:
Pavel Bure wrote:Pens play bad team, Pens beat bad team.


Carolina is good then?

More like not much to garner from a game against a bad team when the team wins. Many times they beat a bad team it's simply because that bad team is overwhelmed by the Pens fire power.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:09 am

More from the PG on last night's game.
P Maurice talking about Evgeni!
Maurice knows Penguins
Although Maurice never coached the Penguins, he has worked with more than a few of their players. He had forwards Craig Adams, Brandon Sutter and Jussi Jokinen in Carolina and Evgeni Malkin with Magnitogorsk of the Kontinental Hockey League during the NHL lockout just over a year ago.
Maurice's observations:
* "I was just absolutely amazed at [Malkin's] work ethic. He didn't need to be [so committed]. We were in Magnitogorsk. No cameras there. He was such a fantastic example of professionalism and a great leader for those young guys."


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/peng ... z2xvi7bTmt
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby columbia on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:10 am

Pffffft....Malkin is lazy.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby wondermoose on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:11 am

Jesse wrote:The top line with Bennett got a little too fancy for my tastes last night. I think that's ultimately why Bylsma moved Neal up to that unit later in the game.


My concern with Bennett is that you get the most from him when he's carrying the puck. He was making play after play the first couple of games and, while I thought the top line played pretty well, I think Beau probably helps the Sutter or Jokinen lines a lot more. Sid, Stemp, and Kunitz have been just fine.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:12 am

The Bennett or Stump on the first line question is a good problem to have and I'm fine with either. They are both looking quite good.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Jesse on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:16 am

Guys, I've been watching hockey for my entire life and I cannot explain what it is about Paul Martin that just inexplicably brings out the best in Brooks Orpik. After a really bad month without him, Orpik's Corsi-For percentage was 75% last night with Martin. Only three shooting attempts against that pairing.

I don't care if its something we can never understand, Paul Martin is a wizard and I love it.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:16 am

Everyone has their own opinions it seems but for me, elite talent like BB needs to play with elite talent because when the chemistry kicks in, the potential is so much higher. Stemper is a serviceable player and I like him but he is a 2nd/3rd liner guy, exactly what we needed on this team. With all of the pieces healthy, this is actually a pretty decent team if they play responsibly.

I think I forgot how good Martin was.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:18 am

Hawkeynut wrote:- I am left wanting from that 2nd line. Get well soon Geno!


I'm probably giving Bylsma more credit than he deserves, but I believe last night's lines were set up in preparation for playoffs (ie: the return of Malkin & Goc)

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Gibbons - Jokinen - Neal
Megna - Sutter - Stempniak
Glass - Adams - Pyatt

those lines make for a much easier transition to something like...

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal
Gibbons - Goc - Stempniak
Glass - Sutter - Adams
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:19 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Everyone has their own opinions it seems but for me, elite talent like BB needs to play with elite talent because when the chemistry kicks in, the potential is so much higher. Stemper is a serviceable player and I like him but he is a 2nd/3rd liner guy, exactly what we needed on this team. With all of the pieces healthy, this is actually a pretty decent team if they play responsibly.

I think I forgot how good Martin was.


I think the best way to sum up how good Martin is, is "he makes Orpik look serviceable".
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby darkstar57 on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:20 am

wondermoose wrote:
Jesse wrote:The top line with Bennett got a little too fancy for my tastes last night. I think that's ultimately why Bylsma moved Neal up to that unit later in the game.


My concern with Bennett is that you get the most from him when he's carrying the puck. He was making play after play the first couple of games and, while I thought the top line played pretty well, I think Beau probably helps the Sutter or Jokinen lines a lot more. Sid, Stemp, and Kunitz have been just fine.


I actually think that is why you need BB with Crosby. Teams limit Crosby time and space in the playoffs, by having BB carry the puck, it prevents teams from shut down Sid and that line losing its effectiveness.

Stemp-Sutter-Megna (i hope he stays there over gibbons) should really grind the other teams down along the wall and work a good cycle
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pavel Bure on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:22 am

I will say holy crap is Scuderi bad. Bad skating, bad decision making, panics every time the puck touches his stick.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Jesse on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:23 am

darkstar57 wrote:
wondermoose wrote:
Jesse wrote:The top line with Bennett got a little too fancy for my tastes last night. I think that's ultimately why Bylsma moved Neal up to that unit later in the game.


My concern with Bennett is that you get the most from him when he's carrying the puck. He was making play after play the first couple of games and, while I thought the top line played pretty well, I think Beau probably helps the Sutter or Jokinen lines a lot more. Sid, Stemp, and Kunitz have been just fine.


I actually think that is why you need BB with Crosby. Teams limit Crosby time and space in the playoffs, by having BB carry the puck, it prevents teams from shut down Sid and that line losing its effectiveness.

Stemp-Sutter-Megna (i hope he stays there over gibbons) should really grind the other teams down along the wall and work a good cycle


The proof that BB is a top line winger comes from the penalty he drew early in the game when he cut into the slot looking for a high percentage shot. This kids hands have been elite since his time in the BCHL with the Vee's. I love BB with Sid, I just hope it doesn't turn into Barnum and Bailey out there.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby tfrizz on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:23 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:I think since the acquisition of Stempniak the idea has been to see who fits better with Sid once BB was healthy.

Because both players are good on Sid's line I think the real question should be is who makes the third line stronger, because the third line has been a glaring weakness of this team's depth. Unfortunately, with Malkin injured the Penguins will not able to try any of this properly before the playoffs.

One thing I don't like the idea of is Jokinen on the third line. Jokinen is a player who thrives next to talent and disappears anywhere else. I don't mean this as a knock to Jokinen, but it's just the reality of the situation and he serves this team better next to Gino than next to Sutter or Goc whereas Stempniak or BB will probably do well in either spot.


The best thing about Stempniak, moreso than Goc, is his versatility. He's a guy who's logged a lot of time on the PK, and on the PP, and played up and down the lineup. He's skilled enough that he can play with Crosby or Malkin, and gritty enough that he can play on the 3rd/4th line if needed.

I stand by my belief that the addition of Stempniak + Goc makes the Pens a better team than if they'd actually traded for Kesler.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:24 am

tfrizz wrote:
Hawkeynut wrote:- I am left wanting from that 2nd line. Get well soon Geno!


I'm probably giving Bylsma more credit than he deserves, but I believe last night's lines were set up in preparation for playoffs (ie: the return of Malkin & Goc)

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Gibbons - Jokinen - Neal
Megna - Sutter - Stempniak
Glass - Adams - Pyatt

those lines make for a much easier transition to something like...

Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal
Gibbons - Goc - Stempniak
Glass - Sutter - Adams


DK was just on Triblive Radio and strongly implied that BB to the top line was Sid's idea. He also seemed to think that Malkin won't be ready for round 1...
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:27 am

In regards to Fleury, I've liked the fact that most of the goals have to go around him, he's not as leaky as years past. Goals are either coming from traffic, deflections, scrums, screens, or just great shots.

Now the penguins defense - they let far too much traffic, screens, scrums for rebounds, good open looks happen to be comfortable.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:32 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:In regards to Fleury, I've liked the fact that most of the goals have to go around him, he's not as leaky as years past. Goals are either coming from traffic, deflections, scrums, screens, or just great shots.

Now the penguins defense - they let far too much traffic, screens, scrums for rebounds, good open looks happen to be comfortable.


Part of the reason for that is the increased offensive zone time the Pens opponents have gotten, mostly due to the fact that Martin and Letang have not been present to be able to skate the puck out of danger. For the Pens to be a legit contender for the Cup this year, they MUST have both of those guys in the lineup.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby meow on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:41 am

Jesse wrote:Guys, I've been watching hockey for my entire life and I cannot explain what it is about Paul Martin that just inexplicably brings out the best in Brooks Orpik. After a really bad month without him, Orpik's Corsi-For percentage was 75% last night with Martin. Only three shooting attempts against that pairing.

I don't care if its something we can never understand, Paul Martin is a wizard and I love it.

Wizardry, trust, chemistry, black magic, mind-melt. A combination of all these elements.
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Re: Game 77 vs. Jets - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Gaucho on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:49 am

Hopefully Letang can do the same for Scuderi. Or vice versa. Or just play Despres.
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