Andrew Ebbett recalled

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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:52 am

skullman80 wrote:How "heavy" a team is seems to be the new "in" thing with broadcast teams and the league in general. I think it's pretty silly. I don't care if a guy is 150 or 250... I care if he can play hockey. You don't a team of all smurfs who way 150 lbs, or all guys who are 6'7 and way 265, but I think the emphasis put on how "heavy" a team is can be a bit much.

Ebbett whether is is 5'9 173, or 6'5 and 240.. still is a pretty "meh" at best hockey player. So I'm not sure why it matters.


The trendy use of the word "heavy", like "net front presence", is silly. Regardless, the issue of the size of a hockey team and the effects over the course of a season or playoff series is very real.

Obviously the size of any one player doesn't matter. The cumulative effect of being one of the smallest teams in the league, especially on the battlefield of a seven game series, does matter.

When Shero first arrived he said that he wanted to be tough to play against and then went and added grit and size to the skill he had been given and won a cup. Then, inexplicably, he began a downsizing of the roster that continues to this day with the recall of Ebbett. Why?
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:05 pm

I neer understand how these things catch on like this. This is not quite as stupid as net fron presence, but its still bad.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:26 pm

I know it's dumb because the LA Kings twitter feed is all over it.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby The U on Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:30 pm

Jokinen out tonight. Injury not serious.

per twitter
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby Tico Rick on Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:56 pm

Are you jokinen? I thought for sure it would be the wrist guy.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby Geezer on Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:25 pm

Maybe Conner's healthy now and Disco is going to play him, Gibbons and Ebbett as the Munchkin line. I no longer pay attention to who Bylsma dresses; it's way too aggravating. I just hope for the best and if it don't work I hope management addresses it before Sid and Geno are 40 and the team still stinks in the playoffs.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby Great58 on Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:37 pm

Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
skullman80 wrote:How "heavy" a team is seems to be the new "in" thing with broadcast teams and the league in general. I think it's pretty silly. I don't care if a guy is 150 or 250... I care if he can play hockey. You don't a team of all smurfs who way 150 lbs, or all guys who are 6'7 and way 265, but I think the emphasis put on how "heavy" a team is can be a bit much.

Ebbett whether is is 5'9 173, or 6'5 and 240.. still is a pretty "meh" at best hockey player. So I'm not sure why it matters.


The trendy use of the word "heavy", like "net front presence", is silly. Regardless, the issue of the size of a hockey team and the effects over the course of a season or playoff series is very real.

Obviously the size of any one player doesn't matter. The cumulative effect of being one of the smallest teams in the league, especially on the battlefield of a seven game series, does matter.


Are you sure? http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/20 ... hl.bb.html
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby Geezer on Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:40 pm

A good little man is hard to beat. But a good big man will beat him every time. Ebbetts, Gibbons and Conner aren't even all that good.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby RxBandit66 on Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:10 pm

You can have ONE guy like Conner, Gibbons, or Ebbett IF you have one big guy and another very physical guy on the line with them. One of those players could work on a line with, say, Jordan Staal and Matt Cooke.

But I don't understand how the Pens are dressing these types of players and Bylsma still is trying to out-hit and out grind the other team. Imagine Gibbons standing between Chara and Lucic. It's comical.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby penscup on Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:27 pm

MRandall25 wrote:He's been seen shaking his hand on the bench during the last 2 or 3 games, and sat from 9:35 till there was 1 minute left last game. I think Bennett would be the safe assumption at this point.


Every injury is different, but speaking as someone who has broken their wrist, I can tell you from personal experience that shaking it or flexing it frequently is not necessarily a bad thing or cause for alarm, even months or years after the injury. It actually feels good to try and loosen up the the joint and get the blood flowing better through there. Again, just my personal experience, but I do the same thing even years after my injury especially when doing physical exercise so hopefully that is all you see Bennett doing as well, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby largegarlic on Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

I'm kind of torn/puzzled about the seeming increased preference for small guys as well. I was thinking possible explanations might be:

1. If you're drafting later on and/or looking for undrafted guys/waiver wire pick-ups, you're not going to find someone with size, skill, and enough skating ability to be effective. You're going to find largely useless big guys like Tangradi and Pyatt. Maybe Shero figured he has a better chance focusing on smaller skilled guys with speed and hoping one of them turns out to be a St. Louis-esque diamond in the rough.

2. Maybe there has been a conscious decision to make the Pens faster. A big part of the hole they dug against the Isles was due to lack of speed. The Pens' attempt to physically match the Bruins didn't go well, while Toronto's speed gave Boston problems (and the Bruins seem to have trouble with the Canadians' speed as well judging by the couple games I've seen between them this season).
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby bhaw on Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:57 am

I feel like this debate could easily be solved with one game of old school NES Ice Hockey.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:03 am

I generally win with the "all-heavy" team.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby bhaw on Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:00 am

Great58 wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
skullman80 wrote:How "heavy" a team is seems to be the new "in" thing with broadcast teams and the league in general. I think it's pretty silly. I don't care if a guy is 150 or 250... I care if he can play hockey. You don't a team of all smurfs who way 150 lbs, or all guys who are 6'7 and way 265, but I think the emphasis put on how "heavy" a team is can be a bit much.

Ebbett whether is is 5'9 173, or 6'5 and 240.. still is a pretty "meh" at best hockey player. So I'm not sure why it matters.


The trendy use of the word "heavy", like "net front presence", is silly. Regardless, the issue of the size of a hockey team and the effects over the course of a season or playoff series is very real.

Obviously the size of any one player doesn't matter. The cumulative effect of being one of the smallest teams in the league, especially on the battlefield of a seven game series, does matter.


Are you sure? http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/20 ... hl.bb.html


Your article doesn't really refute anything. It just shows how individual players perform, which was not his point at all. I don't know the answer, but it would more interesting to see where each of the last 10 or so winners of the Cup ranked in terms of size.

Sid is relatively small for a hockey player, so he would fit right into the article in your graph. But our team in 2009 was overall larger than what it is now (I believe). So that would basically fit in with both the article and Chirpin Grinder's point.

Ultimately, as long as the team makeup matches their style and works against their opponents, it doesn't really matter which way you go. If you have a small team, it wouldn't make sense to use a heavy forecheck/cycling system that relies on guys protecting the puck down low. Likewise, I wouldn't put a big team into a transitional perimeter style of play b/c why have big bodies?

I'm not sure if Shero is trying to transition to team towards a smaller team, but some of his personnel choices don't match how we play. I blame DB for a lot, but you can't blame him for playing a small team when that's what he has to work with. How he deploys them leaves a lot to be desired, but he can only work with what Shero gave him.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:24 pm

bhaw wrote:
Great58 wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
skullman80 wrote:How "heavy" a team is seems to be the new "in" thing with broadcast teams and the league in general. I think it's pretty silly. I don't care if a guy is 150 or 250... I care if he can play hockey. You don't a team of all smurfs who way 150 lbs, or all guys who are 6'7 and way 265, but I think the emphasis put on how "heavy" a team is can be a bit much.

Ebbett whether is is 5'9 173, or 6'5 and 240.. still is a pretty "meh" at best hockey player. So I'm not sure why it matters.


The trendy use of the word "heavy", like "net front presence", is silly. Regardless, the issue of the size of a hockey team and the effects over the course of a season or playoff series is very real.

Obviously the size of any one player doesn't matter. The cumulative effect of being one of the smallest teams in the league, especially on the battlefield of a seven game series, does matter.


Are you sure? http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/20 ... hl.bb.html


Your article doesn't really refute anything. It just shows how individual players perform, which was not his point at all. I don't know the answer, but it would more interesting to see where each of the last 10 or so winners of the Cup ranked in terms of size.

Sid is relatively small for a hockey player, so he would fit right into the article in your graph. But our team in 2009 was overall larger than what it is now (I believe). So that would basically fit in with both the article and Chirpin Grinder's point.

Ultimately, as long as the team makeup matches their style and works against their opponents, it doesn't really matter which way you go. If you have a small team, it wouldn't make sense to use a heavy forecheck/cycling system that relies on guys protecting the puck down low. Likewise, I wouldn't put a big team into a transitional perimeter style of play b/c why have big bodies?

I'm not sure if Shero is trying to transition to team towards a smaller team, but some of his personnel choices don't match how we play. I blame DB for a lot, but you can't blame him for playing a small team when that's what he has to work with. How he deploys them leaves a lot to be desired, but he can only work with what Shero gave him.


:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

The seeming disconnect between Shero and DB is perplexing. When Shero first arrived he recognized the need for size and grit and the value in being a team that is tough to play against. He brought in big, mean and nasty men that set a tone and complemented the young skill. It was a great formula. After the cup Shero has continuously allowed these types of players to get away and, more importantly, has failed to replace them. In the current situation, DB has been given an incredibly flawed roster and the injuries haven't helped. But, Bylsmagic-like, Disco has steadfastly refused to adjust, instead insisting that they "want to be a grind team in the offensive zone" despite clearly not having the horses to do so.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby columbia on Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:28 pm

What style would you like them to play and please specifically speak to how that style would get them past a team like Boston.
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Re: Andrew Ebbett recalled

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:50 pm

columbia wrote:What style would you like them to play and please specifically speak to how that style would get them past a team like Boston.


With this roster I think they should scrap the approach of ever trying to come out and out hit any opponent, especially against the Bruins and Flyers. They don't have the bodies to do it even if the guys are willing. Its a losing battle over a seven game series and doesn't play to this personnel's skill set.

I'd like to see them break out and come up the ice more as a five man unit, three guys behind the puck, short passes and enter the zone with possession. They have the skill for this.

I'd like to never again see all three forwards on the attacking side of the red line while the d-men are still in the d-zone, as we often see currently.

They don't have the bodies to chip and chase and consistently separate d-men from pucks. They just don't. Once they get possession, in any zone, the goal should be to keep the puck and not just get north/south ASAP. If they have to circle back and regroup before entering the zone, so be it.

A trapping/counter attack style similar to Martin's Ottawa and Montreal teams would seem to me to be a natural fit and the only hope for this roster.
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