Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby columbia on Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:20 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
darkstar57 wrote:Bylsma always seems to get the most out of depleted lineup


This is what always baffles me.

Bylsma had them playing a tight solid responsible system. If he could get them to play like that with Sid and Gino in the line-up they'd run over teams.




Is he hasn't been able to by now, what leads one to believe that it will happen?
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:20 am

Well, Payerl is a Canadian forward listed at 6'3". Not a U.S. born smurf, so things are getting better.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby shmenguin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:25 am

there's a balance between "coach getting the most out of his players" and "other team not taking the game seriously because of the comical opposition". last night probably fell somewhere in between - like when we lost to detroit recently.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:35 am

columbia wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
darkstar57 wrote:Bylsma always seems to get the most out of depleted lineup


This is what always baffles me.

Bylsma had them playing a tight solid responsible system. If he could get them to play like that with Sid and Gino in the line-up they'd run over teams.




Is he hasn't been able to by now, what leads one to believe that it will happen?


That last comment was rhetorical. I don't believe he ever will.

I've said repeatedly the Pens need a coach who's able to properly handle elite players.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby columbia on Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:36 am

My comment was also rhetorical.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Great58 on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:17 pm

Penspal wrote:Truculence? Is that you Brian Burke?

I'm going to agree, the Pens have been missing truculence since early in the year when the AHL players executed the system to a T, instead of the fancy pants unpredictability the superstars add to the lineup. ;)

At one point in the game last night I thought, maybe the current star studded lineup of Pens don't want to hit, bang and crash like they can because they know it will be returned on them?

This team needs to be physical to be involved/engaged and executing the game.

I think it's more a case of these current string of games means nothing to the veterans who don't want to risk injury before the start of the playoffs, whereas for the AHL call-ups, these games mean everything to them.

The trick now is to caputre this energy and determination over the last three home games and have the team playing it's best hockey as the stars return and the second season starts. :fist:
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:27 pm

This is why I love sports. We get demolished by the Wild and then we sit 3 of our best players, including the best in the league, and we beat a team that is 15 points better than them.


Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:35 pm

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:This is why I love sports. We get demolished by the Wild and then we sit 3 of our best players, including the best in the league, and we beat a team that is 15 points better than them.


Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


It actually makes perfect sense.

Bylsma is incapable of properly coaching elite players. When out of the lineup he's able to grab the reigns and get the team to buckle down.

When in the line-up he allows the top guys to do whatever they want and the system falls apart.

It really just goes to show you who's in charge in the locker room.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby sil on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:39 pm

Methinks the fact that Colorado has a playoff spot secured and is simply jockeying for home-ice VS the Wild who, while comfortable, are still technically fighting to make the playoffs does play into it somewhat.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:44 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:This is why I love sports. We get demolished by the Wild and then we sit 3 of our best players, including the best in the league, and we beat a team that is 15 points better than them.


Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


It actually makes perfect sense.

Bylsma is incapable of properly coaching elite players. When out of the lineup he's able to grab the reigns and get the team to buckle down.

When in the line-up he allows the top guys to do whatever they want and the system falls apart.

It really just goes to show you who's in charge in the locker room.


There definitely is a large enough sample size to see that when Crosby and Malkin are out of the lineup this team plays very well. This is something that should be discussed at more length. I dont know if Bylsma is incapable of coaching elite players as much as elite players aren't suited for Bylsma's system.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:55 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:This is why I love sports. We get demolished by the Wild and then we sit 3 of our best players, including the best in the league, and we beat a team that is 15 points better than them.


Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


It actually makes perfect sense.

Bylsma is incapable of properly coaching elite players. When out of the lineup he's able to grab the reigns and get the team to buckle down.

When in the line-up he allows the top guys to do whatever they want and the system falls apart.

It really just goes to show you who's in charge in the locker room.


There definitely is a large enough sample size to see that when Crosby and Malkin are out of the lineup this team plays very well. This is something that should be discussed at more length. I dont know if Bylsma is incapable of coaching elite players as much as elite players aren't suited for Bylsma's system.


To your last statement, it really doesn't matter. The team obviously isn't going to move Crosby or Malkin for players that fit Bylsma's system so Bylsma is therefore the issue.

The biggest concern to me is based one what you said, "elite players aren't suited for Bylsma's system." If the Penguins wind up firing Bylsma and bring in another coach who's system either doesn't fit for Sid and Gino or a coach that doesn't know how to whip those guys into shape then firing Bylsma is pretty useless.

I honestly don't think Bylsma is a bad coach, not in the slightest and last night proved that. While he makes questionable decisions, if the entire team bought into his system the team would look very different and those questionable decisions wouldn't be so magnified. I just believe Bylsma is not the right coach.

The Penguins need someone who's in between Bylsma and Torts.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:58 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:This is why I love sports. We get demolished by the Wild and then we sit 3 of our best players, including the best in the league, and we beat a team that is 15 points better than them.


Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


It actually makes perfect sense.

Bylsma is incapable of properly coaching elite players. When out of the lineup he's able to grab the reigns and get the team to buckle down.

When in the line-up he allows the top guys to do whatever they want and the system falls apart.

It really just goes to show you who's in charge in the locker room.


There definitely is a large enough sample size to see that when Crosby and Malkin are out of the lineup this team plays very well. This is something that should be discussed at more length. I dont know if Bylsma is incapable of coaching elite players as much as elite players aren't suited for Bylsma's system.


Crosby and Malkin both became 50 goal scorers under Bylsma's system. I'm not sure of the accuracy of that last statement. Sid and Geno definitely fit a, excuse the term, high-octane offense that's supposed to keep the puck on their sticks.

Elite players like Sid and Geno need to buy-in on defense as well. That clearly isn't happening, since everything goes to **** when they come back.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby meecrofilm on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:18 pm

shmenguin wrote:there's a balance between "coach getting the most out of his players" and "other team not taking the game seriously because of the comical opposition". last night probably fell somewhere in between - like when we lost to detroit recently.


Not really. I'm sure the Avs would much prefer to have home ice against Chicago.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:21 pm

meecrofilm wrote:
shmenguin wrote:there's a balance between "coach getting the most out of his players" and "other team not taking the game seriously because of the comical opposition". last night probably fell somewhere in between - like when we lost to detroit recently.


Not really. I'm sure the Avs would much prefer to have home ice against Chicago.


Not to mention that they actually have more to play for than we do. We are literally (and have been, for a while) locked into the number 2 seed.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby meecrofilm on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:22 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Elite players like Sid and Geno need to buy-in on defense as well. That clearly isn't happening, since everything goes to **** when they come back.


Those two are generally solid in terms of their responsibilities, contrary to whatever narratives are driven along so much that people end up believing them.

It probably has more to do with the fact that many other players don't feel like they need to go 110% to win when those two are in the lineup.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:29 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:This is why I love sports. We get demolished by the Wild and then we sit 3 of our best players, including the best in the league, and we beat a team that is 15 points better than them.


Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


It actually makes perfect sense.

Bylsma is incapable of properly coaching elite players. When out of the lineup he's able to grab the reigns and get the team to buckle down.

When in the line-up he allows the top guys to do whatever they want and the system falls apart.

It really just goes to show you who's in charge in the locker room.


Finally it is known~ Brooks Orpik is elite! :D :P 8-)

I'm no expert, but in looking at a system, the players who don't have all of the skills in their bag of tricks like Geno and Sid; do well within the system. That's how the 2011 pens made the play-offs. And how they couldn't manufacture goals.
High risk with the creativity of those 2; but this is always the case with genius. 8-)
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:35 pm

penny lane wrote:That's how the 2011 pens made the play-offs. And how they couldn't manufacture goals.


To be fair, they did almost beat Tampa that year who did go to the conference finals and came close to beating the eventual Cup champion Bruins.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:41 pm

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
penny lane wrote:That's how the 2011 pens made the play-offs. And how they couldn't manufacture goals.


To be fair, they did almost beat Tampa that year who did go to the conference finals and came close to beating the eventual Cup champion Bruins.


right, lots of credit to coaching , but they lost the 7th game , 1 zip.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Desiato on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:57 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Elite players like Sid and Geno need to buy-in on defense as well. That clearly isn't happening, since everything goes to **** when they come back.


IMO, Sid and his line typically play well without the puck and are responsible with it. All three have the hearts of grinders. I think a challenge for Sid at this point in his career is learning how to better pace himself over 82 games. At roughly this point in their respective careers, both Mario and Jagr learned to play much more efficiently.

Geno is frequently reckless. I think that when Geno gets reckless, some other players take it as a license to also play with passion and without discipline. Someone needs to inform him that he's a leader on the Pens and needs to set an example.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby shmenguin on Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:03 pm

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
meecrofilm wrote:
shmenguin wrote:there's a balance between "coach getting the most out of his players" and "other team not taking the game seriously because of the comical opposition". last night probably fell somewhere in between - like when we lost to detroit recently.


Not really. I'm sure the Avs would much prefer to have home ice against Chicago.


Not to mention that they actually have more to play for than we do. We are literally (and have been, for a while) locked into the number 2 seed.


Ok, but I don't see how that refutes anything I wrote.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby meecrofilm on Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:14 pm

I think if anything they'd be even more motivated with what would appear to be a better chance at getting 2 points. Basically, not a mixture of the two, like you suggested -- no reason for them (Avs) to take any night off leading into the playoffs.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:49 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Crosby and Malkin both became 50 goal scorers under Bylsma's system. I'm not sure of the accuracy of that last statement. Sid and Geno definitely fit a, excuse the term, high-octane offense that's supposed to keep the puck on their sticks.

Elite players like Sid and Geno need to buy-in on defense as well. That clearly isn't happening, since everything goes to **** when they come back.


I think there has to be some blame put on the bottom 6 when Sid and Malkin play. All 4 lines last night played well, that isnt always the case with a healthy lineup. Last night the team as a whole looked more hungry/energized.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pitts on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:28 pm

Hmmm, it seems then, the trick to winning is to trade Crosby and Malkin.
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:57 pm

penny lane wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:This is why I love sports. We get demolished by the Wild and then we sit 3 of our best players, including the best in the league, and we beat a team that is 15 points better than them.


Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.


It actually makes perfect sense.

Bylsma is incapable of properly coaching elite players. When out of the lineup he's able to grab the reigns and get the team to buckle down.

When in the line-up he allows the top guys to do whatever they want and the system falls apart.

It really just goes to show you who's in charge in the locker room.


Finally it is known~ Brooks Orpik is elite! :D :P 8-)

I'm no expert, but in looking at a system, the players who don't have all of the skills in their bag of tricks like Geno and Sid; do well within the system. That's how the 2011 pens made the play-offs. And how they couldn't manufacture goals.
High risk with the creativity of those 2; but this is always the case with genius. 8-)


That's all pretty irrelevant since they haven't played that way for an entire season WITH Sid or Gino in the lineup, so how do we know they wouldn't thrive?
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Re: Game 79 vs Avs - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:05 pm

Desiato wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Elite players like Sid and Geno need to buy-in on defense as well. That clearly isn't happening, since everything goes to **** when they come back.


IMO, Sid and his line typically play well without the puck and are responsible with it. All three have the hearts of grinders. I think a challenge for Sid at this point in his career is learning how to better pace himself over 82 games. At roughly this point in their respective careers, both Mario and Jagr learned to play much more efficiently.

Geno is frequently reckless. I think that when Geno gets reckless, some other players take it as a license to also play with passion and without discipline. Someone needs to inform him that he's a leader on the Pens and needs to set an example.


Sid might be the most reckless person on the team with puck or at least the one person who should never be reckless since the puck is always on his stick. You could play a drinking game to how many of those reckless passes he makes per game. Gino is guilty of that too, but not to the degree of Sid.

This is where the issue of accountability comes into play. Why should the rest of the team care about mistakes if your leaders don't? When Sid and Gino deviate from the plan, the rest of the team does.
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