Go With 7 Defensemen

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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby shmenguin on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:06 am

How would depres get ice time in that situation? You're saying 7d PLUS engelland? Eesh.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:39 am

shmenguin wrote:How would depres get ice time in that situation? You're saying 7d PLUS engelland? Eesh.


That's easy, you simply bench the worst defenseman on the team;

Martin/Orpik
Niskanen/Maatta
Despres/Letang

Dress Engo as a forward.

Time to do the right thing and bench Scuderi. I mean, even little Nyquist was tossing Scuds around last night. He threw globetrottin' Rob onto Fleury and actually managed to provoke a somewhat impolite response from the timid old timer. Still, this team is woefully inept in the crease and slot and Despres is much more of a force there than Scuderi. #47 actually defends his crease and netminder with zeal.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby meow on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:41 am

Scuderi must have kicked Chirpin' Grinder's dog.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Take the Body Shoot the Puck on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:48 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:Dress engo to play 4th line wing, and despres to get ice time.

We'd be going into the playoffs better off.


Agreed. Put Glass and Engo on either side of whatever 4th line center we can field (Vitale, Goc, maybe bring up Sill?) and tell them to go out and pound everyone they see.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:58 am

meow wrote:Scuderi must have kicked Chirpin' Grinder's dog.


I just want to see the Pens win.

Scuderi is not doing anything that contributes to winning hockey and he is one of the main reasons the Pens are so easy to play against.

The Flyers and Bruins are gonna charge the net at will. Although none were #4's fault last night, all three wings goals were scored from the edge of the crease (Kindl's because Orpik allowed his man to get to Fleury). If the Wings can do that, what will Philthy or the B's do? Even Columbus has the forwards to make life miserable for Fleury if this is not addressed and, to this point, it has not been.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby RxBandit66 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:46 am

Adams is more of a liability than Scuderi IMO because they can go with 7 defensemen and cut Scuderi's minutes if needed. Also, Letang's skating can cover for Scuderi's lack of speed.

Adams is putrid in the neutral zone, and aside from the occasional blocked shot, he is awful in the defensive zone. As for the offensive zone, he never even gets there.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby DropEmJayBird on Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:43 am

shmenguin wrote:How would depres get ice time in that situation? You're saying 7d PLUS engelland? Eesh.


My comment was in regards to the injuries the penguins have had this season. With the injuries to the D-men, they could have given Adams some rest (if the intent was to have him ready for the playoffs), given Engo some experience on wing, and given Despres some experience at defense.

This would have benefited the team, and made them more prepared for the playoffs.... but the games played streak of a 4th liner outweighed it.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby shmenguin on Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:49 am

i don't think we have enough healthy centers to scratch adams at this point, so he kind of has to play right now. until malkin and vitale or goc come back, i don't know what other options we have. i thought i heard somewhere that megna has experience at center. while i wouldn't be opposed to him replacing adams...good luck with that.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby DropEmJayBird on Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:52 pm

shmenguin wrote:i don't think we have enough healthy centers to scratch adams at this point, so he kind of has to play right now. until malkin and vitale or goc come back, i don't know what other options we have. i thought i heard somewhere that megna has experience at center. while i wouldn't be opposed to him replacing adams...good luck with that.


Right now, no - of course not.

My posts are what should have been done the past few weeks... we've had more than enough centers to give adams old body a few games off, engo some experience at wing, and despres some experience on D.
If we have injuries in these playoffs - that experience/rest may have helped.

Right now - we don't have that luxery with 2 centers being out, and unfortunately an already slow adams may even be slower and failing more clearing attempts due to not really having any games off... because a 4th liners games played streak is more important than the team experience.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Grunthy on Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:06 pm

Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
meow wrote:Scuderi must have kicked Chirpin' Grinder's dog.


I just want to see th Pens win.

Scuderi is not doing anything that contributes to winning hockey and he is one of the main reasons the Pens are so easy to play against.

The Flyers and Bruins are gonna charge the net at will. Although none were #4's fault last night, all three wings goals were scored from the edge of the crease (Kindl's because Orpik allowed his man to get to Fleury). If the Wings can do that, what will Philthy or the B's do? Even Columbus has the forwards to make life miserable for Fleury if this is not addressed and, to this point, it has not been.


Scuderi is fine when he is not playing a style out of his comfort zone, like puck carrier and mover that he had to fill bc of the injuries. With letang back he will be good. In fact he has been good the last couple of games, but i know there is an agenda against him.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby shmenguin on Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:19 pm

so you guys think this adams thing is new? he looks like the exact same player he's been for the last 2 years to me. in that he's looked like he shouldn't be in the NHL.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby RxBandit66 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:07 pm

shmenguin wrote:so you guys think this adams thing is new? he looks like the exact same player he's been for the last 2 years to me. in that he's looked like he shouldn't be in the NHL.


Adams has been on borrowed time for several seasons now, you are absolutely right. When they re-upped him to that two year deal I literally facepalmed.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Puck Drama on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:12 pm

We have been waiting all season for Sudetang! We waited through broken bones, strokes, nealkerovsky kneeing and midget hockey (Gibbons).
Scudetang is the answer to all of Disco Danny's prayers. Lederi will dominate the playoffs!
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Penspal on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:18 pm

Grunthy wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
meow wrote:Scuderi must have kicked Chirpin' Grinder's dog.


I just want to see th Pens win.

Scuderi is not doing anything that contributes to winning hockey and he is one of the main reasons the Pens are so easy to play against.

The Flyers and Bruins are gonna charge the net at will. Although none were #4's fault last night, all three wings goals were scored from the edge of the crease (Kindl's because Orpik allowed his man to get to Fleury). If the Wings can do that, what will Philthy or the B's do? Even Columbus has the forwards to make life miserable for Fleury if this is not addressed and, to this point, it has not been.


Scuderi is fine when he is not playing a style out of his comfort zone, like puck carrier and mover that he had to fill bc of the injuries. With letang back he will be good. In fact he has been good the last couple of games, but i know there is an agenda against him.


I hope your right Grunthy, but I completely agree with Chirpin Grinder on this one, Scuds has done little to suggest he's ready for the playoffs.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:19 pm

I agree. I think they should find a place for either Borts or Engo in the lineup once the playoffs start.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:42 pm

I agree with the 7 defensemen strategy. I'm not as worried about Columbus/Detroit, but against the Flyers or Bruins, I think the Penguins need to be a more physical team.

Letang-Bortuzzo
Martin-Orpik
Maata-Niskanen

Engelland on the 4th line. Bortuzzo is a far more effective as a defensive defensemen than Scuderi to me, and makes less mistakes than Despres at this point. I really can't see why the Pens continue to put Scuderi out there besides how much they are paying him. I don't recall if buyouts can still occur, but if so, I pray Scuds is gone this summer.

A quick Scuds/Bort comparison:

Player-Games-Blocks-Hits-GiveAways-+/-
Scuderi-51g-84b-17h-21ga-minus7
Bort-53g-71b-132h-11ga-minus4

Bortuzzo has put similar numbers to Scuderi in blocks, a talent the Pens long coveted in Scuderi. Bortuzzo hits more, 2nd on defence in hits, gives the puck away less, and is far more physical. His penalty minutes are a lot higher, 74 to 4, however, 30-40 of those minutes are for fighting majors and a possible 10 minute misconduct. 30-40 minutes in minor penalties is not bad. For perspective, Bortuzzo's 74 minutes in penalties is 16th among all NHL defencemen, but his 12 minors rank him tied for 121st for NHL defencemen.

The lack of composure by the Neals, Malkins, and Crosbys of the past few years in the playoffs, in my view, is unacceptable, and part of the problem is the hacks/whacks and cheapshots that occur in the playoffs, the Pens don't approach "retaliation" the right way. Opposition gets under Pens skin, you send the Borts, Orpik, Glass, Engo types to step in, or deliver similar treatment back to the oppositions star players. Don't take the dumb retalitory trips, slashes, etc.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Puck Drama on Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:45 pm

Seriously? Bortuzzo over Scuderi? Maybe they can bring up Kostopolous to play over Kunitz too. While they are at it, bring up Kobasew again.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:11 pm

Puck Drama wrote:Seriously? Bortuzzo over Scuderi? Maybe they can bring up Kostopolous to play over Kunitz too. While they are at it, bring up Kobasew again.

Not sure why, Kunitz has played well all season long....Scuderi, well, hasn't. Everybody has their opinion, so I'd be interested to hear why you would continue to play Scuderi.

I've watched 90% of the Pens games this season, and while generally speaking not noticing a defensemen is a good thing, I can recall a several games where I thought man, Bortuzzo has played a good game tonight. I can't really same the same for Scuderi, except noticing several games where he's looked plain awful. If I had to rank the Pens planned top 6 defensemen going into the season versus their actual play this season, Scuderi would be my 6th defensemen. Orpik would be right above him, although he has been better of late. Scuds and Orpik remind me of the pylons Philly use to trot out as defensemen. They don't have the speed at this level, and Scuderi was extremely mis-judged....he is most definitely on the decline and not at the same level when he left Pens and started with LA. I think Bortuzzo will end up being a much cheaper option over Orpik next season. His defensive ability is not on par with Orpik in his prime, but he has the physical element the Pens sorely need, and I think he is better defensively overall then Engelland.

Martin
Niskanen
Maata
Letang
Orpik
Scuderi

Bortuzzo
Engelland
Despres

I'd play Bortuzzo or Engelland over Scuderi at this point, and possibly even Despres.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Firebird on Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:23 am

I think Scuderi is one of those players who will pay off come the playoffs.

Bortuzzo, not so much
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:37 am

FLPensFan wrote:I agree with the 7 defensemen strategy. I'm not as worried about Columbus/Detroit, but against the Flyers or Bruins, I think the Penguins need to be a more physical team.

Letang-Bortuzzo
Martin-Orpik
Maata-Niskanen

Engelland on the 4th line. Bortuzzo is a far more effective as a defensive defensemen than Scuderi to me, and makes less mistakes than Despres at this point. I really can't see why the Pens continue to put Scuderi out there besides how much they are paying him. I don't recall if buyouts can still occur, but if so, I pray Scuds is gone this summer.

A quick Scuds/Bort comparison:

Player-Games-Blocks-Hits-GiveAways-+/-
Scuderi-51g-84b-17h-21ga-minus7
Bort-53g-71b-132h-11ga-minus4

Bortuzzo has put similar numbers to Scuderi in blocks, a talent the Pens long coveted in Scuderi. Bortuzzo hits more, 2nd on defence in hits, gives the puck away less, and is far more physical. His penalty minutes are a lot higher, 74 to 4, however, 30-40 of those minutes are for fighting majors and a possible 10 minute misconduct. 30-40 minutes in minor penalties is not bad. For perspective, Bortuzzo's 74 minutes in penalties is 16th among all NHL defencemen, but his 12 minors rank him tied for 121st for NHL defencemen.

The lack of composure by the Neals, Malkins, and Crosbys of the past few years in the playoffs, in my view, is unacceptable, and part of the problem is the hacks/whacks and cheapshots that occur in the playoffs, the Pens don't approach "retaliation" the right way. Opposition gets under Pens skin, you send the Borts, Orpik, Glass, Engo types to step in, or deliver similar treatment back to the oppositions star players. Don't take the dumb retalitory trips, slashes, etc.


:thumb: Great Post FLPensFan!

The eye test is really all you need regarding Scuderi, but man, how does an NHL d-man manage to only get 17 hits in 51 games??? :face:

I mean, you seriously have to go out of your way to avoid contact to do that, which we do see often from Rob. Even worse than the numbers, to me, is that Scuderi really doesn't show any sign that he actually cares. He is so lackadaisical in front of the cage. Despite his comments, he has shown zero passion. His skating is horrible and his coverage is weak. Even when little Nyquist tossed Rob onto Fleury in the last game, the only response was a stern talking to, nothing physical. There isn't a single aspect of hockey at which he excels over Despres or Bortuzzo at this point.

DB needs to address this immediately.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Crankshaft on Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:08 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Puck Drama wrote:Seriously? Bortuzzo over Scuderi? Maybe they can bring up Kostopolous to play over Kunitz too. While they are at it, bring up Kobasew again.

Not sure why, Kunitz has played well all season long....Scuderi, well, hasn't. Everybody has their opinion, so I'd be interested to hear why you would continue to play Scuderi.

I've watched 90% of the Pens games this season, and while generally speaking not noticing a defensemen is a good thing, I can recall a several games where I thought man, Bortuzzo has played a good game tonight. I can't really same the same for Scuderi, except noticing several games where he's looked plain awful. If I had to rank the Pens planned top 6 defensemen going into the season versus their actual play this season, Scuderi would be my 6th defensemen. Orpik would be right above him, although he has been better of late. Scuds and Orpik remind me of the pylons Philly use to trot out as defensemen. They don't have the speed at this level, and Scuderi was extremely mis-judged....he is most definitely on the decline and not at the same level when he left Pens and started with LA. I think Bortuzzo will end up being a much cheaper option over Orpik next season. His defensive ability is not on par with Orpik in his prime, but he has the physical element the Pens sorely need, and I think he is better defensively overall then Engelland.

Martin
Niskanen
Maata
Letang
Orpik
Scuderi

Bortuzzo
Engelland
Despres

I'd play Bortuzzo or Engelland over Scuderi at this point, and possibly even Despres.


Image
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Grunthy on Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:56 am

Because hitting isn't scuds game... And he has looked good the last couple of games. But I know everyone has already made up their mind.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby Puck Drama on Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:53 pm

That is Bortuzz in a nutshell - laid out when Voracek scored. Botuzzo sucks in close.
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Re: Go With 7 Defensemen

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:24 pm

Puck Drama wrote:That is Bortuzz in a nutshell - laid out when Voracek scored. Botuzzo sucks in close.


Not sure of your point or if we watched the same goal. Voracek wasn't Bortz's man. Wasn't even on Bortz's side of the ice when he scored. Bortz laying on the ice was a last ditch attempt to cover for the horrible coverage of the defending player. Bortz attempted to clear, and then came back and picked up Hartnell in front of the net. Martin had Simmonds covered in front of the net. Martin was also laying on the ice at the end of the play, doing the same thing as Bortz....trying to do something because of Adams horrible coverage. Covering Voracek was Craig Adams responsibility, as Sutter had the to guard players at the points. Adams skated towards Voracek and put his stick along the ice in a very poor attempt to take away the pass. In doing so, Adams lost any momentum/speed he had and was left completely standstill and flat footed as Voracek skated around him and put the puck in the net.

Worst you can fault Bortuzzo on the play is for a bad clearing attempt.
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