crosby just may be

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Re: crosby just may be

Postby owtahear on Mon May 12, 2014 8:45 am

jf wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
bdevido wrote:no such thing? kobe, gretzky, lemieux, brady, jordan, broduer...................just off the top of my head.

That's not clutch. That's those are players who rank as the greatest or close to the greatest of all time at their respective sports/positions. They continued to perform at the same better than everyone else level that they did in regular season games.

So why doesn't Crosby perform at this level in the post season ?


Don't ask the simple questions the apologists can't answer.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby sil on Mon May 12, 2014 9:54 am

jf wrote:
IanMoran wrote:Crosby hasn't had his best stretch, I think that's quite obvious, but clutch is almost always small sample size. If Crosby randomly hit a rut in November, it'd be no big deal... because he randomly hit one now he's "not clutch".

Let's look at a large sample size. (I'm throwing out Barry Pederson because of so few GP)

Career playoff PPG Leaders
http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/ ... aders.html

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Messier
4. Orr
5. Bossy
6. Crosby
7. Malkin

Now, he's VERY close to Bossy, Orr, and Messier.. so once you throw in the GPG in different eras, he's easily 3rd.. behind Gretzky and Lemieux.

So 3rd most offensively productive post-season player. Yea, he can't play when it counts..

Comparing championships won , would be a better indicator of clutch play .


Every person on that list other than Crosby and Malkin played in the era without a salary cap. Goodness people.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby Rocco on Mon May 12, 2014 9:57 am

owtahear wrote:
IanMoran wrote:Crosby hasn't had his best stretch, I think that's quite obvious, but clutch is almost always small sample size. If Crosby randomly hit a rut in November, it'd be no big deal... because he randomly hit one now he's "not clutch".

Let's look at a large sample size. (I'm throwing out Barry Pederson because of so few GP)

Career playoff PPG Leaders
http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/ ... aders.html

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Messier
4. Orr
5. Bossy
6. Crosby
7. Malkin

Now, he's VERY close to Bossy, Orr, and Messier.. so once you throw in the GPG in different eras, he's easily 3rd.. behind Gretzky and Lemieux.

So 3rd most offensively productive post-season player. Yea, he can't play when it counts..



Okay. Thanks, that is the proof we all need. Sid is playing great. No problems. He played great against the Bruins last year too. He also played great against the Flyers and Habs in years past. Nothing to see here. Sidney Crosby is the single most clutch hockey player in world history. And beyond. He was fantastic last night, evoking comparisons to Orr, Messier and Bossy. Because, let's look at the large sample size. 2008 and 2009 is so relevant to this year afterall. Hell, the Pens should reach out to Bossy and Orr. Afterall they are on this list, that means they would be okay on the ice also.


I'm starting to wonder if you're intentionally talking past people to prove a point or if you're incapable of reading what people are writing. It's unclear.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby Malkamaniac on Mon May 12, 2014 10:00 am

I think it's a mixture of both.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby newarenanow on Mon May 12, 2014 10:22 am

He's a troll.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby owtahear on Mon May 12, 2014 11:00 am

Desiato wrote:
bdevido wrote:is there any actual proof that he is hurt? if anything his morale is hurt and it should be, but its easy to say "he's playing hurt" to take the focus away from the fact he is playing horrible.


What does horrible mean?

When a player plays at a level that is among the best in his sport for 8 years and then suddenly does not, physical impairment is good theory to explain why. Suddenly becoming a choker who is afraid is not.

Do you know it is common for NHL players to play through injuries and to do everything possible to hide the nature of the injury to the opposition?

Are you stupid? I am asking seriously. Have you been diagnosed with a cognitive disability? Or have you missed the entirety of his career?
I really hate to be calling everyone dumb, but to me, questioning Sidney Crosby's heart, will, competitiveness, ability or determination at this point in his career is a strong sign of great stupidity. At the very least, it makes you a very bad fan, in which case I think you're dumb for spending time here.

Most likely, you are just a troll. This is just fertile ground for trolls. People who like to instigate reactions. You're welcome.


You keep on bringing this up. What he did in the past is meaningless. Do you lack cognitive dissonance? Do you lack spatial comprehension? Mike Bossyis one of the greats, his numbers impeccable, I am not sure I want him on the Pens right now despite his career numbers.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby owtahear on Mon May 12, 2014 11:01 am

Rocco wrote:
owtahear wrote:
IanMoran wrote:Crosby hasn't had his best stretch, I think that's quite obvious, but clutch is almost always small sample size. If Crosby randomly hit a rut in November, it'd be no big deal... because he randomly hit one now he's "not clutch".

Let's look at a large sample size. (I'm throwing out Barry Pederson because of so few GP)

Career playoff PPG Leaders
http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/ ... aders.html

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Messier
4. Orr
5. Bossy
6. Crosby
7. Malkin

Now, he's VERY close to Bossy, Orr, and Messier.. so once you throw in the GPG in different eras, he's easily 3rd.. behind Gretzky and Lemieux.

So 3rd most offensively productive post-season player. Yea, he can't play when it counts..



Okay. Thanks, that is the proof we all need. Sid is playing great. No problems. He played great against the Bruins last year too. He also played great against the Flyers and Habs in years past. Nothing to see here. Sidney Crosby is the single most clutch hockey player in world history. And beyond. He was fantastic last night, evoking comparisons to Orr, Messier and Bossy. Because, let's look at the large sample size. 2008 and 2009 is so relevant to this year afterall. Hell, the Pens should reach out to Bossy and Orr. Afterall they are on this list, that means they would be okay on the ice also.


I'm starting to wonder if you're intentionally talking past people to prove a point or if you're incapable of reading what people are writing. It's unclear.


Are you watching the games? Are you watching the games? Are you watching the games?
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby Rocco on Mon May 12, 2014 11:18 am

owtahear wrote:
Rocco wrote:
owtahear wrote:
IanMoran wrote:Crosby hasn't had his best stretch, I think that's quite obvious, but clutch is almost always small sample size. If Crosby randomly hit a rut in November, it'd be no big deal... because he randomly hit one now he's "not clutch".

Let's look at a large sample size. (I'm throwing out Barry Pederson because of so few GP)

Career playoff PPG Leaders
http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/ ... aders.html

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Messier
4. Orr
5. Bossy
6. Crosby
7. Malkin

Now, he's VERY close to Bossy, Orr, and Messier.. so once you throw in the GPG in different eras, he's easily 3rd.. behind Gretzky and Lemieux.

So 3rd most offensively productive post-season player. Yea, he can't play when it counts..



Okay. Thanks, that is the proof we all need. Sid is playing great. No problems. He played great against the Bruins last year too. He also played great against the Flyers and Habs in years past. Nothing to see here. Sidney Crosby is the single most clutch hockey player in world history. And beyond. He was fantastic last night, evoking comparisons to Orr, Messier and Bossy. Because, let's look at the large sample size. 2008 and 2009 is so relevant to this year afterall. Hell, the Pens should reach out to Bossy and Orr. Afterall they are on this list, that means they would be okay on the ice also.


I'm starting to wonder if you're intentionally talking past people to prove a point or if you're incapable of reading what people are writing. It's unclear.


Are you watching the games? Are you watching the games? Are you watching the games?


As I and others have written many times, no one is saying Crosby is playing well this postseason. I tried writing it in a large font previously but you didn't read it. I'll try putting it in a different color:no one is saying Crosby is playing well this postseason . I'll even take a swing through Google Translate and put it in different languages in the hope that you can understand one of them:

Spanish: nadie dice Crosby está jugando bien en esta postemporada
French: personne ne dit Crosby joue bien présentes séries
German: niemand sagt Crosby ist gut spielen diese Nachsaison
Latin: dicentes: Non est bonum hoc postseason Crosby sit amet
Hungarian: Senki sem mondja, Crosby jól játszik ez utószezon
Russian: никто не говорит Кросби играет хорошо этот Матчи
Japanese: 誰もクロスビーがよく、このポストシーズンをプレイしていると言っていない
Esperanto: neniu diras Crosby ludas bone ĉi postemporada

There is a difference between "not playing well this postseason" and "is a career choker". The former is true. The latter is false, and has been proven false. When people prove the latter false, you then conflate the argument to say people are now saying he's having a great postseason when no one is saying that. Please stop, as it is obnoxious and annoying for me to write something only to have someone not bother to read what I am writing.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby sil on Mon May 12, 2014 11:22 am

Rocco. Ha. :thumb:
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby shmenguin on Mon May 12, 2014 11:53 am

this is probably inline with most players, but sid's PPG from round to round:

round 1: 1.53
round 2: 1.1
round 3: 1.08
round 4: .69

makes sense...tougher competition=less points. but it's not great for him, either.

i think he's ultimately a guy who feasts on cream puff opponents and is unfortunately human against tight competition. but like i said, that's probably the same story for most players.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby relantel on Mon May 12, 2014 12:09 pm

Which year was the first round series with Ottawa where Sid had 14 points in 5 games? Almost has to be back in 2010, no?
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby shmenguin on Mon May 12, 2014 12:17 pm

relantel wrote:Which year was the first round series with Ottawa where Sid had 14 points in 5 games? Almost has to be back in 2010, no?


2010. the sens had the worst GAA of any team in the playoffs
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby TrueNorth on Mon May 12, 2014 12:24 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:Crosby's reversion to dirtbag cheap shot artist is complete. It's embarrassing to watch, but emblematic of his usual playoff maturity


I’m just curious. What would you do if you were in his shoes? Seriously. You’re hacked, whacked and generally assaulted every time you step onto the ice. It’s open season on you and your tormenters are free to do whatever they like with virtual impunity--neither the refs nor members of your own team are inclined to step in and put a stop to it or otherwise make it clear that their actions will not go unpunished. Would you just continue to turn the other cheek, to skate away, or at some point do you think you might just snap and say to hell with it, enough is enough? Are you an emotionless machine or a human being?
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Mon May 12, 2014 12:27 pm

TrueNorth wrote:
shafnutz05 wrote:Crosby's reversion to dirtbag cheap shot artist is complete. It's embarrassing to watch, but emblematic of his usual playoff maturity


I’m just curious. What would you do if you were in his shoes? Seriously. You’re hacked, whacked and generally assaulted every time you step onto the ice. It’s open season on you and your tormenters are free to do whatever they like with virtual impunity--neither the refs nor members of your own team are inclined to step in and put a stop to it or otherwise make it clear that their actions will not go unpunished. Would you just continue to turn the other cheek, to skate away, or at some point do you think you might just snap and say to hell with it, enough is enough? Are you an emotionless machine or a human being?


Step in for a face-off against Moore and let Dom know that gloves will be dropped with the puck. Square off and go. :twisted:
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby Bathgate on Mon May 12, 2014 12:34 pm

This Sid thing is one of the most perplexing and regrettable episodes in the history of the Pens’ franchise, and I’ve been following it closely since Game 1 in 1967. I am now theorizing that maybe the guy is so angry, frustrated, and aggravated about the coaching and management of this team that he simply cannot or will not perform well. Could be he cannot stand the systems and strategy used by Bylsma and/or that he gets no on-ice enforcement support and/or that upper management and ownership are not badgering Bettman and the league about the refs not making calls on numerous, obvious fouls. Regardless, he’s the captain and team leadeer, so if he has such an attitude, you can bet that others on the team are similarly soured too. They all talk among themselves. This is just a theory; I certainly don’t really know. Anybody else think this could be going on?

If there's something to this, then Shero is to be condemned for not replacing Bylsma.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby jf on Mon May 12, 2014 1:52 pm

Bathgate wrote:This Sid thing is one of the most perplexing and regrettable episodes in the history of the Pens’ franchise, and I’ve been following it closely since Game 1 in 1967. I am now theorizing that maybe the guy is so angry, frustrated, and aggravated about the coaching and management of this team that he simply cannot or will not perform well. Could be he cannot stand the systems and strategy used by Bylsma and/or that he gets no on-ice enforcement support and/or that upper management and ownership are not badgering Bettman and the league about the refs not making calls on numerous, obvious fouls. Regardless, he’s the captain and team leadeer, so if he has such an attitude, you can bet that others on the team are similarly soured too. They all talk among themselves. This is just a theory; I certainly don’t really know. Anybody else think this could be going on?

If there's something to this, then Shero is to be condemned for not replacing Bylsma.

Maybe Sid is still suffering problems from his brain injuries . Maybe it is psychological or a medication problem . Maybe he is depressed or refuses to take medications . Sid has always done things his way , but for whatever reason things are not working . Either Sid himself or someone in the organization needs to figure it out and tell Sid it is time to take a step back . Maybe he just doesn't want to be the leader anymore . Whatever they do , it should start with limiting his TOI , especially on the power play . Malkin has shown in the past that he is capable of carrying this team .
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby ulf on Mon May 12, 2014 1:53 pm

Seriously he's not taking his meds?
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby Gaucho on Mon May 12, 2014 1:58 pm

I'd be pissed off too, if I were Sid. Until yesterday he has taken ungodly amounts of abuse, sucked it up, and watched the refs look the other way. The moment he actually dares to vent his frustration people complain about him not sucking it up and let his frustration get the better of him. I'd be sick and tired too of this f*ed up old-time hockey mentality that does nothing but encourage clutch & grab, goonerism, and cheap shot artistry.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby relantel on Mon May 12, 2014 1:59 pm

Why don't we wait for them to be eliminated before doing the post mortem? Am I missing something?
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby shmenguin on Mon May 12, 2014 2:04 pm

Gaucho wrote:I'd be pissed off too, if I were Sid. Until yesterday he has taken ungodly amounts of abuse, sucked it up, and watched the refs look the other way. The moment he actually dares to vent his frustration people complain about him not sucking it up and let his frustration get the better of him. I'd be sick and tired too of this f*ed up old-time hockey mentality that does nothing but encourage clutch & grab, goonerism, and cheap shot artistry.


he got popped a few times from staal. that sucks and all, but i don't think he's taken ungodly amounts of abuse.

even with the staal stuff, i think there's a 99% chance the refs just didn't see anything. old-time hockey or not - if a ref catches you cross checking someone's head, they're going to call it.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby GJ on Mon May 12, 2014 2:56 pm

So what's the difference with the Flyer abuse early in his career and the playoff abuse now? He owned the Flyers when mad. Maybe he ought to just go nuts and then torch the Rags.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby sil on Mon May 12, 2014 3:01 pm

relantel wrote:Why don't we wait for them to be eliminated before doing the post mortem? Am I missing something?


Oh no...that's not how things work around these parts. If the pens win tomorrow night and MAF gets a shutout, we'll be planning a parade route and what not...then we'll go and lose game 1 of the ECF by a score of 2-1 and people will be jumping off bridges again.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby She'sTheFastest on Mon May 12, 2014 7:00 pm

Rocco wrote:
owtahear wrote:
Rocco wrote:
owtahear wrote:
IanMoran wrote:Crosby hasn't had his best stretch, I think that's quite obvious, but clutch is almost always small sample size. If Crosby randomly hit a rut in November, it'd be no big deal... because he randomly hit one now he's "not clutch".

Let's look at a large sample size. (I'm throwing out Barry Pederson because of so few GP)

Career playoff PPG Leaders
http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/ ... aders.html

1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Messier
4. Orr
5. Bossy
6. Crosby
7. Malkin

Now, he's VERY close to Bossy, Orr, and Messier.. so once you throw in the GPG in different eras, he's easily 3rd.. behind Gretzky and Lemieux.

So 3rd most offensively productive post-season player. Yea, he can't play when it counts..



Okay. Thanks, that is the proof we all need. Sid is playing great. No problems. He played great against the Bruins last year too. He also played great against the Flyers and Habs in years past. Nothing to see here. Sidney Crosby is the single most clutch hockey player in world history. And beyond. He was fantastic last night, evoking comparisons to Orr, Messier and Bossy. Because, let's look at the large sample size. 2008 and 2009 is so relevant to this year afterall. Hell, the Pens should reach out to Bossy and Orr. Afterall they are on this list, that means they would be okay on the ice also.


I'm starting to wonder if you're intentionally talking past people to prove a point or if you're incapable of reading what people are writing. It's unclear.


Are you watching the games? Are you watching the games? Are you watching the games?


As I and others have written many times, no one is saying Crosby is playing well this postseason. I tried writing it in a large font previously but you didn't read it. I'll try putting it in a different color:no one is saying Crosby is playing well this postseason . I'll even take a swing through Google Translate and put it in different languages in the hope that you can understand one of them:

Spanish: nadie dice Crosby está jugando bien en esta postemporada
French: personne ne dit Crosby joue bien présentes séries
German: niemand sagt Crosby ist gut spielen diese Nachsaison
Latin: dicentes: Non est bonum hoc postseason Crosby sit amet
Hungarian: Senki sem mondja, Crosby jól játszik ez utószezon
Russian: никто не говорит Кросби играет хорошо этот Матчи
Japanese: 誰もクロスビーがよく、このポストシーズンをプレイしていると言っていない
Esperanto: neniu diras Crosby ludas bone ĉi postemporada

There is a difference between "not playing well this postseason" and "is a career choker". The former is true. The latter is false, and has been proven false. When people prove the latter false, you then conflate the argument to say people are now saying he's having a great postseason when no one is saying that. Please stop, as it is obnoxious and annoying for me to write something only to have someone not bother to read what I am writing.


In Murica we read and write English, damnit!
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby pens_srq on Mon May 12, 2014 8:23 pm

Sid and Geno are definitely both capable of going mental during a big game and failing. But they have also both had big games where they didn't lose it. I think that for whatever reason you want to pick, the fans and particularly the arena crowd are not optimistic. It shows and when the arena goes silent because of a slip up the crowd amplifies the feeling and makes it 100 times worse by going silent. As fans in the stands it is the duty of the home team fans to make noise and lots of it. Unfortunately the Pens fans have seen this so many times that they immediately throw up their hands like: "are you kidding me?" The first Scuderi misplay should not be grounds for deafening silence but for some reason it is. This is why we lose so many playoff games at home.
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Re: crosby just may be

Postby knives of ice on Mon May 12, 2014 8:32 pm

just as Cherry said tonight on HNIC there has never been a superstar that has taken as much abuse as #87 does. the hits and cheap shots they replayed from these playoffs were ridiculous and its not as if this penguins team has anyone that would do anything about it anyways.
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