Win or blow it up

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Win or blow it up

Postby scpensfan on Sun May 11, 2014 11:56 pm

Kovacevic is right.

Only untouchables should be 87 and 71.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby DudeMan2766 on Sun May 11, 2014 11:58 pm

Blowing it up would be the absolute worst thing you can do. I'm terrified of becoming the Canucks (1 Cup win aside, I know) but this team has enough talent and I believe the FO is smart enough to make moves, even drastic ones (trading James Neal for example) to keep a good team without completely blowing it up. I for one cannot wait for the realty tv aspect to be gone from this team.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby Antonio on Mon May 12, 2014 12:01 am

The dejan article was pretty much 100% on the money.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby FallenHero96 on Mon May 12, 2014 12:03 am

The problem with that is, it's because of 87 and 71 we aren't winning. Mostly because of 87. 10 million dollars for 1 goal in the playoffs. We are not the type of team that can survive without our superstar players playing like superstar players.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby Antonio on Mon May 12, 2014 12:04 am

Well, I admit I was wrong about this team...I predicted rangers in 6.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby Desiato on Mon May 12, 2014 12:06 am

Blowing it up puts the dismantling GM in a natural disadvantage. Due to the sheer number of moves required to "blow it up" within a relatively short period of time, you cannot expect them to be favorable.

Before significant changes are made to the core, there should first be a coaching change.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby bhaw on Mon May 12, 2014 12:07 am

This is a little over-reactive. Obviously I want this team to put the Rangers away and move on and look good doing so.

If they end up losing, the organization has to make a decision: either DB is the right coach with the wrong players or they have the right players with the wrong coach. Which ever way they think, they need to make the proper adjustments but not go overboard (meaning if they think it's the coach, you don't replace him then ax half the team on top of it). If they legitimately think they have the wrong players AND the wrong coach, you might as well add wrong GM there since he put the combo together.

The only scary part is that I honestly don't know which of the two they think it is between players or coach. My opinion is well known, but it's hard to tell what the Pens think.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby bhaw on Mon May 12, 2014 12:11 am

FallenHero96 wrote:The problem with that is, it's because of 87 and 71 we aren't winning. Mostly because of 87. 10 million dollars for 1 goal in the playoffs. We are not the type of team that can survive without our superstar players playing like superstar players.


Well, we should take some solace in the fact that the team we are playing is dropping 14.5M in cap space and almost 17M in real dollars between 2 guys who are way bigger slugs than our guys can ever hope to be.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby FallenHero96 on Mon May 12, 2014 12:12 am

I would agree with a coaching change, but not a GM change. I don't see anyone out there right now doing a better job than Shero. The drafting could use improvement, but they can bring in more help with that. Shero has had some mis-steps, but he has also pulled a bunch of rabbits out of his hat, too. Keep Shero, but he has been said that Bylsma is his guy and if Bylsma has to go, Ray wouldnt be dumb enough to insist to go with him, would he?
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby Desiato on Mon May 12, 2014 12:14 am

FallenHero96 wrote:The problem with that is, it's because of 87 and 71 we aren't winning. Mostly because of 87.


The problem here is unrealistic expectations by dumb, angry people. By the standards expressed here, no team is worthy and 95% of the players in the league are bums who don't want it.

This is an incredibly successful franchise. The only argument you can make to defend disappointment is that they're not playing to their potential.

So this very successful team with the potential to be even better should throw away its roster? Why? So it has less potential so we can't be disappointed about that anymore?

I'm so sorry there may be a few franchises presently in a better position than the Pens. That must be SO hard for you guys to take.......................
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby bhaw on Mon May 12, 2014 12:17 am

FallenHero96 wrote:I would agree with a coaching change, but not a GM change. I don't see anyone out there right now doing a better job than Shero. The drafting could use improvement, but they can bring in more help with that. Shero has had some mis-steps, but he has also pulled a bunch of rabbits out of his hat, too. Keep Shero, but he has been said that Bylsma is his guy and if Bylsma has to go, Ray wouldnt be dumb enough to insist to go with him, would he?


I think you misunderstood... I was basically saying that if you're going to change the coach, you don't blow up the team. If you're going to keep the coach, you need to heavily change the team. Pens need to figure out which it is. But if ownership thinks it's BOTH, clearly that's an indictment on Shero's abilities. I'm not suggesting they remove Shero. My opinion for the last 4 years has been to remove Bozo from behind the bench and see how the current team does.

But again, let's hope we pull out game 7 and the good Penguins show up for the ECF.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby FallenHero96 on Mon May 12, 2014 12:17 am

Saying the GM put the wrong team together is kind of meh. In a way, yes, but Shero isn't hand picking all of these players. He doesn't have the freedom to add and take away anyone he wants. When you're playing poker a lot depends on what cards the other guys have, too.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby Two Line Pass on Mon May 12, 2014 12:20 am

Desiato wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:The problem with that is, it's because of 87 and 71 we aren't winning. Mostly because of 87.


The problem here is unrealistic expectations by dumb, angry people. By the standards expressed here, no team is worthy and 95% of the players in the league are bums who don't want it.

This is an incredibly successful franchise. The only argument you can make to defend disappointment is that they're not playing to their potential.

So this very successful team with the potential to be even better should throw away its roster? Why? So it has less potential so we can't be disappointed about that anymore?

I'm so sorry there may be a few franchises presently in a better position than the Pens. That must be SO hard for you guys to take.......................

well we have been in a great position for 5 years and what do we have to show for it? i hate this team
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby FallenHero96 on Mon May 12, 2014 12:22 am

Ha no bhaw I actually wrote that before I even read your post. I had just read the part of Dejans article about Shero.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby Froggy on Mon May 12, 2014 12:25 am

Two Line Pass wrote:
Desiato wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:The problem with that is, it's because of 87 and 71 we aren't winning. Mostly because of 87.


The problem here is unrealistic expectations by dumb, angry people. By the standards expressed here, no team is worthy and 95% of the players in the league are bums who don't want it.

This is an incredibly successful franchise. The only argument you can make to defend disappointment is that they're not playing to their potential.

So this very successful team with the potential to be even better should throw away its roster? Why? So it has less potential so we can't be disappointed about that anymore?

I'm so sorry there may be a few franchises presently in a better position than the Pens. That must be SO hard for you guys to take.......................

well we have been in a great position for 5 years and what do we have to show for it? i hate this team


So if we don't win a Stanley Cup every few years, that's it? Nothing tho show for it? Man, every team other than Chicago should be in rebuilding mode by that logic.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby bhaw on Mon May 12, 2014 12:28 am

Froggy wrote:
Two Line Pass wrote:
Desiato wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:The problem with that is, it's because of 87 and 71 we aren't winning. Mostly because of 87.


The problem here is unrealistic expectations by dumb, angry people. By the standards expressed here, no team is worthy and 95% of the players in the league are bums who don't want it.

This is an incredibly successful franchise. The only argument you can make to defend disappointment is that they're not playing to their potential.

So this very successful team with the potential to be even better should throw away its roster? Why? So it has less potential so we can't be disappointed about that anymore?

I'm so sorry there may be a few franchises presently in a better position than the Pens. That must be SO hard for you guys to take.......................

well we have been in a great position for 5 years and what do we have to show for it? i hate this team


So if we don't win a Stanley Cup every few years, that's it? Nothing tho show for it? Man, every team other than Chicago should be in rebuilding mode by that logic.


I'm worried what his/her mental state would be if he/she was a Flyer fan :lol:
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby DocEmrick on Mon May 12, 2014 5:07 am

I don't understand how some of you can't be on board with an explosion and rebuilding of the roster and coaching staff. This team has been penned to be cup contenders for the past 4 years, and they've fallen short every single year.

This year, they've looked horrible in the post-season. Sure injuries happen, etc, but that's no excuse for shortcomings from 2010 - 2013.

I was always ok with DB, but his time has come and gone. He's riding off of a strong supporting staff right now in Jacques Martin, else we probably would have been bounced in Round 1. It's time for the coaching staff to be revamped.

As for players/D, I don't know what RS can do. I've never hated Fleury, but after last post-seasons blunders he definitely needs to be looked at. He's done fairly well this playoff run, until now when, arguably, it matters most. Scuderi should be bought out, and I guess we can say goodbye to Matt Niskanen. I liked RS's pickups at the deadline, but if the entire roster is going to be redone we might as well part ways.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby Cedar Penn on Mon May 12, 2014 5:28 am

I told myself, "Rangers in seven." when Barry Melrose called it for the Penguins when they were up 3-1 in the series :?
Last edited by Cedar Penn on Mon May 12, 2014 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby lifetimefan on Mon May 12, 2014 5:58 am

Only one move necessary, #CANDAN. Every team that he has coached for the Pens has failed to achieve. Shereo said "built for multiple cups". Dan is more interested in hanging with the guys than leading them and holding them accountable. Every time a player tanked a game, made costly turnover or took stupid penalties during the regular season and Dan did nothing for five years has come back to haunt him. His failure to hold ALL players accountable makes this team a joke. Under the slightest adversity they show they have no spine or sack.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby DropEmJayBird on Mon May 12, 2014 6:20 am

man, if you think the last two games are caused by Fleury versus the rest of the team... wow.
Thank god your not an NHL GM, that's all I can say.

This team is getting outplayed in all phases the past two games, the Rangers have picked up their play and the penguins 18 skaters have not. The penguins have trapped successfully with a one goal lead, but that was against a team that might have been sleeping.

The teams philosophy is simply not built for the chaos that is the NHL playoffs. It can work like a thing of beauty in mid november, but when the frantic pace of the playoffs, and the extra speed it brings begins, the quick north south game that relies on crisp puck movement just is not there. You have to win dirty - and the penguins have put together a roster of prissy 16 year old teenager girls who will never win dirty.

Last night was a great example - and the entire playoffs in general - the penguins are getting beat in front of their own net consistently - even when they outnumber the other team... and really have not scored very many... if at all... dirty rebound goals this entire postseason.

When the games go sour.. how do the penguins respond? They chirp... and chirp... and get in scrums after getting beat to the front of the net yet again... then they chirp some more.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby pens2005 on Mon May 12, 2014 6:27 am

DudeMan2766 wrote:Blowing it up would be the absolute worst thing you can do. I'm terrified of becoming the Canucks (1 Cup win aside, I know) but this team has enough talent and I believe the FO is smart enough to make moves, even drastic ones (trading James Neal for example) to keep a good team without completely blowing it up. I for one cannot wait for the realty tv aspect to be gone from this team.


Unfortunately if you want change, major changes have to take place. Trading just James Neal does absolutely nothing.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby AlexPKeaton on Mon May 12, 2014 6:32 am

This team needs Trotz, a stud goaltender, and upgrades in the bottom 6. I'd be OK resigning Fleury for backup money but RS needs to find an upgrade either through a trade or via the draft. Oh and start drafting forwards exclusively. The Pens need some young hard nosed players in the bottom 6. Only Sutter should be safe in the bottom 6.

I'd look into moving Letang and resigning Niskanen for cheaper, but I'm afraid Letang's stock is about as low as it could get.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby pens_CT on Mon May 12, 2014 6:35 am

pens2005 wrote:
DudeMan2766 wrote:Blowing it up would be the absolute worst thing you can do. I'm terrified of becoming the Canucks (1 Cup win aside, I know) but this team has enough talent and I believe the FO is smart enough to make moves, even drastic ones (trading James Neal for example) to keep a good team without completely blowing it up. I for one cannot wait for the realty tv aspect to be gone from this team.


Unfortunately if you want change, major changes have to take place. Trading just James Neal does absolutely nothing.

Unless Neal changes his game he is relatively useless in the playoffs. Get a couple of guys in here who are more physical and are willing and able to play around the net, not the perimeter.
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby columbia on Mon May 12, 2014 6:47 am

The thing about Neal is that the rest of the league has had ample opportunity to see that he's not a competitor, when things get more difficult in the playoffs. But, hey, he's good at those one timers in the regular season. :roll:
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Re: Win or blow it up

Postby Gaucho on Mon May 12, 2014 6:56 am

So whose mother do we have to off to win this?
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