Dejan's article of negativity

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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby columbia on Tue May 13, 2014 10:04 am

I don't know....as happy as I was to see him in a Pens uniform again, Kovalev barely belonged in the NHL.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Tue May 13, 2014 10:27 am

columbia wrote:I don't know....as happy as I was to see him in a Pens uniform again, Kovalev barely belonged in the NHL.


He was obviously at the end of his career, but he still had more to give than what Bylsma gave him room to do, but that's obviously debatable. Iginla was just inexcusable. Seeing what he's done in Boston, it's obviously that Bylsma horribly misused him here.

We also have nobody like Cooke or Morrow left and they are guys who could have been difference makers against Columbus and the Rangers.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Factorial on Tue May 13, 2014 10:38 am

I'd like to see Glass back in tonight. At least he would hit a few Rangers.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby SolidSnake on Tue May 13, 2014 10:40 am

columbia wrote:There's not much to disagree with there.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Tue May 13, 2014 10:49 am

Factorial wrote:I'd like to see Glass back in tonight. At least he would hit a few Rangers.


Over who? Bennett who led the team in hits 2 games ago? Gibbons who is the only player even giving consistent effort?

I think Vitale becomes the only option as Adams is considered completely untouchable. Despite his speed, Vitale just hasn't been producing anything so I could see this.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Tue May 13, 2014 10:56 am

I really think Engellend should be on the 4th line.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby MKRA on Tue May 13, 2014 11:04 am

I actually don't take issue with most of his points, but what I find perplexing is the sky is falling attitude:

You read this and you'd think the organization was bottom of the barrel.

Don't think for one second there isn't a columnist in the know in every NHL city who can create a list of grievances at least as long for EACH of the league's other franchises.

I feel the same way about lots of critical posts on this board following games regarding physical mistakes that are made on the ice. Yeah, this guy turned the puck over and that guy was not in coverage, blah, blah, blah. Watch ANY hockey game on any given night....you'll see turnovers and guys missing assignments all over the ice. It's the fastest sport on the planet. It looks easy on TV. All teams make mistakes off the ice and on the ice. And all teams mistakes on the ice.

Then, of course, perspective is often lost: For example, I think most folks understand Harry Z is not the best forward prospect by a fairly long shot. (It may end up being Archibald). But the Pens have no (potentially star) forwards in the system. We get that. But Adams, Kunitz and Dupuis aside, the present team is not exactly comprised of aged forwards. But the core forwards, Crosby, Malkin and Neil, are not yet remotely close to old. Sutter and Bennett are young. And at any given moment, the team can cash in young D chips for young forwards.

It's a game 7 night and I don't even know why I am writing about this topic. Ridiculous. But I felt compelled.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby sil on Tue May 13, 2014 11:08 am

DelPen wrote:
sil wrote:There isn't a ton I disagree with, but this statement:

"It won't change that Wilkes-Barre's most promising forward is journeyman Harry Zolnierczyk. He'll turn 27 before the next training camp."

That is so far from reality that it borders on insanity (or just gross ignorance) on Dejan's part.

The rest has some to lots of merit, unfortunately.


The only argument you can try is to say the best forward on WBS right now is either Harry Z, Kobasew or Kostopolous.

This was a knock at the complete lack of drafted forward prospects playing right now.


Yes, and that is exactly why it's ignorant at best. It's amazing to me that a professional sports writer would think that only promising hockey players are AHL standouts...again it borders on insane. The current "best" has nothing to do with "promising." I'd also argue that the current "best" forward for the Baby Pens is Anton Zlobin, but that doesn't fit in with Dejan's rant, so he chose Harry Z. It's pandering to the lowest common denominator of hockey fan at best. He can do better.

Again, pretty much the rest of the argument I can buy.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby sil on Tue May 13, 2014 11:10 am

Factorial wrote:I'd like to see Glass back in tonight. At least he would hit a few Rangers.


I have to disagree. Right now we can't score with any consistency, and inserting Glass won't really help that. I can't think of a player who he would replace that would improve the current situation.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Penspal on Tue May 13, 2014 11:11 am

sil wrote:
Factorial wrote:I'd like to see Glass back in tonight. At least he would hit a few Rangers.


I have to disagree. Right now we can't score with any consistency, and inserting Glass won't really help that. I can't think of a player who he would replace that would improve the current situation.


Craig Adams?

Doubtful, and since Gibbons has been effective, I'm guessing that HCDB sits Bennett (two penalties last game, and he's stopped hitting).
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Tue May 13, 2014 11:15 am

MKRA wrote:I actually don't take issue with most of his points, but what I find perplexing is the sky is falling attitude:

You read this and you'd think the organization was bottom of the barrel.


This is kind of what he's talking about. It's a very tough situation to be critical because the Pens do have success. The problem is the Penguins aren't building themselves into a cup contender anymore. They're designing them just as a playoff team.

The Penguins are plagued by the same problems EVERY year and they never get remedied and that's why they don't make it to the cup. This is not a team that should be good enough to make to the 2nd or 3rd round every year. With the type of money they've spent and players they've built around, you need to be built to win and they aren't.

Obviously we're not expecting them to dominate everyone all the time, but the type of playoff runs they've had since the cup are just not acceptable. The truth is Bylsma should have been fired after losing to Philly in the first round and the organization needed to take a step back and really evaluate what kind of team to build, not just patch wounds.

This team needs a large overhaul and they can do that without rebuilding.

Niskanen is better than Letang? True
They need to spend that money on Niskanen, not Letang.

James Neal needs to go. He's a dirty POS and his play doesn't warrant anything anymore.

Cooke and Morrow gone, the Penguins have NOBODY making life hell for the other team. Nobody making other players pay.

The coaching staff obviously KNOWS how to win, but they can't get them to stick to the plan or play at 100%, 100% of the time.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Bioshock on Tue May 13, 2014 11:30 am

Seems pretty spot on to me.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Stick_licker on Tue May 13, 2014 11:37 am

MKRA wrote: But Adams, Kunitz and Dupuis aside, the present team is not exactly comprised of aged forwards.


We have the 4th oldest squad of forwards in the whole league at 28.7 years. Not to blame that for our troubles since the Rangers are #5 (and man does it show - I'm not even sure Richards is playing in this series, and the same would be said for MSL through 4 games).

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AverageAge.php
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 13, 2014 11:40 am

The negativity is well deserved.

Here is the best summary of the Pens I can think of without an bias or opinion:
This team has yet to play "their game" for multiple periods or multiple games in a row.

This team is a cap max team, with arguably the best two centers in the NHL. They are built to be hard to defend because of these two talented centers. The top 2 lines are not contributing enough even strength offence to win this series. This team had the #1 PP and #5 PK in the regular season. In the playoffs, they are middle of the pack in both areas.

In the regular season, you had to deal with Crosby. Shut him down, you still had Malkin to deal with.......neither of those lines are scoring enough to be a threat in the playoffs.
In the regular season, the Penguins had a deadly power play. In the playoffs, they have a middle of the pack PP. Giving the Pens a PP is not the same threat of giving up a goal as it was in the regular season.

I've said it before, if this team goes out and plays "its game" and loses a game, or loses a series, I am fine with that. But this team is playing nothing like it did in the regular season, and quite honestly half the team looks like it doesn't give a crap. Stop the bad passes, show some hustle to each and every loose puck, shoot the damn puck instead of trying to make 10 passes for a pretty goal.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby FLPensFan on Tue May 13, 2014 11:45 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
Cooke and Morrow gone, the Penguins have NOBODY making life hell for the other team. Nobody making other players pay.



I said this elsewhere that this may be one of the biggest pieces missing from this team. They no longer possess a Cooke, Morrow, Talbot, Jarko Ruutu, or Tyler Wright type of pest that can get under the skin of the opposition players. Every single team targets Crosby, Malkin, Neal, and Letang. When do you see the Pens do that, almost never.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Tico Rick on Tue May 13, 2014 11:48 am

Dejan makes great points, but one major thing that he doesn't mention is the fact that playoff hockey is different from regular season hockey. This current team is built for regular season hockey, not playoff hockey. It's easy to look pretty and blow out a team you only see a couple of times a year, but when you face a team for up to seven straight games when it's all on the line, it's a different game. The opposition plays you harder, and the refs let a lot more go. Teams that win in the playoffs have skill, but they also have a lot of grit, something this team lacks. Bylsma's pretty stretch passes don't work so well come playoff time, but not having gritty players who'll drive to the net is Ray Shero's fault as much as DB's fault.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby GSdrums87 on Tue May 13, 2014 11:55 am

Its been said to death, but...its not that they're losing, its how they're losing.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby sniper on Tue May 13, 2014 12:16 pm

GSdrums87 wrote:Its been said to death, but...its not that they're losing, its how they're losing.


Yep sadly the effort usually isn't there and far too often when it is there it's sloppy. The team from game 2 needs to show up every game, instead it looks like a lot of them just don't care.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Jim on Tue May 13, 2014 12:31 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
Cooke and Morrow gone, the Penguins have NOBODY making life hell for the other team. Nobody making other players pay.



I said this elsewhere that this may be one of the biggest pieces missing from this team. They no longer possess a Cooke, Morrow, Talbot, Jarko Ruutu, or Tyler Wright type of pest that can get under the skin of the opposition players. Every single team targets Crosby, Malkin, Neal, and Letang. When do you see the Pens do that, almost never.


I am just quoting this for the Tyler Wright reference. Great guy...
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby pens_CT on Tue May 13, 2014 12:33 pm

sniper wrote:
GSdrums87 wrote:Its been said to death, but...its not that they're losing, its how they're losing.


Yep sadly the effort usually isn't there and far too often when it is there it's sloppy. The team from game 2 needs to show up every game, instead it looks like a lot of them just don't care.

They seemed to care in games 2, 3, and 4. Why would they stop caring now?
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby PensRock611 on Tue May 13, 2014 12:39 pm

Dejan is a sports columnist not a sports reporter. He gets paid to do what y'all do on here, give his opinion. Don't read his stuff if you don't like what he says.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby sniper on Tue May 13, 2014 12:48 pm

pens_CT wrote:
sniper wrote:
GSdrums87 wrote:Its been said to death, but...its not that they're losing, its how they're losing.


Yep sadly the effort usually isn't there and far too often when it is there it's sloppy. The team from game 2 needs to show up every game, instead it looks like a lot of them just don't care.

They seemed to care in games 2, 3, and 4. Why would they stop caring now?


I don't know, but it certainly appears that way to me and I'm sure others. Do you think their compete level in the games they lost matched their compete level in the games they won? I don't know anyone who would say that's the case. Basically when they show up and play hard for 60 minutes (or even close to it) they've won. Sadly they like to not show up far too often.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby shafnutz05 on Tue May 13, 2014 12:50 pm

SolidSnake wrote:
columbia wrote:There's not much to disagree with there.


The truth is a bitter pill to swallow.

In any event, those that want a coaching change are going to be disappointed since I'll be leading the Pens to victory tonight.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Luckybreak on Tue May 13, 2014 12:52 pm

pens_CT wrote:
sniper wrote:
GSdrums87 wrote:Its been said to death, but...its not that they're losing, its how they're losing.


Yep sadly the effort usually isn't there and far too often when it is there it's sloppy. The team from game 2 needs to show up every game, instead it looks like a lot of them just don't care.

They seemed to care in games 2, 3, and 4. Why would they stop caring now?


They beat a tired beat up team and looked great doing so. When the Rangers rallied around MSL the Pens responded with... nothing (unless you count petulance and stupid penalties). Once again when this team faces adversity they either vanish or go into meltdown. For it to happen repeatedly shows that there are problems with the GM, coach and players, though the lion's share of blame is on DB IMO.
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Re: Dejan's article of negativity

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Tue May 13, 2014 1:05 pm

Penspal wrote:http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/6098449-74/won-penguins-game#axzz31VNOrF74

Dejan has likely trolled this very board to come up with some of these beauties, and riffles them off like they are all irrefutable facts. Pretty much every one has been discussed on here with valid points from both sides, but he tosses them all together in a diatribe of hate. In my opinion, he's gone too far, and he should suffer the consequences should the Pens win. Really, an article like that BEFORE a game 7 that could be decided by countless OTHER things is wretched.

That's part of the problem with Sports media today. Its taken a page out of normal media, and creates the negative narrative because it get$ attention. Sure, the occasional feel good story comes along (St. Louis playing for his Mom), but most are about what's wrong, scandalous or the mistakes that the Coach or GM made. Fans hear this enough and focus on the negative, rather than stay open minded. Of course, there are the fanboi's which just make the haters hate more, but where is the middle ground, the rational, the thinkers. Dejan, you used to be one.

Having said that, I've like his stuff over the years. I've not always agreed with it, but this one has probably thrown me over the edge as him being biased against reason when it comes to the Pens organization.


Knowing you to be a fine chronicler of the Bylsma/Shero era, I am rather surprised at your reaction Penspal. Though I get your opposition to the horrific karmic aspect of the timing, from a columnist's viewpoint, he can't let that effect his work. He is doing his job and in a thought provoking manner. Of course you won't be surprised at my general agreement with most of Dk's points. :thumb:

More interesting to me was this little noticed blog entry by, hold your nose, Rossi;

Ah, but these are the Penguins – an organization that went so far in its zest to eliminate head shots three years ago that now general manager Ray Shero has constructed a club essentially devoid of players with, uh, punch.

To be fair, this probably is not something Shero prefers; but ownership – or, at least, ownership’s appointed decision makers – long ago made it clear the Penguins would no longer be the organization with an enforcer.

After all, being at the forefront of trying to change a hockey culture that wants no part of change was much more important than dedicating some cap-space to hired protection for stars such as Crosby and Evgeni Malkin.

Shero once acquired Georges Laraque and Gary Roberts to make the Penguins tough. He twice signed Matt Cooke, both times when Cooke was arguably the most hated – but also, arguably, the most feared – NHL forward. Eric Godard was once a Penguin.

There is no player among these Penguins that resembles any of those players, and Crosby is paying the price for it against the Rangers – as he and Malkin did against the Bruins last postseason.

Presuming Shero is the GM to continue building around Crosby and Malkin, a priority should be to bring in some muscle. If not a strict enforcer, certainly a forward of two that can do some dirty things to deter the dirtier ones being done to the franchise centers the last few postseasons.

Crosby – and Malkin, though less this postseason – are fair game to be criticized for not being better when it counts.

However, they’re far too often fair game in the playoffs, and the Penguins better start doing something about it. That would start with Shero being allowed to bring back the nasty to his team.

If he has not been flat-out told to keep the Penguins clean for the last three years, that desire certainly has been implied by organizational personnel that should not have any influence in hockey operations.

Read more: http://blog.triblive.com/chipped-ice/20 ... z31cF7dwcU
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook



:shock:

Blame shifting has begun?? Has Shero been handcuffed in bringing in certain types of players? It seems that someone close to Shero is trying to shape the post apocalypse narrative and deflect the blame. A desire from upper management to "keep it clean" doesn't excuse the overall lack of size and grit. Is there internal dissension regarding the lack of protection for Sid?
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