Hypothetical questions

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Hypothetical questions

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Wed May 14, 2014 9:13 am

If Bylsma was axed after last years debacle of an Eastern Conference Final, how well do you think the penguins would have faired in the 2014 playoffs?

Also, do your expectations change for next year assuming Bylsma is replaced?

Discuss at your leisure.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby King Sid the Great 87 on Wed May 14, 2014 9:17 am

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:If Bylsma was axed after last years debacle of an Eastern Conference Final, how well do you think the penguins would have faired in the 2014 playoffs?

Also, do your expectations change for next year assuming Bylsma is replaced?

Discuss at your leisure.


1)The same

2)No. The next coach is going to be saddled with a lot of the same group that Shero gave Bylsma. Shero is equally to blame for this mess. Any perceived difference in ability that may exist between Crosby, Malkin and the rest of the league has proven incapable of overcoming the rest of the team's short-comings the last several offseasons. Those short comings will be even more difficult to correct now that Letang's mistake of a contract is kicking in.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed May 14, 2014 9:32 am

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:If Bylsma was axed after last years debacle of an Eastern Conference Final, how well do you think the penguins would have faired in the 2014 playoffs?

Also, do your expectations change for next year assuming Bylsma is replaced?

Discuss at your leisure.


1)The same

2)No. The next coach is going to be saddled with a lot of the same group that Shero gave Bylsma. Shero is equally to blame for this mess. Any perceived difference in ability that may exist between Crosby, Malkin and the rest of the league has proven incapable of overcoming the rest of the team's short-comings the last several offseasons. Those short comings will be even more difficult to correct now that Letang's mistake of a contract is kicking in.



I agree with you. This is much more than simply a coaching problem. The penguins have absolutely 0 forward depth. Shero has had 8 drafts since joining the penguins and I would say they have been very disappointing to say the least.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby penny lane on Wed May 14, 2014 9:47 am

Thing is; for 3 games the pens played play off hockey ; earned their 3 to 1 advantage. Friday night; what changed ? Are they that fragile to not have a response to a team's desperation? Coaching with player accountability needed! Obvious from game 5 a response from Sid wasn't coming. YOu take kunitz and put him with neal and malkin.

Today, tomorrow, Dan will never say this was his fault.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby DayWalker on Wed May 14, 2014 10:03 am

Regardless of who the coach is, if the poor schmuck is saddled with a roster requiring Sidney Crosby to take the ice in a Game 7 with linemates named Kunitz, Gibbons, and Stempniak, he will lose, too.

Make major changes to the roster or nothing changes at all. The coach is less to blame than the poorly-constructed roster.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby Kharlamov on Wed May 14, 2014 10:13 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:
King Sid the Great 87 wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:If Bylsma was axed after last years debacle of an Eastern Conference Final, how well do you think the penguins would have faired in the 2014 playoffs?

Also, do your expectations change for next year assuming Bylsma is replaced?

Discuss at your leisure.


1)The same

2)No. The next coach is going to be saddled with a lot of the same group that Shero gave Bylsma. Shero is equally to blame for this mess. Any perceived difference in ability that may exist between Crosby, Malkin and the rest of the league has proven incapable of overcoming the rest of the team's short-comings the last several offseasons. Those short comings will be even more difficult to correct now that Letang's mistake of a contract is kicking in.



I agree with you. This is much more than simply a coaching problem. The penguins have absolutely 0 forward depth. Shero has had 8 drafts since joining the penguins and I would say they have been very disappointing to say the least.


Perennial regular season champs (high draft picks) + trade most draft picks away (for a UFA vet--is exciting during the regular season, but there is a consequence) + prefer to draft defenseman (then sign older/worse ones) + not particularly good drafters in the first place = The situation the Pens are in.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby DayWalker on Wed May 14, 2014 10:21 am

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:If Bylsma was axed after last years debacle of an Eastern Conference Final, how well do you think the penguins would have faired in the 2014 playoffs?

Also, do your expectations change for next year assuming Bylsma is replaced?

Discuss at your leisure.


1)The same

2)No. The next coach is going to be saddled with a lot of the same group that Shero gave Bylsma. Shero is equally to blame for this mess. Any perceived difference in ability that may exist between Crosby, Malkin and the rest of the league has proven incapable of overcoming the rest of the team's short-comings the last several offseasons. Those short comings will be even more difficult to correct now that Letang's mistake of a contract is kicking in.


I mean, Ray Shero is the guy who traded Ryan Whitney...
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby King Sid the Great 87 on Wed May 14, 2014 10:24 am

DayWalker wrote:
King Sid the Great 87 wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:If Bylsma was axed after last years debacle of an Eastern Conference Final, how well do you think the penguins would have faired in the 2014 playoffs?

Also, do your expectations change for next year assuming Bylsma is replaced?

Discuss at your leisure.


1)The same

2)No. The next coach is going to be saddled with a lot of the same group that Shero gave Bylsma. Shero is equally to blame for this mess. Any perceived difference in ability that may exist between Crosby, Malkin and the rest of the league has proven incapable of overcoming the rest of the team's short-comings the last several offseasons. Those short comings will be even more difficult to correct now that Letang's mistake of a contract is kicking in.


I mean, Ray Shero is the guy who traded Ryan Whitney...



I told you he sucked. :fist: If only draftnik was here to eat crow on that.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby sil on Wed May 14, 2014 10:29 am

Have you ever been in a cockpit before?

Do you like movies about Gladiators?
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby DayWalker on Wed May 14, 2014 10:33 am

King Sid the Great 87 wrote:
DayWalker wrote:
King Sid the Great 87 wrote:
KennyTheKangaroo wrote:If Bylsma was axed after last years debacle of an Eastern Conference Final, how well do you think the penguins would have faired in the 2014 playoffs?

Also, do your expectations change for next year assuming Bylsma is replaced?

Discuss at your leisure.


1)The same

2)No. The next coach is going to be saddled with a lot of the same group that Shero gave Bylsma. Shero is equally to blame for this mess. Any perceived difference in ability that may exist between Crosby, Malkin and the rest of the league has proven incapable of overcoming the rest of the team's short-comings the last several offseasons. Those short comings will be even more difficult to correct now that Letang's mistake of a contract is kicking in.


I mean, Ray Shero is the guy who traded Ryan Whitney...



I told you he sucked. :fist: If only draftnik was here to eat crow on that.


HA! If only he could have received more than Kunitz and Tangradi.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby sil on Wed May 14, 2014 10:40 am

DayWalker wrote:If only he could have received more than Kunitz and Tangradi.

Even with the fact that Tangradi turned out to be poop on skates, that trade was still a resounding win for Shero.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby DayWalker on Wed May 14, 2014 10:46 am

sil wrote:
DayWalker wrote:If only he could have received more than Kunitz and Tangradi.

Even with the fact that Tangradi turned out to be poop on skates, that trade was still a resounding win for Shero.


How so?
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby pittsoccer33 on Wed May 14, 2014 10:48 am

Whitney is in the AHL and Kunitz has been pretty good for us.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby DayWalker on Wed May 14, 2014 10:52 am

pittsoccer33 wrote:Whitney is in the AHL and Kunitz has been pretty good for us.


Sure, in the regular season.

I also think that Whitney's value as a scoring defenseman in 2009 should have netted more than pus on skates and a guy who climbs on a milk carton when the playoffs begin.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby wondermoose on Wed May 14, 2014 10:54 am

On his list of accomplishments, Ray Shero should put "Unloading Ryan Whitney" at the top. Forget that he got a serviceable forward and promising prospect out of it; Ryan Whitney had arguably the biggest albatross of a contract in the NHL at the time. What's even more impressive is he sent him to a good team, not just somewhere like Edmonton who would take anyone with a known name.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby DayWalker on Wed May 14, 2014 11:02 am

wondermoose wrote:On his list of accomplishments, Ray Shero should put "Unloading Ryan Whitney" at the top. Forget that he got a serviceable forward and promising prospect out of it; Ryan Whitney had arguably the biggest albatross of a contract in the NHL at the time. What's even more impressive is he sent him to a good team, not just somewhere like Edmonton who would take anyone with a known name.


I had no problem with moving Ryan; I would just like to have seen a better return.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby KennyTheKangaroo on Wed May 14, 2014 11:12 am

of all the things to complain about on a day like today, we find someone hemming and hawing about the ryan freakin whitney trade from five years ago.

becuase someone would like to see a "better return" than a top six forward
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed May 14, 2014 11:31 am

KennyTheKangaroo wrote:of all the things to complain about on a day like today, we find someone hemming and hawing about the ryan freakin whitney trade from five years ago.

becuase someone would like to see a "better return" than a top six forward


I don't like that trade because it combined with Neal to give Shero an over inflated view of puck moving dmen and develop and follow through on an absolutely atrocious drafting plan.

Kunitz and Neal aren't bad but are not all that and then some either. Those trades were not quite the steals everyone likes to think they were. Good trades but not highway robbery.

Now we have a couple good prospects at best. And no depth.
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed May 14, 2014 11:33 am

So to answer your question. No it wouldn't have helped. Our roster isn't good and our 2nd tier players are way overrated
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Re: Hypothetical questions

Postby Lt. Dish on Wed May 14, 2014 11:49 am

I think you can only say it would be the same if you assume that the new HC would use the personnel in exactly the same way and get exactly the same level of work out of them. I don't think you can assume that at all. A different HC could've done more with this team (conversely, a different HC could've done worse--and yes, there's a worse). So my answer is "no way to tell."
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