Changes the NHL should make

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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 20, 2014 10:25 am

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:It has nothing to do with actual game play but I think the NHL needs to get a deal done with ESPN/ABC. ESPN hardly shows (in my opinion) hockey highlights and analysis because they have no economic interest (compared to hammering in NBA playoffs because they have the rights to NBA games, especially the Finals.


ESPN tried to get the NHL's rights back a few years ago, the NBC/Versus threw a 10-year $2-billion offer at the NHL. Just like TSN vs Sportsnet here - if they wanted the rights that bad, they should've put up the money.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 20, 2014 10:36 am

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:2) Increase the size of the rink to Euro standards or at least somewhat wider. The players are too big, too fast and need more room to not only increase scoring but help decrease the risk of serious injury. Concussions have specifically gotten out of control and more room to skate would likely lessen those scary and "unpredictable" hits.


You'd think a larger ice surface would increase scoring but, according to Crosby and many other NHLers, it actually had the opposite effect in Sochi. I believe the way Crosby described it is that teams still box out and defende just as effectively as on an NHL-sized surface, but you're farther from the net; so you're trying to generate offense from farther away against goaltenders who are already incredibly hard to beat.

That was basically the recipe Latvia and every "lesser" team used against Canada - collapse, box out, and make them try to score from the boards or the point... and it's exactly what NHL coaches would do.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue May 20, 2014 10:44 am

Yes I'm fairly certain that a larger ice surface would actually make it more difficult to score. However, bigger goals and smaller goaltender equipment would increase scoring a great deal IMO.

They need to do something about all the shot blocking. It's a boring play and it slows the game down. Therefore, any defending player who lays on the ice to block a shot gets called for delay of game if the puck gets stuck underneath him or in his equipment.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby no name on Tue May 20, 2014 11:00 am

every time rule changes come up the NHL wants to take baby steps. THey always seem to thing if you take enought baby steps you will walk... Not the case. Like the making goalie pads smaller or making the nets corners a little more open. The height of goalie pads. None of these rules has had the desired effect. Drastic changes are needed to increase scoring. Ok maybe i don't want an increase to the 7 goals a game day but anything is better than watching this stale game. Only one 100 point scorer?? no one in the 90 point range??? I want to see the return of the 1.5 point per game player. I want to see 10 - 100 point scorers. I want to see Ovi or Stamkos reach the 70 goal plateau. Maybe even Sid could have a magical 2 points per season.

Lets face it no one will ever touch Gretzkys records with the game played as it is.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Tue May 20, 2014 1:21 pm

tfrizz wrote:
Hugo Stiglitz wrote:2) Increase the size of the rink to Euro standards or at least somewhat wider. The players are too big, too fast and need more room to not only increase scoring but help decrease the risk of serious injury. Concussions have specifically gotten out of control and more room to skate would likely lessen those scary and "unpredictable" hits.


You'd think a larger ice surface would increase scoring but, according to Crosby and many other NHLers, it actually had the opposite effect in Sochi. I believe the way Crosby described it is that teams still box out and defende just as effectively as on an NHL-sized surface, but you're farther from the net; so you're trying to generate offense from farther away against goaltenders who are already incredibly hard to beat.

That was basically the recipe Latvia and every "lesser" team used against Canada - collapse, box out, and make them try to score from the boards or the point... and it's exactly what NHL coaches would do.


Well first off the olympics are a very small sample size. I think it would make more sense to see how scoring is in the higher level Int'l leagues like Russian Super League and the Swedish Elite.

Second, I think it's more important to make the rink bigger for player safety than anything else. Hockey players are bigger, stronger and twice as fast as they were thirty years ago. Taken into account how many player injuries were never made public or held under wraps by the players themselves, serious injuries like concussions are on the rise as injuries in general.

Making the rink bigger gives players more time and space to react to incoming players. I'm not saying it will eliminate all those kinds of injuries, but IN THEORY it would decrease those incidents.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 20, 2014 1:52 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:Well first off the olympics are a very small sample size. I think it would make more sense to see how scoring is in the higher level Int'l leagues like Russian Super League and the Swedish Elite.

Second, I think it's more important to make the rink bigger for player safety than anything else. Hockey players are bigger, stronger and twice as fast as they were thirty years ago. Taken into account how many player injuries were never made public or held under wraps by the players themselves, serious injuries like concussions are on the rise as injuries in general.

Making the rink bigger gives players more time and space to react to incoming players. I'm not saying it will eliminate all those kinds of injuries, but IN THEORY it would decrease those incidents.


Well, a very simply metric is total goals / total games played.

In the SHL, there were 1742 goals scored in 660 games for an average of 2.64 goals per game. In the KHL, there were 1927 goals scored in 756 games for an average of 2.55 goals per game. In comparison, the NHL had 6751 goals scored in 2460 games for an average of 2.74 goals per game.

So the statistics actually support the notion that the smaller ice surface promotes more scoring.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby sil on Tue May 20, 2014 1:54 pm

Get rid of the new jersey tuck rule.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue May 20, 2014 1:57 pm

tfrizz wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:It has nothing to do with actual game play but I think the NHL needs to get a deal done with ESPN/ABC. ESPN hardly shows (in my opinion) hockey highlights and analysis because they have no economic interest (compared to hammering in NBA playoffs because they have the rights to NBA games, especially the Finals.


ESPN tried to get the NHL's rights back a few years ago, the NBC/Versus threw a 10-year $2-billion offer at the NHL. Just like TSN vs Sportsnet here - if they wanted the rights that bad, they should've put up the money.


The NHL needs ESPN more than ESPN needs the NHL.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 20, 2014 2:12 pm

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:It has nothing to do with actual game play but I think the NHL needs to get a deal done with ESPN/ABC. ESPN hardly shows (in my opinion) hockey highlights and analysis because they have no economic interest (compared to hammering in NBA playoffs because they have the rights to NBA games, especially the Finals.


ESPN tried to get the NHL's rights back a few years ago, the NBC/Versus threw a 10-year $2-billion offer at the NHL. Just like TSN vs Sportsnet here - if they wanted the rights that bad, they should've put up the money.


The NHL needs ESPN more than ESPN needs the NHL.


What makes you think that? The NHL is doing better than ever right now, thanks in large part to the exposure generated by NBC/NBCSN. Even if they had gone back to ESPN, they's still be a second class citizen on there; with NBC, they're at the top of the food chain.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue May 20, 2014 2:23 pm

tfrizz wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:It has nothing to do with actual game play but I think the NHL needs to get a deal done with ESPN/ABC. ESPN hardly shows (in my opinion) hockey highlights and analysis because they have no economic interest (compared to hammering in NBA playoffs because they have the rights to NBA games, especially the Finals.


ESPN tried to get the NHL's rights back a few years ago, the NBC/Versus threw a 10-year $2-billion offer at the NHL. Just like TSN vs Sportsnet here - if they wanted the rights that bad, they should've put up the money.


The NHL needs ESPN more than ESPN needs the NHL.


What makes you think that? The NHL is doing better than ever right now, thanks in large part to the exposure generated by NBC/NBCSN. Even if they had gone back to ESPN, they's still be a second class citizen on there; with NBC, they're at the top of the food chain.


from http://www.forbes.com/sites/jesselawren ... ox-office/

While the NHL has the edge on the secondary market, the NBA has been trouncing the NHL in television viewership in the 18-49 demographic. On Tuesday night, game 5 between the Wizards and Pacers nearly doubled the ratings of a game 7 between the Rangers and Pittsburgh Penguins, 1.3 to .7 in the same 7pm Eastern timeslot. The most watched program of the night was game 4 between the Clippers and Oklahoma City Thunder, which started at 9:40pm Eastern and had a 2.6 rating. Monday night’s Heat-Nets game 5 more than tripled the rating of game 6 between the Bruins and Canadiens, 2.2 to .7.


Not to mention the two NHL game 7s were almost infinitely more exciting than the Wizards and Heat blowing out the Pacers and Nets.

I think ESPN does a great job at hyping events...just look at what they did with the NFL draft. 2 months of non-stop draft talk and it got a higher rating than the NBA and NHL playoff games on the same night.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby ulf on Tue May 20, 2014 2:32 pm

I think there's a large portion of the population that just throws on ESPN instinctively. They could show fly fishing at 7 o'clock and I think it'd have good ratings. I'm not sure of what I'm getting at in regards to the NHL/ESPN debate but I think it's true.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 20, 2014 2:35 pm

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:from http://www.forbes.com/sites/jesselawren ... ox-office/

While the NHL has the edge on the secondary market, the NBA has been trouncing the NHL in television viewership in the 18-49 demographic. On Tuesday night, game 5 between the Wizards and Pacers nearly doubled the ratings of a game 7 between the Rangers and Pittsburgh Penguins, 1.3 to .7 in the same 7pm Eastern timeslot. The most watched program of the night was game 4 between the Clippers and Oklahoma City Thunder, which started at 9:40pm Eastern and had a 2.6 rating. Monday night’s Heat-Nets game 5 more than tripled the rating of game 6 between the Bruins and Canadiens, 2.2 to .7.


Not to mention the two NHL game 7s were almost infinitely more exciting than the Wizards and Heat blowing out the Pacers and Nets.

I think ESPN does a great job at hyping events...just look at what they did with the NFL draft. 2 months of non-stop draft talk and it got a higher rating than the NBA and NHL playoff games on the same night.


That still doesn't solve the likelihood that ESPN would continue to treat the NHL like a second class citizen. It'd continue to be a footnote on a network with the rights to just about everything.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby no name on Tue May 20, 2014 2:47 pm

Take your choice.

Be a small dog on a big network (ESPN)
Or
Be the top dog on a small network (NBCSN)

I don't know which is better??
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 20, 2014 3:02 pm

no name wrote:Take your choice.

Be a small dog on a big network (ESPN)
Or
Be the top dog on a small network (NBCSN)

I don't know which is better??


Being the top dog on a small network has been paying the bills. I highly doubt the NHL would be getting the same $200-million per year from ESPN that they're getting from NBC. As I mentioned earlier, it's a similar situation here with TSN vs Sportsnet. Sportsnet's hockey broadcasts are beyond bad (but hopefully improving?), their viewership is much lower than TSN's, but they've got the NHL's rights starting next season because they were willing to spend to the tune of $5.2-billion over 12 years ($433-million per year). As nice as it'd be to rival others for ratings, they really mean very little to the NHL as long as broadcasters like NBC and Sportsnet are willing to shell out big bucks for their rights. That said, I don't think having the NHL on ESPN would have any real affect on ratings. They recently had a poll asking whether the NBA or NHL playoffs were more exciting, and the NHL won in a landslide - so clearly ESPN's viewers are already plenty aware of hockey's existence.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Tue May 20, 2014 3:14 pm

tfrizz wrote:That still doesn't solve the likelihood that ESPN would continue to treat the NHL like a second class citizen. It'd continue to be a footnote on a network with the rights to just about everything.


As much as NBC wants to do it, they can't handle the NHL all by themselves. A big reason why NHL ratings aren't amazing is because NBC Sports is such a fringe network. I remember when Versus had the rights and I literally couldn't find the channel. And they only rarely show games on NBC's main channel.

If the NHL could show two games on ESPN 2 a week that wouldn't normally be shown and get ESPN talking heads (Kornhesier, Wilbon, Cowherd, Simmons) to actually talk about it (other than just the talking points e.g. "Rangers have had 5 games in 7 days", etc.) I think popularity would increase greatly.


It's a pretty unsubstantiated claim though, so take it for what it's worth (aka nothing).
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby penmyst on Tue May 20, 2014 7:43 pm

Nothing is ever going to make hockey higher than 4th tier in the U.S.

Feetsball has a lock on number 1. Basketball and baseball scrap it out for 2/3. And then there is hockey. Has MLS supplanted hockey yet? Nobody cares.

The only thing I don't quite understand is how baseball remains in the top 3. In today's era of technology-induced ADD, how does that sport still even draw viewers? Is it because you can facebook and text while watching and miss nothing? I dunno. The biggest draw to watching baseball is the cerebral matchup of pitcher v. hitter. And I know that most sports fans lack in the cerebral anything. /shrug
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby shmenguin on Tue May 20, 2014 8:32 pm

tfrizz wrote:
interstorm wrote:More scoring = more excitement


Absolutely WRONG. Scoring chances = excitement. You could make the nets 30' x 60' resulting in double-digit goals every game and it's going to be unbearably awful to watch.


Scoring chances = excitement

A greater conversion rate on scoring chances = even more excitement

Goalies need to get worse. Half the saves people drool over seem to be the result of pretty basic technique or marshmallowism
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby LordStanley919209 on Tue May 20, 2014 10:14 pm

Eliminate the Gretzky Rule. Create more four on four situations with open ice.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 20, 2014 11:54 pm

shmenguin wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
interstorm wrote:More scoring = more excitement


Absolutely WRONG. Scoring chances = excitement. You could make the nets 30' x 60' resulting in double-digit goals every game and it's going to be unbearably awful to watch.


Scoring chances = excitement

A greater conversion rate on scoring chances = even more excitement

Goalies need to get worse. Half the saves people drool over seem to be the result of pretty basic technique or marshmallowism


And that's not going to happen any time soon. Over the past 35-40 years, goaltenders have transformed from "the guy on the team who wasn't in good enough shape to play out" to perhaps the most athletic individuals in hockey.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby Scott on Thu May 22, 2014 8:20 pm

The league is miles from where it was ten years ago from a viewers perspective...but still a distant #4 sport of the majors. The goalie equipment is gigantic. Get that crap smaller which makes the effective shooting areas bigger. Between the trap...teaching players how to block every single shot, and those huge goalie pads the game leaves a ton of scoring on the table.

Btw, North America loves offense.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby pressure=9Pa on Thu May 22, 2014 8:34 pm

Making the ice wider really helps the penalty killers. There are a lot of lanes to quickly get the puck down the ice.

Allowing icing during the penalty kill also has a negative effect, in that taking the icing is still a legitimate strategy. That leads to a lot of dead pucks and faceoffs and slows the game down.

I'm all for calling penalties. I've never understood this one, I always figured the average fan would love 5-4, 4-3, 5-3 situations. More penalties should be called in a big game.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby pressure=9Pa on Thu May 22, 2014 8:37 pm

ulf wrote:I think there's a large portion of the population that just throws on ESPN instinctively. They could show fly fishing at 7 o'clock and I think it'd have good ratings. I'm not sure of what I'm getting at in regards to the NHL/ESPN debate but I think it's true.


If you are a hockey fan age 30-45 in the US who has never lived in a team's local market, chances are that ESPN's coverage in the 1990's had something to do with it.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby interstorm on Thu May 22, 2014 10:10 pm

i don't want more penalties called to create more powerplays (and thus powerplay goals). i'd like to see 5-5 play carry most of the scoring and scoring chances. i'd hate to see the winner of a game as the one who statistically takes less penalties.

that being said i'd like to see penalties called just to players adjust and take less penalties -- especially for obstruction and interference.

i feel like options such as increasing the size of the goal is viewed as too radical and something that would turn off the longtime NHL fan. given that NHL fans came back strong after 2 lockouts in a short amount of time, i'd say they (we) would live with anything -- so the NHL should look beyond us (almost to the point of not considering what we would think) and see what would capture non-hockey people's attention. as one pointed out earlier -- any time you have a player like moore neutralizing one of the best players in the world, you're horribly missing the path to market yourself.
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby dagny on Fri May 23, 2014 3:17 am

pressure=9Pa wrote:
ulf wrote:I think there's a large portion of the population that just throws on ESPN instinctively. They could show fly fishing at 7 o'clock and I think it'd have good ratings. I'm not sure of what I'm getting at in regards to the NHL/ESPN debate but I think it's true.


If you are a hockey fan age 30-45 in the US who has never lived in a team's local market, chances are that ESPN's coverage in the 1990's had something to do with it.


Yep.

It's how I first saw this amazing player that I couldn't take my eyes off of... Jaromir Jagr. It's what made me want to see any game with the Penguins that I could, and what made me go online to learn more about hockey, and especially the Pittsburgh Penguins, leading me to a little messageboard called letsgopens.com. It's what led me to becoming a die-hard Pens fans, despite being born and raised in Orange County, California. :D
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Re: Changes the NHL should make

Postby DropEmJayBird on Fri May 23, 2014 6:49 am

In terms of interference - I'd settle for just calling any time a free hand is used, it's a penalty.
We saw James Neal get away with it early in the NYR series, then have it called in game 7... should be a penalty every single time.

I'd also like to see any type of face wash, punch, whatever to the face/head be a 2 minute roughing call. Automatic. Post whistle/pre whistle.. during the game.
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