Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Mon May 19, 2014 7:54 pm

Factorial wrote:
slappybrown wrote:I hold us to a higher standard than Yahoo or ESPN comments.


But the standard has slouched down to HFBoards in the last year or so.


I take credit for that.

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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 19, 2014 7:55 pm

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
Factorial wrote:
slappybrown wrote:I hold us to a higher standard than Yahoo or ESPN comments.


But the standard has slouched down to HFBoards in the last year or so.


I take credit for that.

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I finally agree with you.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Mon May 19, 2014 8:18 pm

slappybrown wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
Factorial wrote:
slappybrown wrote:I hold us to a higher standard than Yahoo or ESPN comments.


But the standard has slouched down to HFBoards in the last year or so.


I take credit for that.

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I finally agree with you.


Rookie mistake
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Factorial on Mon May 19, 2014 9:49 pm

The Letang contract will be considered to be a bargain in a few years. Look at the stiffs that are making 5 per year already.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby columbia on Mon May 19, 2014 9:51 pm

Sure. It's the 2-3 years where they will be signing players like D'Agostini to fill out a roster that are the concern.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Rocco on Mon May 19, 2014 10:11 pm

Factorial wrote:The Letang contract will be considered to be a bargain in a few years. Look at the stiffs that are making 5 per year already.


Sure, though it's a fair question to ask if spending $7M on Letang is a wise investment on a team with little forward depth and lots of defensemen in the pipeline that will eventually need to play.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby sniper on Mon May 19, 2014 10:19 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:I would say 5 million is much closer to the appropriate number for Letang than is 7.25


Andrew Macdonald will be making 5 million a year for the next 6 years beginning next year....I don't know about you but I"ll take Letang at 7.25 million a year over that any day of the week. The man averaged over a point a game last season. Granted it was a strike shortened season, but that hasn't been done in nearly 20 years. His offensive peak is above almost every defenseman in the league. He's defensive peak isn't there, but it's not horrendous either. He's certainly better than Macdonald.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Desiato on Mon May 19, 2014 10:29 pm

The problem with Letang's contract isn't that it's unfair. The problem is that the Penguins are presently paying too many market-value contracts.

The failing of Shero was to obtain good bang for the buck young players on first and second contracts. The draft itself isn't really an issue because there are other sources. Basically, he was unable to find contributors with whom the Pens had negotiation leverage.

Part of the recipe for success in the post-cap NHL is cheap contributors. The Pens had those in 08 and 09. They enabled depth. A challenge now is those cheap contributors are now gone or big money players. The season the Pens won the cup, Geno's cap hit was $984,200.

In order to correct this, the pens need to drop market-value contracts and take risks on some young players. Shero never demonstrated he was good at this.

Edit: I take that back. Early on, Shero did a great job of getting some good bang for the buck players. The failure came later when he failed to replace them. And I say fail loosely. Fail in the sense of not keeping up with Chicago.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby sniper on Mon May 19, 2014 10:57 pm

Desiato wrote:The problem with Letang's contract isn't that it's unfair. The problem is that the Penguins are presently paying too many market-value contracts.

The failing of Shero was to obtain good bang for the buck young players on first and second contracts. The draft itself isn't really an issue because there are other sources. Basically, he was unable to find contributors with whom the Pens had negotiation leverage.

Part of the recipe for success in the post-cap NHL is cheap contributors. The Pens had those in 08 and 09. They enabled depth. A challenge now is those cheap contributors are now gone or big money players. The season the Pens won the cup, Geno's cap hit was $984,200.

In order to correct this, the pens need to drop market-value contracts and take risks on some young players. Shero never demonstrated he was good at this.

Edit: I take that back. Early on, Shero did a great job of getting some good bang for the buck players. The failure came later when he failed to replace them. And I say fail loosely. Fail in the sense of not keeping up with Chicago.


Really the only below significantly below market value contract you could say he got was Letang's second contract. At $3.5 Million per year he was a steal most of that contract. When he first signed it people were concerned it was too high, by the end nobody thought that. Dupuis also was paid less than he was worth until this season. The majority of the rest of them got paid around what they were worth. You could argue Malkin and Crosby took less than they could have gotten in the open market, but no team could win with them had they taken that.

Chicago lucked out big time getting Keith and Hossa at their contracts. Both those guys should be making more than Letang. They were both signed before the new CBA. Hossa's contract might come back to hurt them a little at the end, but Keith's likely won't. He's a major, major steal. Hopefully Toews and Kane get paid more than their actually worth on their next deals. Right now they are on deals that are below what they are worth. That's how it works though. As you near the end of your best players contracts their cap hits are supposed to look like deals. Shero did set that up well. He locked up the core. The first few years of their new contracts will be tough but the last half is where you can fill out the rest of the team and make real good runs. The last two years is where the Pens missed out. That's when they had the chance to load up and go for it. They did, but it didn't work out. This year and next were supposed to be lean years, although they are still a top 2 team in the East or at least should be. The Rangers have no business playing right now.

At any rate they have a chance to lock up a guy like Despres and Bennett to good long term deals when their contracts expire. Let's see if they can do that. It takes two sides to make a deal and players agents aren't stupid.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue May 20, 2014 11:00 am

slappybrown wrote:
columbia wrote:They were discussing the wrong question.

I agree that your question is the heart of the Letang issue. Its my own fault; this is what happens when I let myself get sucked into a THG vortex of discursive dead ends, aimlessly ambling like a patient with advanced dementia to a constantly changing finish line. Add in whatever it is that "MalkinIsMyHomeboy" is "contributing", and I regret the past few hours.


You're welcome to your opinion, but I just can't see any reason to pay an "offensive defenseman" 7.25M a year when he cant QB the PP at an elite level.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby superconan on Tue May 20, 2014 11:10 am

sniper wrote:At any rate they have a chance to lock up a guy like Despres and Bennett to good long term deals when their contracts expire. Let's see if they can do that. It takes two sides to make a deal and players agents aren't stupid.


Isn't Despres a RFA?
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue May 20, 2014 11:11 am

superconan wrote:
sniper wrote:At any rate they have a chance to lock up a guy like Despres and Bennett to good long term deals when their contracts expire. Let's see if they can do that. It takes two sides to make a deal and players agents aren't stupid.


Isn't Despres a RFA?


Yes, and Bennett has 1 more year prior to being a RFA
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue May 20, 2014 11:28 am

Rocco wrote:
Factorial wrote:The Letang contract will be considered to be a bargain in a few years. Look at the stiffs that are making 5 per year already.


Sure, though it's a fair question to ask if spending $7M on Letang is a wise investment on a team with little forward depth and lots of defensemen in the pipeline that will eventually need to play.


That's where I'm coming from. The organization is stacked on D, young guys who will come in on entry level deals, and they are paying this much to a guy who can't run the power play or stay healthy.

When Pouliot arrives, he'll be the best power play QB they have had since Gonchar.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby slappybrown on Tue May 20, 2014 12:25 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
columbia wrote:They were discussing the wrong question.

I agree that your question is the heart of the Letang issue. Its my own fault; this is what happens when I let myself get sucked into a THG vortex of discursive dead ends, aimlessly ambling like a patient with advanced dementia to a constantly changing finish line. Add in whatever it is that "MalkinIsMyHomeboy" is "contributing", and I regret the past few hours.


You're welcome to your opinion, but I just can't see any reason to pay an "offensive defenseman" 7.25M a year when he cant QB the PP at an elite level.

Ok, but this all started not because you said that, which is perfectly fine, but because you said a bunch of wild opinions backed up by poor comparisons.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue May 20, 2014 1:42 pm

The comparisons I made were to elite defensemen in the league. As you pointed out those deals were signed prior to Letangs and in most cases circumvented the cap. That aside, the Chara's, Weber's, Subban's and Keith's of the league all have an elite aspect to their game and can QB the PP. Letang's ability to skate and recover would place him in that elite company if he could also QB the PP.

He may still round out his game to include that, but at this point I cant see paying him amongst the NHL's elite with that hole in his game.

I dont think I've changed my stance, just clarified some of my opinions.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby count2infinity on Tue May 20, 2014 2:16 pm

Image
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue May 20, 2014 6:02 pm

sniper wrote:
Mr. Colby wrote:I would say 5 million is much closer to the appropriate number for Letang than is 7.25


Andrew Macdonald will be making 5 million a year for the next 6 years beginning next year....I don't know about you but I"ll take Letang at 7.25 million a year over that any day of the week. The man averaged over a point a game last season. Granted it was a strike shortened season, but that hasn't been done in nearly 20 years. His offensive peak is above almost every defenseman in the league. He's defensive peak isn't there, but it's not horrendous either. He's certainly better than Macdonald.


Well that's really just using one bad contract to justify another
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