Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby mac5155 on Mon May 19, 2014 3:59 pm

meow wrote:
mac5155 wrote:
meow wrote:
mac5155 wrote:I forget who it was, probably Dejan cause he's about the only reporter around here worth anything, but he said that Letang should be where Doughty is and he isn't even close. That really sunk in.

What is that suppose to mean?


That his development hasnt really gone how it should have.

My main concern is that you think Dejan is worth anything.


As opposed to Rossi, who would be better suited writing for the Star?
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Cr@zy871 on Mon May 19, 2014 4:11 pm

Kaizer wrote:
Cr@zy871 wrote:So let em get this correct. He is off for close to 3 months, then comes back, plays 15 games, and now has a broken hand and foot...

Dude is made of glass, no way does he live up to that contract value... Especially if he is only playing ~50 games/season. Ray really shot us in the foot with this one.


i love this argument. just like when someone here said Staal was injury prone because subban sliced him open with a skate blade. do you know how his foot and hand got broken? its very possible that whatever caused these injuries would have the same effect on any player. are you saying hes too unlucky to keep a roster spot?


So when does "unluckiness" turn into a trend... because if you look at the "Transaction/Injuries" section in the link below, it looks like it is beginning to trend to me...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=5031
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon May 19, 2014 4:23 pm

slappybrown wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
penny lane wrote:My hope is that with a new head coach, a new system, Kris Letang plays a consistently high level game.
That is my hope for a more than a few of the penguin players.


Whats unfortunate is if Letang plays at the top of his game he is a $5M a year player.

lol ok


haha. Way to chime in, but Letang making more than Chara, Doughty, and Keith is insane.


I mean I really shouldn't have to do this, but ok:

Chara's contract went into effect at age 35. Have fun paying Chara a $6.9mm cap hit at age 40 plus.

Doughty's contract is a deal. It also went into effect in 2011-2012, not 2014-2015 like Letang's.

Keith's is an old cap circumvention deal and is 13 years long. Comparing that to Letang's deal post-new CBA makes no sense.

Second, your comment was Letang maxes out as a 5mm a year player if he plays at the top of his game. Not, "Drew Doughty's contract is better than Letang's contract"; were it the latter, no one would have said anything, because: no ****.

If Letang plays as well as he did in 2011-2012, then no one is going to complain about his contract. Saying that you don't think he can is reasonable; saying that at best he's a 5mm a year player ignores reality.


What does Letang do well besides use his skating to cover his mistakes?
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Crankshaft on Mon May 19, 2014 4:40 pm

Oh lord...
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby meow on Mon May 19, 2014 4:41 pm

Let's start with score more points.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 19, 2014 4:52 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
What does Letang do well besides use his skating to cover his mistakes?

He is deployed in all three phases. He's an excellent skater, which allows to take more risks and cover for his partner's physical limitations. He's very quick. He's the best defenseman we have at the transition from d-zone to offense. He's above-average to elite from an offensive standpoint in passing, shooting, and creativity at his position. He's extremely strong, particularly for his size. He's one of the best pure athletes on the team, and goes stretches where he is playing close to or over 30 minutes a night, which is insane and something very few blueliners can do. He's tough, as evidenced by his playing with two fractures in the most recent series. His PPG in recent years indicates someone who will put up 50-60 pts a year, which is elite for a dman.

He also chases points. He has a bad temper and loses it too often. His inability to consistently play a quieter game in his own end holds him back from the true top end of his position. His mistakes are very obvious ones, which make it easier to seize upon them and laugh/cry. Whether you want to call him injury-prone or not, he's missed a lot of time in recent seasons and that's a problem. His hockey IQ has always been relatively low, and it hasn't substantially improved.

If you think his maximum worth is $5mm per, then we just disagree, and I think you have a very unrealistic view of both his abilities and the market for dmen. If you want to say he's not worth 7.25/per, go nuts. I think/hope he can be the player we saw last regular season, but if he never lived up to the play he showed that season, it wouldn't be "stunning."
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Humperdink on Mon May 19, 2014 4:55 pm

This thread is an education in hair-splitting. Entertaining though.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Kaizer on Mon May 19, 2014 4:57 pm

Cr@zy871 wrote:
Kaizer wrote:
Cr@zy871 wrote:So let em get this correct. He is off for close to 3 months, then comes back, plays 15 games, and now has a broken hand and foot...

Dude is made of glass, no way does he live up to that contract value... Especially if he is only playing ~50 games/season. Ray really shot us in the foot with this one.


i love this argument. just like when someone here said Staal was injury prone because subban sliced him open with a skate blade. do you know how his foot and hand got broken? its very possible that whatever caused these injuries would have the same effect on any player. are you saying hes too unlucky to keep a roster spot?


So when does "unluckiness" turn into a trend... because if you look at the "Transaction/Injuries" section in the link below, it looks like it is beginning to trend to me...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=5031


and if you look at the dates next to those things, youll see that many of the bullets are for the same thing, reevaluated. unless you actually believe he went on IR 15 times for different things in 2 years.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon May 19, 2014 4:57 pm

Where do you rank him vs Gonchar as a PP QB? I just dont see him ever being Gonchar on the PP, and thats a HUGE reason why he isnt worth his contract. If he had Gonchar's shot and defensive awareness I'd be with you.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby count2infinity on Mon May 19, 2014 5:02 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:Where do you rank him vs Gonchar as a PP QB? I just dont see him ever being Gonchar on the PP, and thats a HUGE reason why he isnt worth his contract. If he had Gonchar's shot and defensive awareness I'd be with you.


I don't think anyone here is arguing that he isn't worth his contract, but to deny that he's a top level Dman when he's on his game... c'mon. We're not talking about Tyler Myers here.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 19, 2014 5:03 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:Where do you rank him vs Gonchar as a PP QB? I just dont see him ever being Gonchar on the PP, and thats a HUGE reason why he isnt worth his contract. If he had Gonchar's shot and defensive awareness I'd be with you.


I've never seen Letang run a PP as effectively as Gonchar has. Letang has also been doing it as the lead guy for ~3 years, Gonchar for, what, 15 now?
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby shafnutz05 on Mon May 19, 2014 5:57 pm

slappybrown wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
What does Letang do well besides use his skating to cover his mistakes?

He is deployed in all three phases. He's an excellent skater, which allows to take more risks and cover for his partner's physical limitations. He's very quick. He's the best defenseman we have at the transition from d-zone to offense. He's above-average to elite from an offensive standpoint in passing, shooting, and creativity at his position. He's extremely strong, particularly for his size. He's one of the best pure athletes on the team, and goes stretches where he is playing close to or over 30 minutes a night, which is insane and something very few blueliners can do. He's tough, as evidenced by his playing with two fractures in the most recent series. His PPG in recent years indicates someone who will put up 50-60 pts a year, which is elite for a dman.

He also chases points. He has a bad temper and loses it too often. His inability to consistently play a quieter game in his own end holds him back from the true top end of his position. His mistakes are very obvious ones, which make it easier to seize upon them and laugh/cry. Whether you want to call him injury-prone or not, he's missed a lot of time in recent seasons and that's a problem. His hockey IQ has always been relatively low, and it hasn't substantially improved.

If you think his maximum worth is $5mm per, then we just disagree, and I think you have a very unrealistic view of both his abilities and the market for dmen. If you want to say he's not worth 7.25/per, go nuts. I think/hope he can be the player we saw last regular season, but if he never lived up to the play he showed that season, it wouldn't be "stunning."


:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Great read, slappy, and a fantastic breakdown. It's a pleasure to read your posts, always high quality :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 19, 2014 5:59 pm

shafnutz05 wrote:
slappybrown wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
What does Letang do well besides use his skating to cover his mistakes?

He is deployed in all three phases. He's an excellent skater, which allows to take more risks and cover for his partner's physical limitations. He's very quick. He's the best defenseman we have at the transition from d-zone to offense. He's above-average to elite from an offensive standpoint in passing, shooting, and creativity at his position. He's extremely strong, particularly for his size. He's one of the best pure athletes on the team, and goes stretches where he is playing close to or over 30 minutes a night, which is insane and something very few blueliners can do. He's tough, as evidenced by his playing with two fractures in the most recent series. His PPG in recent years indicates someone who will put up 50-60 pts a year, which is elite for a dman.

He also chases points. He has a bad temper and loses it too often. His inability to consistently play a quieter game in his own end holds him back from the true top end of his position. His mistakes are very obvious ones, which make it easier to seize upon them and laugh/cry. Whether you want to call him injury-prone or not, he's missed a lot of time in recent seasons and that's a problem. His hockey IQ has always been relatively low, and it hasn't substantially improved.

If you think his maximum worth is $5mm per, then we just disagree, and I think you have a very unrealistic view of both his abilities and the market for dmen. If you want to say he's not worth 7.25/per, go nuts. I think/hope he can be the player we saw last regular season, but if he never lived up to the play he showed that season, it wouldn't be "stunning."


:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Great read, slappy, and a fantastic breakdown. It's a pleasure to read your posts, always high quality :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


Take that, NAN.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon May 19, 2014 6:09 pm

count2infinity wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Where do you rank him vs Gonchar as a PP QB? I just dont see him ever being Gonchar on the PP, and thats a HUGE reason why he isnt worth his contract. If he had Gonchar's shot and defensive awareness I'd be with you.


I don't think anyone here is arguing that he isn't worth his contract, but to deny that he's a top level Dman when he's on his game... c'mon. We're not talking about Tyler Myers here.


Thats exactly what I am arguing, he isnt worth 7.25M against the cap.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon May 19, 2014 6:11 pm

slappybrown wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:Where do you rank him vs Gonchar as a PP QB? I just dont see him ever being Gonchar on the PP, and thats a HUGE reason why he isnt worth his contract. If he had Gonchar's shot and defensive awareness I'd be with you.


I've never seen Letang run a PP as effectively as Gonchar has. Letang has also been doing it as the lead guy for ~3 years, Gonchar for, what, 15 now?


What is your point? That over the life of Letang's contract he will at somepoint be as good if not better than Gonchar at running the PP/shooting from the point?
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby columbia on Mon May 19, 2014 6:12 pm

The question was/is whether paying him that much - in light of the two other big contracts - was a prudent move. Shero thought so, but he ain't around anymore.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon May 19, 2014 6:13 pm

I would say 5 million is much closer to the appropriate number for Letang than is 7.25
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon May 19, 2014 6:14 pm

columbia wrote:The question was/is whether paying him that much - in light of the two other big contracts - was a prudent move. Shero thought so, but he ain't around anymore.


I think if you put Letang on the block you have zero takers. That's all you need to know about whether he is paid too much.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby ulf on Mon May 19, 2014 6:52 pm

If he hit the market, he would have made at least 7.25. You're worth what someone pays you, you know?
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon May 19, 2014 6:58 pm

Letang has the talent to be worth 7.25 million to some team. Not Pittsburgh though, all things considered.

Really it comes down to what you want your team's identity to be. If you want a run-and-gun team with a lower regard for stopping the other team from scoring, pay letang 7.25. If you like a disciplined, well-rounded defense, then don't.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Mon May 19, 2014 7:13 pm

slappybrown wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:
Chara will only be making 4 million when he's 41 and that's the last year of his deal.

Besides, he's such a physical freak that he can probably play until he's 45 and still be a top 4 d-man.

It's ok to say that we're overpaying Letang, no one is going to punch you for it.

You should re-read and try again.

Chara will only be making 4 million when he's 41 and that's the last year of his deal.

Besides, he's such a physical freak that he can probably play until he's 45 and still be a top 4 d-man.

It's ok to say that we're overpaying Letang, no one is going to punch you for it.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby Factorial on Mon May 19, 2014 7:46 pm

slappybrown wrote:I hold us to a higher standard than Yahoo or ESPN comments.


But the standard has slouched down to HFBoards in the last year or so.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby count2infinity on Mon May 19, 2014 7:48 pm

columbia wrote:The question was/is whether paying him that much - in light of the two other big contracts - was a prudent move. Shero thought so, but he ain't around anymore.


what was being discussed in the few posts before this was whether Letang at the height of his game is a 5 mil per year defenseman, and the answer is hands down, without a doubt, yes.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby columbia on Mon May 19, 2014 7:49 pm

They were discussing the wrong question.
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Re: Letang broke foot/hand according to RDS

Postby slappybrown on Mon May 19, 2014 7:54 pm

columbia wrote:They were discussing the wrong question.

I agree that your question is the heart of the Letang issue. Its my own fault; this is what happens when I let myself get sucked into a THG vortex of discursive dead ends, aimlessly ambling like a patient with advanced dementia to a constantly changing finish line. Add in whatever it is that "MalkinIsMyHomeboy" is "contributing", and I regret the past few hours.
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