Who are the Penguins you would keep?

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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Wed May 28, 2014 9:24 am

America wrote:Gimmie some of those drugs you're doing if you think Sid will get moved or request a trade


Not sure if you were referring to me, but I never implied he will do either of those things. I simply said if Sid was ever to be traded it would be because he openly requested it.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby Mad City Mike on Wed May 28, 2014 9:51 am

Scott wrote:Forget the contract talk. Let's just say the Pens could trim the fat of anyone and everyone they chose. Or a new GM is magical working trades and such with the current cba and contracts....

Who from the current Penguin roster would you consider must have?

My players in no certain order
Crosby
Malkin
Maatta
Bortuzzo where is his ceiling?
Despres see above!
Letang
Gibbons- need to see more time with him injury free..too much speed to dismiss
Sutter (earned another year with his play late and playoffs)

two wild cards
Fluery -what would people say about him if he played behind a collective clogging system i.e. Boston Bruins
Vitale- Hard for me to let anyone with so much speed go...I would keep him if guaranteed he was used right

Outside of these players and possible wildcards IMO they can swap any of the other Penguins with other NHL players and get similar results minimum


Here is my list:






Yes, I am being serious. Nobody is untouchable. Would it take an unbelievable deal to pry Crosby or Malkin away [edit: I forgot Maatta here, so add him too.]? Absolutely. So in reality, yes, I'd keep both. But nobody else. There is no reason to put a "hands-off" sign on anyone else. I am not saying they should have 18 new guys plus Sid and Geno. But I am saying I'd be happy with any combination of those 18 guys being sent elsewhere if the deal is right.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby Jim on Wed May 28, 2014 11:09 am

Mad City Mike wrote:Here is my list:






Yes, I am being serious. Nobody is untouchable. Would it take an unbelievable deal to pry Crosby or Malkin away [edit: I forgot Maatta here, so add him too.]? Absolutely. So in reality, yes, I'd keep both. But nobody else. There is no reason to put a "hands-off" sign on anyone else. I am not saying they should have 18 new guys plus Sid and Geno. But I am saying I'd be happy with any combination of those 18 guys being sent elsewhere if the deal is right.


I agree that no one is untouchable. There is always a deal that the Pens would be stupid not to accept.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed May 28, 2014 11:43 am

Let me try this in the spirit of the thread and add this. Who would I want on the team so that I would enjoy tuning in and feeling like I was watching MY Penguins.

F: Sid, Geno, Sutter, Bennett, Kuny, Dupuis, Vitale, Gibbons
D: Nisky, Maatta, Borts

Of the rooks: Pouliot, Sammuelsson, Harrington.

I'm not attached to anyone else so they all could be shopped.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby Mad City Mike on Wed May 28, 2014 12:00 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Let me try this in the spirit of the thread and add this. Who would I want on the team so that I would enjoy tuning in and feeling like I was watching MY Penguins.

F: Sid, Geno, Sutter, Bennett, Kuny, Dupuis, Vitale, Gibbons
D: Nisky, Maatta, Borts

Of the rooks: Pouliot, Sammuelsson, Harrington.

I'm not attached to anyone else so they all could be shopped.


Okay, I'll grant that you said, "Who would I want on the team so that I would enjoy tuning in and feeling like I was watching MY Penguins."

But Joe Vitale??? Joe Friggin' Vitale? The guy barely has AHL talent, let alone NHL ability. I want my team to win, and I don't think he contributes in the least to that.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 28, 2014 12:09 pm

mikey287 wrote:Weird how Bortuzzo is appearing on a few of these must keep lists...he went from "launch directly into the sun" to "well, hopefully we can get a 5th for him" but no further...he stinks...

Sutter, our best player in the playoffs, and another overlooked mule (like the guy whose spot he took) gets questionable reviews...

Inflammable means flammable...?!!? What a country...


I like Sutter, and he was definitely one of the top 3 players for me for the Pens in the playoffs. My question is, is he really a true shutdown center, as that is what I think the Pens really need from their third line. When we had Staal, he was a good defensive forward, had the size to be that defensive center, and more importantly, had good wingers for his line in Cooke and Kennedy. Staal's line was effective in a shutdown role because when they got the puck, they were very good at keeping possession, cycling, and keeping opposing forwards pinned in their zone.

Is Sutter capable of being that type of player? He seems like a good player defensively overall, but is he effective enough as a defensive, shutdown type role? Really hard to judge based off of his revolving linemates this year. I've also wondered if he has enough offensive skills that, with the right trades made, could he slide up to #2 center and move Malkin to wing with him.

For untouchables, Crosby, Malkin, and Maata are really my only 3. Everyone else is fair game.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby FLPensFan on Wed May 28, 2014 12:11 pm

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Let me try this in the spirit of the thread and add this. Who would I want on the team so that I would enjoy tuning in and feeling like I was watching MY Penguins.

F: Sid, Geno, Sutter, Bennett, Kuny, Dupuis, Vitale, Gibbons
D: Nisky, Maatta, Borts

Of the rooks: Pouliot, Sammuelsson, Harrington.

I'm not attached to anyone else so they all could be shopped.


If an upgrade can be found, I think Bennett's days are numbered. It's a shame because we have seen flashes and haven't got a full season to look at him, but I think he already has the injury prone tag. 3 wrist surgeries for a player his age is not good.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby largegarlic on Wed May 28, 2014 12:26 pm

I'd say keep Crosby and Malkin, and everyone else can be had for the right price.

Taken individually, I like most of the players on the roster, and most of the contracts for those players (probably the only LGP-consensus players to get rid of would be Scuderi and Adams, and even Scuderi might have defenders). However, the general dynamic of the team clearly isn't working, so some major pieces have to be changed.

I'd leave lots of flexibility about which pieces those are to see if other teams come up with deals that are too good to refuse. For example, I really like Paul Martin, but given his age and the number of solid d-man prospects, I'd be willing to be move him, if a team came in with a good offer.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby mikey287 on Wed May 28, 2014 1:10 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
mikey287 wrote:Weird how Bortuzzo is appearing on a few of these must keep lists...he went from "launch directly into the sun" to "well, hopefully we can get a 5th for him" but no further...he stinks...

Sutter, our best player in the playoffs, and another overlooked mule (like the guy whose spot he took) gets questionable reviews...

Inflammable means flammable...?!!? What a country...


I like Sutter, and he was definitely one of the top 3 players for me for the Pens in the playoffs. My question is, is he really a true shutdown center, as that is what I think the Pens really need from their third line. When we had Staal, he was a good defensive forward, had the size to be that defensive center, and more importantly, had good wingers for his line in Cooke and Kennedy. Staal's line was effective in a shutdown role because when they got the puck, they were very good at keeping possession, cycling, and keeping opposing forwards pinned in their zone.

Is Sutter capable of being that type of player? He seems like a good player defensively overall, but is he effective enough as a defensive, shutdown type role? Really hard to judge based off of his revolving linemates this year. I've also wondered if he has enough offensive skills that, with the right trades made, could he slide up to #2 center and move Malkin to wing with him.

For untouchables, Crosby, Malkin, and Maata are really my only 3. Everyone else is fair game.


Fair questions. I think Sutter definitely can be that type of player. And though he doesn't look like a lot of arms and legs like the spider monkey that Staal was, Sutter can't be too much smaller than him. The big added bonus that people don't realize how important it is, is the handedness. Sutter is a RHS centerman, natural advantage on right side defensive draws, natural advantage on the myriad of LHS centerman in the league and he's a better skater than Staal. He has terrific hockey sense and he has shown flashes of skill that surprised even me - and I've seen his development over the years. He can do some things with the puck that even Staal can't lay claim to I believe.

The biggest issue with Sutter and why people kvetch about him only being on pace for 22 points instead of 28 or whatever other nonsense, is that Sutter did not have Cooke or Kennedy. Two very good third line wingers in this league. And the way that Sutter is used, he's still the same mule that Staal was. Always in the defensive zone, probably often with a guy that can't move the puck out like Orpik or Scuderi...

I'm telling you, and everyone, this would be a really terrific - though under the radar - third line center for a contender if he had third line wingers as linemates that could work with him. His skating, his hockey sense, he has a good amount of skill to create on the rush, this is a good player. Like Staal, he's being overlooked here for obvious reasons, but this is a very good player. I don't think you want him as a #2 center, at least not on a winner, but I think this is a really high quality third line center here and I think he's capable of anything asked of him. It would be nice if we could support him a little better. We don't have anything like Matt Cooke's defensive play or Tyler Kennedy's audacious forechecking skills on this club playing with Sutter right now...
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby Beveridge on Wed May 28, 2014 1:17 pm

What about Sutter paired with a Dupuis and a Gibbons? Or was your ... meaning we have them they just aren't paired with him?
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby mikey287 on Wed May 28, 2014 1:24 pm

Sutter and Dupuis would make a terrific duo. Gibbons on that left side makes that a very intelligent line. All shooters, so you'll have to decide a good retrieval situation for them, because the puck movement won't be there...a lot of shots from outside the circles, but that's ok...they could do some good things, they're fast and smart, they can do anything...
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Wed May 28, 2014 1:34 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:Let me try this in the spirit of the thread and add this. Who would I want on the team so that I would enjoy tuning in and feeling like I was watching MY Penguins.

F: Sid, Geno, Sutter, Bennett, Kuny, Dupuis, Vitale, Gibbons
D: Nisky, Maatta, Borts

Of the rooks: Pouliot, Sammuelsson, Harrington.

I'm not attached to anyone else so they all could be shopped.


If an upgrade can be found, I think Bennett's days are numbered. It's a shame because we have seen flashes and haven't got a full season to look at him, but I think he already has the injury prone tag. 3 wrist surgeries for a player his age is not good.


I do not disagree with you at all but Bennett is just that one guy that I really want to see succeed for several reasons. I like that he is from Cali, has a great sense of humor for an NHLer, incredible puck handling skills, and is young and cheap. Something that the Pens are seriously lacking. I so want this team to become younger like the Kings. It only happens when your young guys pan out.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby RxBandit66 on Wed May 28, 2014 1:47 pm

Yes, it's true that guys like Bortuzzo are nothing special. But they supply something that the Pens certainly need: physicality. There will be plenty of skill on the blue line, even if Letang or Martin is traded, or Niskanen is not re-signed. They need a physical presence, especially with Brooks not coming back. SO, Bortuzzo brings an element that none of the current defensemen (including the prospects) have.

In the bottom 6, Jayson Megna and Joe Vitale are just not going to cut it. Gibbons may have a bit of a niche because he kills penalties, wins draws and is a shorthanded threat...but they will need to find physical players for the bottom 6. Physical players not named Tanner Glass. Sill could fill a role there, but they need a quality wing on both lines; preferably someone who has at least a little bit of scoring touch.

_________ - Sutter - Dupuis
Sill - Gibbons _________
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby GeoTank on Wed May 28, 2014 2:05 pm

RxBandit66 wrote:Yes, it's true that guys like Bortuzzo are nothing special. But they supply something that the Pens certainly need: physicality. There will be plenty of skill on the blue line, even if Letang or Martin is traded, or Niskanen is not re-signed. They need a physical presence, especially with Brooks not coming back. SO, Bortuzzo brings an element that none of the current defensemen (including the prospects) have.

In the bottom 6, Jayson Megna and Joe Vitale are just not going to cut it. Gibbons may have a bit of a niche because he kills penalties, wins draws and is a shorthanded threat...but they will need to find physical players for the bottom 6. Physical players not named Tanner Glass. Sill could fill a role there, but they need a quality wing on both lines; preferably someone who has at least a little bit of scoring touch.

_________ - Sutter - Dupuis
Sill - Gibbons _________



Tanner glass played good PK minutes and was 8th overall in hits in the entire league. We want physical forwards you can't dismiss his physicality without replacing it, not to mention the next highest penguin in hits was orpik who is gone this year too
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby Pitt87 on Wed May 28, 2014 2:47 pm

The only guys that are untouchable are Sid, Geno, and anyone that has 2 or fewer years with the club AND make under $2mil. Everyone else has underperformed their contract.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby slipshod on Wed May 28, 2014 3:48 pm

I would need to know who the coach is before I make my choices.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby shmenguin on Wed May 28, 2014 5:39 pm

And with Mikey's post, Sutter has now swung back into the overrated zone. I'm sure he'll be underrated again soon. It's a cycle.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby mikey287 on Wed May 28, 2014 5:58 pm

Sutter = Good third line center on a winning team = overrated.

You seem to lack a lot of appreciation for third line centers here for whatever reason.

Based on this from the other thread, maybe it makes some sense:

Scoring usually = excitement to most of us common folk


tl;dr version: After shmenguin's post, he's now underrated again. That's a quick and touchy cycle... :idea:
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby columbia on Wed May 28, 2014 6:03 pm

I don't wear jerseys, but if I did, I would get a Sutter one.

That doesn't really speak to anything, other than I'm happy that he will be around for awhile.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby mikey287 on Wed May 28, 2014 6:08 pm

I bought one thing from the store inside the arena on my recent trip to Pittsburgh: a Sutter jersey tee (as I don't buy RBK jerseys, only CCM/Koho for me, thanks)...
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby shmenguin on Wed May 28, 2014 6:08 pm

mikey287 wrote:Sutter = Good third line center on a winning team = overrated.

You seem to lack a lot of appreciation for third line centers here for whatever reason.

Based on this from the other thread, maybe it makes some sense:

Scoring usually = excitement to most of us common folk


tl;dr version: After shmenguin's post, he's now underrated again. That's a quick and touchy cycle... :idea:


Not really. I understand that a good 3rd line center can put up 30 to 40 points. But you talk about his faceoffs and skating in a gushy way. It doesn't compute. And he's not a horse. At least not that we've seen. I know it's largely because of his linemates, but he plays very insulated minutes. He may be a horse, but there isn't much evidence so far.

He was average to pretty good for a hundred plus games. And that doesn't count Carolina. He was legitimately good for a month. The jury is still out.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby rgj on Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:31 am

At this point I would venture to say that NO ONE is guaranteed a spot on next year's Pens. The Pens need an overhaul of who they are. If the current multi-millionaires cannot handle it.....GOODBYE. Someone else will pay their way, I'm sure.

The Pens need to get hungry players....one's that so dislike the opponent that they want to destroy them (on the ice, of course). The patsy days should be over. Ya wanna tug, push, grab, give cheap shots to the crotch? Fine. Meet elbows and miss a few teeth.

Losing 3 games after being up 3-1 has left a bitter taste in my mouth for these Pens. I question their desire, their heart, and yes, their abilities. Pretty on paper, but weak after January.

Clean house, Mario.
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Re: Who are the Penguins you would keep?

Postby Dickie Dunn on Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:07 am

The ones at the zoo.
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