Yohe - meh...Orpik news

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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Lt. Dish on Thu May 29, 2014 5:09 pm

I'm not 100% sold on the idea that Niskanen's a goner.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby MRandall25 on Thu May 29, 2014 5:10 pm

I don't really see that as saying "The younger guys were better than Martin and Letang".
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Lt. Dish on Thu May 29, 2014 5:13 pm

MRandall25 wrote:I don't really see that as saying "The younger guys were better than Martin and Letang".


I agree. Did they bust their butts? Yes. Were they better than Martin and Letang? That's not even a loose inference; that's adding to the script.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Thu May 29, 2014 5:16 pm

My wording was "not showing to be superior". Then you have Burkle and Lemieux:
Burkle: It’s funny, but we felt like had a lack of that earlier in the year, even though we were winning. But that group performed with even more grit and character.
Burkle: So we have ended up with an older team. When we do see our younger guys, we see a lot more energy, a lot more of what we’d like to see in our game. So maybe those guys at the Garden were playing a little bit ahead of their ability. They made up with their energy.

I'm just pointing out that Shero was fired for exactly the kind of thinking that wants Brooks and these elderly D-men to stay. I'm with the owners. We need to get rid of these aging guys.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby penny lane on Thu May 29, 2014 6:09 pm

What was the game count for the young guys~ 5-7? I base the wins on the forwards playing a dedicated defense first game.

Owners-GM-Coaches & the fans have to all buy in to the youth movement~ mistakes, losses, but hopefully growing in experience. Again, just because somebody is young, that doesn't equal good. Or, as good as the folks leaving.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Dan H on Fri May 30, 2014 12:44 am

meow wrote:I don't understand the dislike of Orpik around here. We aren't talking about Andrew, are we?

Defensemen who don't wildly outperform expectations almost always become LGP whipping boys?

Seriously, though, even though Orpik's play is underrated by many online critics, judging by last year it's hard to imagine his play next year will justify a $3.5M cap hit. He's not the player he was in 2010. We fans don't see whatever leadership and clubhouse presence he brings off the ice, but at this point it's reasonable for us to suspect the Pens need to shake up their player leadership. Whether that means moving on from Orpik or jettisoning other players and bringing Orpik some help, I don't know.

He's a free agent, so he can pick the best overall situation available to him. Assuming the Pens feel he's more part of a leadership solution than part of a problem, I'd be happy if the Pens brought him back on a $1.8M one-year contract with the understanding that he'll be used as a third pairing defenseman and clubhouse stalwart. The Pens have a number of young defensemen who should be cracking the NHL lineup soon, and it wouldn't hurt for them to be able to see how diligently Orpik trains. But I suspect some other teams will be willing to offer Mr. Orpik a significantly better contract and role than the Pens will.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Fri May 30, 2014 7:28 am

Bigger concern for me, and related to overall topic, is at some point we need these young dmen to play. To get fresh legs AND for cap purposes. I don't want to rehash my thoughts on loading up on this position.

But part of the reason our cap is screwed is we needed to sign Letang and Scuderi, and are talking about Nisky, Orpik when in reality at least two, probably three spots should be on entry or second contracts by now.

Sounds like a lot but without young forwards those smaller contracts for productive players need placed somewhere. Or by the time the cap opens up enough we are pushing the limits of our window.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri May 30, 2014 8:12 am

Time to move on. Martin-Letang-Orpik-Scuderi....three out of those four need to be gone. Nisky stays. All this talk of veteran leadership is overblown. They have Fleury, Sid, Geno, Kunitz, and Dupuis. Those guys are all veterans of many NHL seasons.

Martin (or Letang), Niskanen, Maatta, Bortuzzo, Despres, Doumolin, and Harrington would be the 7 I'd go with. The extra money is badly needed for forward depth. Youth and grit is badly needed. They can not count on Beau Bennett ever being healthy. They need a winger, and a good one, on lines one, three, and four...and that's assuming they keep Neal. The only way to do that is to let the old defensemen go.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby NashvilleCat on Fri May 30, 2014 9:38 am

How long do you have a strategy of drafting top-tier defensive talent before you let them play and jettison the ineffective old guys so you can acquire the forward talent you need to close the deal?
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Fri May 30, 2014 10:27 am

Yea the move is to trade Paul Martin. Sell high while he is coming off a good season and strong playoff.

You don't want to resign him to a contract that will see him turn 35 during the first year. And the team has too many needs to have him play it out, ala Niskanen this past season.
Trade him now while he is a legit top pairing guy and before he gets hurt again.

Could Martin pry Antoine Roussel and Alex Chiasson from Dallas? Martin is the guy that can move out salary and bring back multiple assets.

Scuderi can be moved. I think Samuelsson finds his way into the top 7. He was surprisingly good during his stint. Much better skater than I had remembered and he has really upgraded his battle and compete levels over the last two seasons. He looked sturdy and smart.
Despres/Letang
Maatta/Niskanen
Harrington or Samuelsson/Bortuzzo

I would have extended Engelland at the beginning of last season but it is probably to late to do that now and he will get more elsewhere. He will be difficult to replace, #5 was a great value.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Gaucho on Fri May 30, 2014 10:54 am

Are we throwing in the towel on next season already? Because that's the only way trading Martin makes sense.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Crankshaft on Fri May 30, 2014 10:59 am

Gaucho wrote:Are we throwing in the towel on next season already? Because that's the only way trading Martin makes sense.


Agreed. If anything, I'm all for extending Martin for 2 more years. His game translates better than an Orpik.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby npv708 on Fri May 30, 2014 11:09 am

Gaucho wrote:Are we throwing in the towel on next season already? Because that's the only way trading Martin makes sense.


Well, that will depend on who the coach is. If its Bylsma, yes, I believe the towel will be thrown in well in advance of the pre-season.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Digitalgypsy66 on Fri May 30, 2014 11:19 am

Gaucho wrote:Are we throwing in the towel on next season already? Because that's the only way trading Martin makes sense.

Yes, tank for McDavid. Three center model...booom! :lol: :face:
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Fri May 30, 2014 11:51 am

Crankshaft wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Are we throwing in the towel on next season already? Because that's the only way trading Martin makes sense.


Agreed. If anything, I'm all for extending Martin for 2 more years. His game translates better than an Orpik.


Why would Martin sign a two year extension?? He will want at least 4 years, probably with a salary increase.

No reason that dealing Martin means giving up on next season. That is ludicrous. They haven't won anything with Martin.

The right return would make them a more balanced team.

The reasons to trade Martin;
1) Legit top pairing guy coming off of a good season and with an affordable cap hit for next season will be bring multiple assets
2) Martin gets hurt and wears down. This is not going to improve with age. He is not a guy that you want to sign to a contract that will see him turn 35 during the first season.
3) Pens have too many needs to play out the year with an asset such as Martin, then lose him for nothing. That is a luxury they cannot afford.
4) Martin is more replaceable than Letang and #58 is at a low point as far as his value goes. You don't want to trade Letang and then lose Martin after next season.
5) D needs to get younger and bigger, replacements are ready and $$$ need to be shifted from blue line to bottom six.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri May 30, 2014 12:22 pm

I love Paul Martin's game, but he is 33 and has missed 131 regular season games since the start of the 2010 season due to injury. Not to mention, the Pens have had him for quite a few years now and have not won a playoff game beyond round 2 with him on the roster.

Granted, he is not the reason the team hasn't had playoff success, but as they say, if you can lose with him, you can lose without him. Same goes for Letang, although he is quite a bit younger and it may not be wise to sell when he is at his lowest value.

I cannot stress enough that this team needs grit, youth, and forward depth. Simon Despres is a lot closer to being a legit NHL defender than Jayson Megna is to being an NHL winger. Defensemen need to be dealt for forwards, plain and simple.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Pitt87 on Fri May 30, 2014 3:08 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
shmenguin wrote:1 year, 3 million for orpik. i think we still need a placeholder.


The last thing we need at the blue line is a placeholder, and I think its a not particularly respectful to a guy that's given you his best years to give him a one-year deal at 33. Could be his last shot at a 3-5 year deal.

Happy trails...


we're losing niskanen, and i'd prefer we ditch scuderi. in this scenario, i think we need more of a veteran presence in next year's D lineup.


I agree with the principle, but if the first thing a new GM (assuming our next GM has not held that post previously) does is stick a 1 year deal in front of a veteran that has been with your organization for 10 years, he'll have a tough time with the next deal he needs to make with a veteran player. Just not a particularly honorable thing to do.

If Scuds had one year left I'd agree with dumping him, but it would be difficult to both pay him and fill a spot in the lineup for the next 2 years.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby dman66 on Fri May 30, 2014 7:52 pm

Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
Crankshaft wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Are we throwing in the towel on next season already? Because that's the only way trading Martin makes sense.


Agreed. If anything, I'm all for extending Martin for 2 more years. His game translates better than an Orpik.


Why would Martin sign a two year extension?? He will want at least 4 years, probably with a salary increase.

No reason that dealing Martin means giving up on next season. That is ludicrous. They haven't won anything with Martin.

The right return would make them a more balanced team.

The reasons to trade Martin;
1) Legit top pairing guy coming off of a good season and with an affordable cap hit for next season will be bring multiple assets
2) Martin gets hurt and wears down. This is not going to improve with age. He is not a guy that you want to sign to a contract that will see him turn 35 during the first season.
3) Pens have too many needs to play out the year with an asset such as Martin, then lose him for nothing. That is a luxury they cannot afford.
4) Martin is more replaceable than Letang and #58 is at a low point as far as his value goes. You don't want to trade Letang and then lose Martin after next season.
5) D needs to get younger and bigger, replacements are ready and $$$ need to be shifted from blue line to bottom six.


I wouldn't be against trading Martin. Plus, the $5M in cap space could be used towards signing Niskanen. If it is keeping either Martin or Niskanen, I think it's an easy decision. Martin has a limited NTC though, so that would limit any potential suitors. Orpik at the right price wouldn't be bad if Scuderi is gone, especially with Maatta's shoulder injury and subsequent comeback.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby RxBandit66 on Fri May 30, 2014 8:51 pm

I think they will find a taker for Scuderi, if they are willing to pay part of his salary, especially towards the end of the contract. There will be a few teams that will likely be below the cap floor.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Desiato on Sat May 31, 2014 12:55 am

Martin is a special player. There's no way I'd trade him. Plus I think his style of play and intelligence make him a good candidate to age well.

In addition to his talents, the Pens young defense next season will need good role models like him.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby Nizzy on Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:24 pm

Before you ask the question of "Do we want to keep Orpik" you must ask, "What role will he be used for?"

The Martin-Orpik "top pairing" is dead. It shouldn't even of happened for the Olympics, and Orpik missed an assignment for the goal vs Canada.

So if you want Orpik to be the bottom pairing guy with Bortuzzo, or Maatta? Sign me up for 1-2 years @ under 3 million. If you want him in the top 4? Thanks for your time with the Pens, Brooks!
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby thehockeyguru on Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:43 pm

Nizzy wrote:Before you ask the question of "Do we want to keep Orpik" you must ask, "What role will he be used for?"

The Martin-Orpik "top pairing" is dead. It shouldn't even of happened for the Olympics, and Orpik missed an assignment for the goal vs Canada.

So if you want Orpik to be the bottom pairing guy with Bortuzzo, or Maatta? Sign me up for 1-2 years @ under 3 million. If you want him in the top 4? Thanks for your time with the Pens, Brooks!


I agree with this. I would like to have Orpik back in a bottom 6 role at around 2.5M per. Trade Scuderi or buy him out.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby mig991 on Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:56 am

I think Orpik is a huge presence in the locker room, and not always for the good of the team.

He needs to go so some new, hopefully Crosby, voices/leaders can emerge.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby penny lane on Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:36 am

^ I guess if folks can write that james neal has a coke habit; you can certainly believe that orpik is a bad influence in the room.
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Re: Yohe - meh...Orpik news

Postby topshelf66 on Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:44 am

I think it is fair that when we hear that the locker room was bad and witnessed what we did this playoff that keeping someone for their leadership should be questioned. Every level of leadership in that room failed. Coaches, Captain, Alternates, other veterans. At this point I would only keep someone based completely upon their performance. For this group any consideration of the intangible "leader in the locker room" would only drive down their price in my opinion.

Likely not a coincidence that there was a lot of discord on team USA as well.
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