James Neal to the Preds

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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Crankshaft on Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:44 am

Jim wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Pitts wrote:For those still him-hawing about this trade, see this: http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/fanta ... sy-impact/

Patric Hornqvist, Pittsburgh Penguins
The highest-impact fantasy move in the last year, let alone the last week. Hornqvist just went from being a steady 50-point player to a possible 70-point player or more. In my rankings this month he shot up 96 spots thanks to his trade, as he will be earmarked for the Evgeni Malkin line.


James Neal, Nashville Predators
From Malkin’s linemate to Colin Wilson’s. That’s quite the drop. Just as Hornqvist shot up 96 spots in my fantasy rankings, Neal dropped 40. He’ll help Wilson and whoever else is on the line (Craig Smith?). But his own point total will drop. Think 60 or 65 points now.


That's exactly what I was thinking as well.


if these estimates are correct, the him-hawing is justified. doesn't really matter what neal does with nashville. this projects hornqvist as doing worse than neal did here.


Do you watch a lot of hockey, or just play NHL14? In NHL14 point totals matter the most. In real life there are MANY other things that need to be considered.


Am I the only one who finds it funny that you're making a comment re: NHL 2014 but you're defending your stance with quotes from a Fantasy Hockey columnist? :lol:
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:45 am

According to some posters on LGP, the only thing that matters when measuring how good a player is is how many points he has.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:04 am

Crankshaft wrote:
Jim wrote:
shmenguin wrote:
Pitts wrote:For those still him-hawing about this trade, see this: http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/fanta ... sy-impact/

Patric Hornqvist, Pittsburgh Penguins
The highest-impact fantasy move in the last year, let alone the last week. Hornqvist just went from being a steady 50-point player to a possible 70-point player or more. In my rankings this month he shot up 96 spots thanks to his trade, as he will be earmarked for the Evgeni Malkin line.


James Neal, Nashville Predators
From Malkin’s linemate to Colin Wilson’s. That’s quite the drop. Just as Hornqvist shot up 96 spots in my fantasy rankings, Neal dropped 40. He’ll help Wilson and whoever else is on the line (Craig Smith?). But his own point total will drop. Think 60 or 65 points now.


That's exactly what I was thinking as well.


if these estimates are correct, the him-hawing is justified. doesn't really matter what neal does with nashville. this projects hornqvist as doing worse than neal did here.


Do you watch a lot of hockey, or just play NHL14? In NHL14 point totals matter the most. In real life there are MANY other things that need to be considered.


Am I the only one who finds it funny that you're making a comment re: NHL 2014 but you're defending your stance with quotes from a Fantasy Hockey columnist? :lol:


I didn't use any quotes to defend my stance. I quoted the post that I was responding to, but that is not the same thing. I countered a comment that stated that Hornqvist will do worse than Neal, which the way the comment was presented I took to mean overall, not just in point total, as I do not think that anyone has suggested that Hornqvist will outscore Neal's Pittsburgh output, but there are a lot of comments on Hornqvist outplaying Neal.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:06 am

MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:According to some posters on LGP, the only thing that matters when measuring how good a player is is how many points he has.


Point production should definitely be taken into consideration, but it is not everything and should not be the only consideration when comparing two players.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:21 am

Not to mention, there was another player in the deal.
If that improves our bottom 6 play, that has to be taken into consideration as well.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:57 am

Jim wrote:
MalkinIsMyHomeboy wrote:According to some posters on LGP, the only thing that matters when measuring how good a player is is how many points he has.


Point production should definitely be taken into consideration, but it is not everything and should not be the only consideration when comparing two players.


Exactly my point. Like, one of my biggest problems with Neal was his racka disciprine (lack of discipline). Neal has .84 PIM in the regular season and >1 in the playoffs while Horny is at .47 and .5 respectively. Pretty much half the penalties.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:09 pm

DropEmJayBird wrote:Not to mention, there was another player in the deal.
If that improves our bottom 6 play, that has to be taken into consideration as well.


Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

Acquiring Spaling and the probable obligation to overpay him through arbitration was not gaining an asset in this trade.

$2m-ish in Cap space > Nick Spaling

The money could have been better spent acquiring a UFA that actually would address a team need (size, grit, tenacity), rather than a soft, under-skilled guy that failed to produce with second line minutes and is now looking to get paid.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Pitts on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:10 pm

shmenguin wrote:
Pitts wrote:For those still him-hawing about this trade, see this: http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/fanta ... sy-impact/
...


if these estimates are correct, the him-hawing is justified. doesn't really matter what neal does with nashville. this projects hornqvist as doing worse than neal did here.

Well, it says 70 points "or more". We don't know what that more is.

Neal had 81 points in 2012, 61 points last year. Tell me, how is 70 points any worse?

In Dallas, on a team similar to what Nashville will offer him, Neal topped out at 55 points.

My argument isn't about who is "better", but just that Neal and Hornqvist are two very similar players points-wise, hence worthy of being traded for each other. Both Neal and Hornqvist will be made better by Evgeni Malkin.

For all we know, Hornqvist could become a 100 point player with the Pens. Saying this is a bad trade is just wrong.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Pitts on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:13 pm

Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... now looking to get paid.

You just love repeating yourself day in and day out, don't you? I think we all know your stance on that scrub Spaling by now.
Last edited by Pitts on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:13 pm

Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:Not to mention, there was another player in the deal.
If that improves our bottom 6 play, that has to be taken into consideration as well.


Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

Acquiring Spaling and the probable obligation to overpay him through arbitration was not gaining an asset in this trade.

$2m-ish in Cap space > Nick Spaling

The money could have been better spent acquiring a UFA that actually would address a team need (size, grit, tenacity), rather than a soft, under-skilled guy that failed to produce with second line minutes and is now looking to get paid.


Neither Nashville nor the Pens were obligated to pay him anything. It was also not a cap dump for Nashville.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:28 pm

Jim wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:Not to mention, there was another player in the deal.
If that improves our bottom 6 play, that has to be taken into consideration as well.


Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

Acquiring Spaling and the probable obligation to overpay him through arbitration was not gaining an asset in this trade.

$2m-ish in Cap space > Nick Spaling

The money could have been better spent acquiring a UFA that actually would address a team need (size, grit, tenacity), rather than a soft, under-skilled guy that failed to produce with second line minutes and is now looking to get paid.


Neither Nashville nor the Pens were obligated to pay him anything. It was also not a cap dump for Nashville.


Nashville had already qualified him and it had been reported he was seeking $2.5m. Poile wanted no part of paying that, wisely.

Once the Pens acquired him, they inherited as a qualified RFA with arbitration rights, which he is now exercising.

Do you see him as good value at $2m or north of that number???

Regardless, this wasn't an "asset" you want back when dealing an elite goal scorer in his prime. A draft pick and cap space would have been more valuable.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Guinness on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:32 pm

Didn't Ottawa get basically a bucket of crap for Spezza?
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:34 pm

Pitts wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... now looking to get paid.

You just love repeating yourself day in and day out, don't you? I think we all know your stance on that scrub Spaling by now.


I think Chirpin is required by law to write "cap space > Spalding" in every post.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:44 pm

Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
Jim wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:Not to mention, there was another player in the deal.
If that improves our bottom 6 play, that has to be taken into consideration as well.


Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

Acquiring Spaling and the probable obligation to overpay him through arbitration was not gaining an asset in this trade.

$2m-ish in Cap space > Nick Spaling

The money could have been better spent acquiring a UFA that actually would address a team need (size, grit, tenacity), rather than a soft, under-skilled guy that failed to produce with second line minutes and is now looking to get paid.


Neither Nashville nor the Pens were obligated to pay him anything. It was also not a cap dump for Nashville.


Nashville had already qualified him and it had been reported he was seeking $2.5m. Poile wanted no part of paying that, wisely.

Once the Pens acquired him, they inherited as a qualified RFA with arbitration rights, which he is now exercising.

Do you see him as good value at $2m or north of that number???

Regardless, this wasn't an "asset" you want back when dealing an elite goal scorer in his prime. A draft pick and cap space would have been more valuable.


Was Nashville forced to qualify him? No.

Were the Pens forced to take a qualified guy? No. (Why would Nashville qualify a guy and then force him into a trade? Apparently the Pens want him, not obligated, "want".)

I do not have an opinion on his play, and therefore I can not comment on his specific value. However, a mid scoring, high PK time guy... $2M does not seem to be a bad market price.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:51 pm

Pitts wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... now looking to get paid.

You just love repeating yourself day in and day out, don't you? I think we all know your stance on that scrub Spaling by now.


He would not need to repeat himself if people actually took the time to read what he has posted and understand that Spaling might actually be a bad deal for the pens.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby columbia on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:52 pm

The Penguins qualified Spaling, not Nashville.
What is this voodoo going on?
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:52 pm

Jim wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
Jim wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:Not to mention, there was another player in the deal.
If that improves our bottom 6 play, that has to be taken into consideration as well.


Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

Acquiring Spaling and the probable obligation to overpay him through arbitration was not gaining an asset in this trade.

$2m-ish in Cap space > Nick Spaling

The money could have been better spent acquiring a UFA that actually would address a team need (size, grit, tenacity), rather than a soft, under-skilled guy that failed to produce with second line minutes and is now looking to get paid.


Neither Nashville nor the Pens were obligated to pay him anything. It was also not a cap dump for Nashville.


Nashville had already qualified him and it had been reported he was seeking $2.5m. Poile wanted no part of paying that, wisely.

Once the Pens acquired him, they inherited as a qualified RFA with arbitration rights, which he is now exercising.

Do you see him as good value at $2m or north of that number???

Regardless, this wasn't an "asset" you want back when dealing an elite goal scorer in his prime. A draft pick and cap space would have been more valuable.


Was Nashville forced to qualify him? No.

Were the Pens forced to take a qualified guy? No. (Why would Nashville qualify a guy and then force him into a trade? Apparently the Pens want him, not obligated, "want".)

I do not have an opinion on his play, and therefore I can not comment on his specific value. However, a mid scoring, high PK time guy... $2M does not seem to be a bad market price.


How do you feel about Max Talbot?
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:52 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... now looking to get paid.

You just love repeating yourself day in and day out, don't you? I think we all know your stance on that scrub Spaling by now.


He would not need to repeat himself if people actually took the time to read what he has posted and understand that Spaling might actually be a bad deal for the pens.


Everybody and anybody for any price MIGHT be a bad deal for the Pens... or MIGHT be the best deal ever... He is not referring to "might be" at all.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:58 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:How do you feel about Max Talbot?


He is alright. Feisty, mid- points, solid PK. I liked Max when he was here, but he did take a little too many penalties for his ice time... not too much, but I would like to have seen a little less, especially for a PK guy.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:03 pm

The Preds made Spaling a qualifying offer...which can't be accepted until July 1. He was then traded to the Pens. He couldn't accept the Preds qualifying offer. The Pens then extended him a qualifying offer.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong. The Pens qualified Spaling, the contract offered by the Preds couldn't be signed and was void once he was no longer a Pred.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby darkstar57 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:04 pm

Jim wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:How do you feel about Max Talbot?


He is alright. Feisty, mid- points, solid PK. I liked Max when he was here, but he did take a little too many penalties for his ice time... not too much, but I would like to have seen a little less, especially for a PK guy.


Not to mention had a nac for scoring some big time goals in the playoffs.

I pretty much up some up the chripin grinder hate as he is the biggest james neal fan on the planet and no matter what we got in the deal (could have been the second coming of gretzky) and he would hate the players associated coming back to us..

I also think LemieuxReturns is a second account for chirpin grinder because he tends to pop up when chirpin grinder posts something
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:05 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:The Preds made Spaling a qualifying offer...which can't be accepted until July 1. He was then traded to the Pens. He couldn't accept the Preds qualifying offer. The Pens then extended him a qualifying offer.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong. The Pens qualified Spaling, the contract offered by the Preds couldn't be signed and was void once he was no longer a Pred.


Shortly after the trade I asked if a qualifying offer transferred with a trade or it it "went away" or was "reset" or what have you. I do not think that I got an answer.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby mikey287 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:10 pm

It carries.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:12 pm

I just spent a lot of time looking at the CBA, does it explicitly state that or is that just how it works? Seems strange that a contract offer would carry.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Pitts on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:13 pm

Guinness wrote:Didn't Ottawa get basically a bucket of crap for Spezza?

I wouldn't call Chaisson a bucket of crap.
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