James Neal to the Preds

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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Pitts on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:14 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... now looking to get paid.

You just love repeating yourself day in and day out, don't you? I think we all know your stance on that scrub Spaling by now.


He would not need to repeat himself if people actually took the time to read what he has posted and understand that Spaling might actually be a bad deal for the pens.

Or, he might not.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby GSdrums87 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:14 pm

Guys, did you know Spaling sucks? I mean I've barely even seen him in Nashville and has yet to suit up as a Pen. But man, he sucks.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:14 pm

Pitts wrote:
Guinness wrote:Didn't Ottawa get basically a bucket of crap for Spezza?

I wouldn't call Chaisson a bucket of crap.

Yeah, reserve that description for James Neal.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby columbia on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:15 pm

mikey287 wrote:It carries.


Although there was no offer to carry over, in Spaling's case....
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Pitts on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:18 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Guinness wrote:Didn't Ottawa get basically a bucket of crap for Spezza?

I wouldn't call Chaisson a bucket of crap.

Yeah, reserve that description for James Neal.

:thumb: Not me though, I liked James Neal, but I'm okay with the trade.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby tfrizz on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:30 pm

Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
Jim wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:Not to mention, there was another player in the deal.
If that improves our bottom 6 play, that has to be taken into consideration as well.


Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

Acquiring Spaling and the probable obligation to overpay him through arbitration was not gaining an asset in this trade.

$2m-ish in Cap space > Nick Spaling

The money could have been better spent acquiring a UFA that actually would address a team need (size, grit, tenacity), rather than a soft, under-skilled guy that failed to produce with second line minutes and is now looking to get paid.


Neither Nashville nor the Pens were obligated to pay him anything. It was also not a cap dump for Nashville.


Nashville had already qualified him and it had been reported he was seeking $2.5m. Poile wanted no part of paying that, wisely.

Once the Pens acquired him, they inherited as a qualified RFA with arbitration rights, which he is now exercising.

Do you see him as good value at $2m or north of that number???

Regardless, this wasn't an "asset" you want back when dealing an elite goal scorer in his prime. A draft pick and cap space would have been more valuable.


There are worse things in life than paying $2M or $2.5M... like paying $4M for a rather similar player in Benoit Pouliot.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby mikey287 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:31 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I just spent a lot of time looking at the CBA, does it explicitly state that or is that just how it works? Seems strange that a contract offer would carry.


That's just how it works, is my understanding. Because it's not so much the contract offer itself (because I get your point on that, and it makes sense) but because the bonafide offer causes a status change for the player. When the bonafide qualifying offer is made, the player's status changes to that of a Group II restricted free agent.

Obviously, this is discussed when making a trade. There'd be no surprises, as it were, in these cases. If the Pens didn't want to qualify Nick Spaling, they just wouldn't have acquired him (and QO'd him). It's not like Nashville unloaded a contract, Spaling hasn't been paid in 10 weeks...

As columbia has pointed out a couple times and it's certainly the impression I was under, that Nashville had not yet extended a QO to him. But that's not unusual, as many teams wait until the deadline. Which I believe was the Monday following the Draft at 5 pm EDT. Many teams wait until that last day (in fact, it nearly burned Nashville once, and they nearly lost Spaling and others three years ago) because of organizational evaluations and trade discussions...so Nashville not QO'ing well in advance of the deadline should not be used as ammunition for either side.

The Pens were under no obligation to take him on, QO him and understood the "risks" involved with his arbitration status. None of which are particularly concerning for anybody. Again, I don't think this will make it all the way to arbitration, but even if it does, I'm not too worried about the award. It should be fairly modest...
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Pitts on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:32 pm

tfrizz --- CAP SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:37 pm

mikey287 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I just spent a lot of time looking at the CBA, does it explicitly state that or is that just how it works? Seems strange that a contract offer would carry.


That's just how it works, is my understanding. Because it's not so much the contract offer itself (because I get your point on that, and it makes sense) but because the bonafide offer causes a status change for the player. When the bonafide qualifying offer is made, the player's status changes to that of a Group II restricted free agent.

Obviously, this is discussed when making a trade. There'd be no surprises, as it were, in these cases. If the Pens didn't want to qualify Nick Spaling, they just wouldn't have acquired him (and QO'd him). It's not like Nashville unloaded a contract, Spaling hasn't been paid in 10 weeks...

As columbia has pointed out a couple times and it's certainly the impression I was under, that Nashville had not yet extended a QO to him. But that's not unusual, as many teams wait until the deadline. Which I believe was the Monday following the Draft at 5 pm EDT. Many teams wait until that last day (in fact, it nearly burned Nashville once, and they nearly lost Spaling and others three years ago) because of organizational evaluations and trade discussions...so Nashville not QO'ing well in advance of the deadline should not be used as ammunition for either side.

The Pens were under no obligation to take him on, QO him and understood the "risks" involved with his arbitration status. None of which are particularly concerning for anybody. Again, I don't think this will make it all the way to arbitration, but even if it does, I'm not too worried about the award. It should be fairly modest...


Yeah, I have no knowledge of Spaling so I don't really care about this case, its just something i'm trying to learn. I had a really good handle on a lot of intricacies of the last CBA and think I understand most of the changes...its fun when something comes up I don't understand. I was thrown when I saw that the QO couldn't be accepted until July 1, but I guess that just goes back to it being a new contract, doesn't relate to the specific QO scenario.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby BleuLineLady on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:47 pm

Some people who hate this trade are glossing over the #1 reason why Neal was traded in my opinion. I have always liked Neal and was so excited when they traded for him. I will root for him in Nashville. But, let's be honest about his game. He's got a great shot, a sniper, one of the best in the game. Yes, this a rare skill to have...but what else can you honestly say about his game that was a net positive for the team. Here are some questions:

-Was Neal a 2 way player? Nope, not really. He's a plus player, but far from a Selke finalist.

-Was he good along the boards? For his size, he could have been much better. It was a disappointing part of his game.

-Was he a big hitter? Outside of the occasional cheap shot, again no, not really.

-Was he good around the net to score goals? Nope, most of his goals were scored at the perimeter. He was adequate around the net, but that wasn't his game.


All of these questions lead me to this...the way Neal plays isnt very conducive to the playoffs. For a team that already was more finesse than grit to begin with, one of their top scorers was primarily a perimeter player during a time of the year when perimeter play more often than not doesnt win you playoff games. The defenses are better, more shot blocking occurs, and the goalies are better. Shooting from the outside really only works when there is traffic in front of the net and who exactly on that line was playing in front of the net? He wasnt gritty, didnt win alot of battles along the wall and didnt score the garbage goals that win playoff games. If they wanted to change the composition of the team a bit and make it a playoff ready squad, then the reasons above are the reasons why he is gone. I dont think its because of his discipline or his supposed bad attitude, the latter I dont even really believe, but it was just that his game isnt geared for what this team needs going forward to be successful.

I'm actually quite excited about Hornqvist and what he brings. He's not a sniper, but he's good around the net, scores garbage goals. He's a consistent 20-25 goal scorer with the potential for more I think playing on a line with Crosby or Malkin.
Last edited by BleuLineLady on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: James Neal to the Preds

Postby Chirpin' Grinder on Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:48 pm

Pitts wrote:
Chirpin' Grinder wrote:Yes, it must be taken into consideration that the Pens took back what was essentially a cap dump in Spaling.

... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... JIBBERISH ... now looking to get paid.

You just love repeating yourself day in and day out, don't you? I think we all know your stance on that scrub Spaling by now.


Spaling is not necessarily a scrub and that wasn't my point. He just adds no value to this deal and may actually be a negative, depending on his contract value. Getting back a one year RFA with whom you have to arbitrate and who doesn't address a specific need makes little sense in the context of this deal and Rutherford's stated goals.

Acquiring Spaling did not address any of the issues that Rutherford had stated were a problem and for the money they will pay him, better value was and is available on the UFA market. Since gaining cap space was allegedly a benefit of the trade, mentioned specifically by Rutherford himself and many of the proponents here on the board, Spaling's contract status seems slightly more relevant than fantasy projections when analyzing the deal.
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