Up to Date Lineup

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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:38 pm

Steve Dave wrote:Marleau Crosby Hornqvist
Kunitz Malkin Bennett
Dupuis Spaling Downie
Carter Goc Comeau
Sill

Despres Letang
Maatta Erhoff
Scuderi Bortuzzo
Dumoulin Samuelsson

I am 100% in the "No Marleau" boat. I like him as a player, but with Kunitz and Dupuis already in the top 9, adding another 34 year old winger is the last thing I want to see the Penguins do. I don't see Paul Martin being moved before the trade deadline. I see Dumoulin, Harrington, and Pouliot getting auditions before the deadline. If the Pens feel that enough of these guys can step up, then they move him at the deadline. If the young d can't step up enough this year, I think they'll keep Martin for the season, and lose him for nothing at season's end.

Even though it is only TIOPS, and I hate that several other outlets are riding his "rumor," if Sutter wants too much, or is dead set on a one year deal (which will make him UFA at season's end), I would be on board with trading him to Edmonton for David Perron. EDM is definitely a bit weak at center, and Perron has been rumored to be on the move a few times. Spaling takes over 3rd line C spot.....

Kunitz-Crosby-Kapanen/Bennett
Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist
Downie-Spaling-Dupuis
Comeau-Goc-Payerl
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby lemieuxReturns on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:56 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:Marleau Crosby Hornqvist
Kunitz Malkin Bennett
Dupuis Spaling Downie
Carter Goc Comeau
Sill

Despres Letang
Maatta Erhoff
Scuderi Bortuzzo
Dumoulin Samuelsson

I am 100% in the "No Marleau" boat. I like him as a player, but with Kunitz and Dupuis already in the top 9, adding another 34 year old winger is the last thing I want to see the Penguins do. I don't see Paul Martin being moved before the trade deadline. I see Dumoulin, Harrington, and Pouliot getting auditions before the deadline. If the Pens feel that enough of these guys can step up, then they move him at the deadline. If the young d can't step up enough this year, I think they'll keep Martin for the season, and lose him for nothing at season's end.

Even though it is only TIOPS, and I hate that several other outlets are riding his "rumor," if Sutter wants too much, or is dead set on a one year deal (which will make him UFA at season's end), I would be on board with trading him to Edmonton for David Perron. EDM is definitely a bit weak at center, and Perron has been rumored to be on the move a few times. Spaling takes over 3rd line C spot.....

Kunitz-Crosby-Kapanen/Bennett
Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist
Downie-Spaling-Dupuis
Comeau-Goc-Payerl



Permission to come aboard captain?
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby DelPen on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:18 pm

Moving Sutter for Perron leaves $2.6 million in cap space with 2 spots to fill assuming we carry 13 F and 7 D. If Spaling gets more than $2 million we will have severe cap issues making a trade like this.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:48 pm

DelPen wrote:Moving Sutter for Perron leaves $2.6 million in cap space with 2 spots to fill assuming we carry 13 F and 7 D. If Spaling gets more than $2 million we will have severe cap issues making a trade like this.

Very doubtful the trade was ever even a possibility, and even more so now that more leaks are coming out that the two sides (Sutter and Pens) are close to reaching a deal. But, the cap issue was there with or without Sutter, as I have heard 3.5-3.6M as one figure for Sutter, and DK mentioning 4M for Sutter today in his question session. Perron makes 3.875M, so lets just assume for a second that Sutter gets that amount for 3-4 years from the Pens. I don't see Spaling getting more than 2M. That is my educated guess ( I was right on Depres making 1M or less too, as well as Goc making less than 1.7M he made last season). Assuming I am correct, Spaling at 2M and Sutter at 3.875M leaves 555K left. But that is before Maata's almost 900K go to LTIR, and possibly Bennett's 900K as well. If they both go, and for cap purposes, I think it would be wise for them to put Bennett on LTIR to start the season and fully heal.....that would give them about 2.3M left in cap to bring in a 11th (replace Bennett) and 12th forward (hopefully Adams as 13F) and a 7th defenseman.

Payerl @626K, Kapanen @925K, and Dumoulin @830K would put them over the cap and LTIR allowance by about 33K.....which is why, unless he is just phenomenal in camp, I think Zatkoff gets the nod as backup over Greiss. The 400K difference in salary is a big deal for a back on this team.

Until Kapanen shows otherwise in camp, I am under the impression he makes the team. While he needs to bulk up to handle the physical nature of the NHL, he isn't a "physcial player"....he is a skill player, and if he shows he has the skills to keep up with Crosby or Malkin in camp and make an impact, the Penguins are in a much better position to have Kapanen in the top 6 and Dupuis on the 3rd line.....knowing that Dupuis can jump up to top 6 if needed due to injury or poor play, versus automatically having to put Dupuis in top 6 to start the season, and then having to put a 3rd/4th liner in the top 6 because we have nobody with top 6 ability in the minors.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby Crankshaft on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:25 pm

No way do they sign Greiss and not have him on the team.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby columbia on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:27 pm

Yeah....Jagoff is headed for the AHL.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:45 pm

Crankshaft wrote:No way do they sign Greiss and not have him on the team.

And it makes sense to sign a 3rd goalie when, even though it was the previous regime, you just signed your backup goalie to a 2-year NHL only deal worth 600K a season??? The Penguins are going to be up against the cap, almost certainly less than 1M in available space. If Greiss and Zatkoff are equal in camp, and they need space to start the season, they save 400K by having Zatkoff as the backup over Greiss. I think they brought in Greiss to push Fleury a bit, and the new regime may not be sold on Zatkoff as the backup. That said, one is almost half the cost of the other, and they may need to play the cap game at the start of the season.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby André on Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:09 am

Maata and Bennett are both still injuried? That sucks.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:52 am

André wrote:Maata and Bennett are both still injuried? That sucks.

Maata is probably a 95% lock to start on LTIR. I've seen a few reports that he could be ready early in the season, but I just don't see how. Shoulder injury like his (and Pouliot has same injury) is 4-6 months of recovery, sometimes longer. Also a tough injury on a defenseman. He had his surgery May 22nd. 4 months would be September, 6 months would be November. I really don't expect him back until late December or early January. Anything sooner is a bonus. http://www.thescore.com/news/506940

Bennett's wrist injury has a 4 month recovery time. He had his surgery the same day as Maata, May 22nd. 4 months would put him right in the middle of training camp. With this being his 3rd wrist injury, I for one would not be wanting to rush him back. Give him more time to build up strength and actually be able to shoot the puck properly. I think the Pens would be smart to start him on LTIR, assuming Kapanen is available to take his spot, or Downie moves up short term in the top 6. http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=720316
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby Beveridge on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:20 am

I think they'll both see time in WBS once they are back just to get the rust off.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:40 am

FLPensFan wrote:
André wrote:Maata and Bennett are both still injuried? That sucks.

Maata is probably a 95% lock to start on LTIR. I've seen a few reports that he could be ready early in the season, but I just don't see how. Shoulder injury like his (and Pouliot has same injury) is 4-6 months of recovery, sometimes longer. Also a tough injury on a defenseman. He had his surgery May 22nd. 4 months would be September, 6 months would be November. I really don't expect him back until late December or early January. Anything sooner is a bonus. http://www.thescore.com/news/506940

Bennett's wrist injury has a 4 month recovery time. He had his surgery the same day as Maata, May 22nd. 4 months would put him right in the middle of training camp. With this being his 3rd wrist injury, I for one would not be wanting to rush him back. Give him more time to build up strength and actually be able to shoot the puck properly. I think the Pens would be smart to start him on LTIR, assuming Kapanen is available to take his spot, or Downie moves up short term in the top 6. http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=720316


I am not 100% sure what the LTIR rules are, but if Bennett is "medically" cleared in September I would not think that he could go on LTIR. I would think that he would be in a "healthy scratch" kind of situation. If he is not good to go in October then they need to strongly consider moving on and moving him. The only track record that he will have at that point is being fragile and taking longer than usual to heal. NOT a good combination.

For Maatta, if the expected time is 4-6 months, I would think 8 is a bit long unless there are complications. If he is not playing by Thanksgiving then there are problems.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:00 am

Jim wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
André wrote:Maata and Bennett are both still injuried? That sucks.

Maata is probably a 95% lock to start on LTIR. I've seen a few reports that he could be ready early in the season, but I just don't see how. Shoulder injury like his (and Pouliot has same injury) is 4-6 months of recovery, sometimes longer. Also a tough injury on a defenseman. He had his surgery May 22nd. 4 months would be September, 6 months would be November. I really don't expect him back until late December or early January. Anything sooner is a bonus. http://www.thescore.com/news/506940

Bennett's wrist injury has a 4 month recovery time. He had his surgery the same day as Maata, May 22nd. 4 months would put him right in the middle of training camp. With this being his 3rd wrist injury, I for one would not be wanting to rush him back. Give him more time to build up strength and actually be able to shoot the puck properly. I think the Pens would be smart to start him on LTIR, assuming Kapanen is available to take his spot, or Downie moves up short term in the top 6. http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=720316


I am not 100% sure what the LTIR rules are, but if Bennett is "medically" cleared in September I would not think that he could go on LTIR. I would think that he would be in a "healthy scratch" kind of situation. If he is not good to go in October then they need to strongly consider moving on and moving him. The only track record that he will have at that point is being fragile and taking longer than usual to heal. NOT a good combination.

For Maatta, if the expected time is 4-6 months, I would think 8 is a bit long unless there are complications. If he is not playing by Thanksgiving then there are problems.

If Bennett was fully recovered in exactly 4 months, that would have him fit to return roughly for the 1st pre-season game. When he had his injury last year, he seemed to come back and still have no strength in his wrist. Being that this is his 3rd surgery (not all on the same wrist), I would tend to be a bit more cautious and make sure he is truly at full strength....not just healed, ok to play, and can do no further damage.

I have heard different people state that a torn labrum is a bit tougher for a defenseman to recover from, and that 4-6 months may be optimistic....6-8 may be more realistic. Just like with the above, 4 months and 4-6 months recovery is a bit vague. Is that just the injury to heal, is that for the player to regain full strength and be 100% back to normal? Every player is different. I usually like to error on the longer side, and see anything sooner as a bonus.

According to the CBA, the player has to have a bona-fide injury that would cause them to miss 24 days or 10 NHL games in order to go on LTIR. So if Bennett falls behind schedule at all with his recovery, he may qualify. If his recovery to full strength took a full 5 months, for example, then that would be at least 24 days of the regular season....plenty of time for Kasperi to come in and play his 9 games and steal Bennett's spot in the lineup. :D The rule also states that the player cannot come off of LTIR until cap space has been cleared (if necessary) for him to come off LTIR. Rules also state that if you designate a player for LTIR, HE MUST miss at least 24 days or 10 games. Can't put him on LTIR and then after 6 games deem him healthy. Pages 290-294 of the CBA go over this topic.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby Jim on Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:40 am

I am just saying that if medically cleared to play... LTIR might not be an option even if you want to hold him out. It is just the potential difference between "medically cleared" and "ready"
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby GDR on Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:12 pm

The Penguins better be hoping for a favorable judgment from the arbitrator.

Ken Campbell ‏@THNKenCampbell 3h
Nick Spaling has asked for $2.85 million in arbitration and the Penguins are offering $1.65 million on a one-year award.

Anything close to $2.85 million and they have to walk away and let Spaling become a UFA.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:41 pm

GDR wrote:The Penguins better be hoping for a favorable judgment from the arbitrator.

Ken Campbell ‏@THNKenCampbell 3h
Nick Spaling has asked for $2.85 million in arbitration and the Penguins are offering $1.65 million on a one-year award.

Anything close to $2.85 million and they have to walk away and let Spaling become a UFA.

They cannot walk away, they are stuck with the award. Per CBA, cannot walk away from an award under 3.5M.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby pcm on Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:12 pm

Does the arbitor still have to pick one or the other? Or can they award something in the middle?
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby mikey287 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:25 pm

Middle.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:52 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
GDR wrote:The Penguins better be hoping for a favorable judgment from the arbitrator.

Ken Campbell ‏@THNKenCampbell 3h
Nick Spaling has asked for $2.85 million in arbitration and the Penguins are offering $1.65 million on a one-year award.

Anything close to $2.85 million and they have to walk away and let Spaling become a UFA.

They cannot walk away, they are stuck with the award. Per CBA, cannot walk away from an award under 3.5M.


never mind... sorry!
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby Penspal on Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:57 am

You can now pencil ink text tweet Spaling in as the 3rd line winger.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby DelPen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:02 am

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Blake Comeau ($0.700m) / Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Steve Downie ($1.000m)
Zach Sill ($0.550m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,319,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $3,680,833
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:07 am

Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis
Hornqvist - Malkin - Bennett
Downie - Sutter - Spaling
Comeau - Goc - Adams/Megna

Malkin needs to have a good season. The second line has clearly regressed from Jokinen/Neal/Bennett on the second line. Bennett contributed a lot last year to the first and third lines when he played on each with Stempniak playing on the line Bennett was not. Spaling is a clear downgrade from Stempniak, I think, but Downie adds a lot to a third line. I admittedly know nothing about Spaling, but I instinctively think Stempniak was a better option than Spaling. Goc gives the fourth line credibility. I hope Megna can play how I thought he played last year: well.

Absent from this lineup are the swing players like Stempniak and Jokinen that can play every position. I suppose the four centers can each move up a line if there is an injury or Malkin and Crosby play together. Downie can play a lot of places as can Dupuis.

In short, this group of 12 is less talented than last year's group of 12 even with the return of Dupuis. But last year's 12 was arguably less than the sum of their parts. GMRJ made specific moves to fix that philosophy -- hard workers in Spaling and Downie, net-front presence in Hornqvist -- that can hopefully propel through the glass ceiling it has recently experienced.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby DelPen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:11 am

Depending on what Sutter gets it could ensure Megna is priced out of Pittsburgh and Sill is up or someone else making closer to the minimum.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:12 am

DelPen wrote:Depending on what Sutter gets it could ensure Megna is priced out of Pittsburgh and Sill is up or someone else making closer to the minimum.

At a $300,000 difference, we're talking pennies, though, and I'm sure moves will eventually allow the Pens to play Megna when they want.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby DelPen on Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:18 am

TheHammer24 wrote:
DelPen wrote:Depending on what Sutter gets it could ensure Megna is priced out of Pittsburgh and Sill is up or someone else making closer to the minimum.

At a $300,000 difference, we're talking pennies, though, and I'm sure moves will eventually allow the Pens to play Megna when they want.


With the cap $300,000 is not pennies especially on this team. Same roster above, swap Sill for Megna leaves a max of $3.356 million. That's not enough to get sutter locked in long term and there is zero wiggle room there for front loading since the AAV will be too low.

Really need to move Martin or Scuderi just for cap relief right now. I'm not sure signing Ehrhoff was smart at this point which is leaving the top 6 in bad shape too along with Sutter's situation.
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Re: Up to Date Lineup

Postby Sams_Dog on Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:06 pm

Trade Scuderi to the Rangers for a first rounder. The Rags are always in for an old, overpriced, underachieving player.

#Thatwouldbenice
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