Work to start on Mellon arena site

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Re: Work to start on Mellon arena site

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:54 am

Yeah, definitely fair points and that is where I think the city has to focus. On those just "outside" the city areas. If you look at most other cities that is where it happens. They have done some nice things to Lawerenceville and are attempting some projects in the north side.

A good start. And that is where it has to happen, and should have been for a long tome in more areas. Downtown areas are what they are and I just don't see it changing much at all.
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Re: Work to start on Mellon arena site

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:00 am

raewhit wrote:Since there are very few downtown residents you need people from the suburbs to want to hang out downtown.
But the lack of an efficient mass transit system makes that difficult. People would be more likely to hang out downtown if it was easier to get there without drivng. Uber and Lyft are great things for people who live close the city. The T is great for people in the South Hills(I know that has its problems too), but if you live in Monroeville- forget about it- you gotta drive.

Now I think where Pittsburgh lacks is building up the areas close to the city. They have really failed to revitalize those and badly.


I think this is changing. Lawrenceville is booming. Tons of new housing is opening up geared to young people with disposable income.


Yeah and geography is a major thorn to Pittsburgh. I know a lot about development but not too experienced in mass transit. I assume an integrated system would be near impossible in Pittsburgh.

That is why these closer areas are so important. And yeah, it does take a long time, Pittsburgh just really ignored or was far behind on investing into the growth. That is why I am not super pumped about the arena development. Just doesn't do much for me. I would like the Southside, north side and Lawerenceville or like places where people will actually live and play to continue to grow.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind some places to before or after a game or concert. It's just not a real game changer for me. Just a nice to have.

With outer areas maybe people will frequent downtown more. But that's my two cents based on my limited knowledge.
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Re: Work to start on Mellon arena site

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:14 am

I'd be all about the arena development if it centered around housing but that doesnt seem to be the case. In the end it was a huge mistake to build the arena where they did.
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Re: Work to start on Mellon arena site

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:30 am

Might have been in terms of overall development. Like I said on the page before that entire area has a big foot traffic problem when not centered around events. Too far and uphill from most office buildings.
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Re: Work to start on Mellon arena site

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:35 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:Might have been in terms of overall development. Like I said on the page before that entire area has a big foot traffic problem when not centered around events. Too far and uphill from most office buildings.


I dont know if I buy the uphill argument. There are a lot of people who park in that lot and walk down/up each day to the buildings downtown. My thing is, how many more restaurants are they going to put in before the area is oversaturated? If there are no events there just isnt enough foot traffic. From what I've heard TGI Friday's in the Consol is hurting for revenue. Unless you add the residents to the area I think any development centered around retail / food is destined to fail.
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Re: Work to start on Mellon arena site

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:15 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:Might have been in terms of overall development. Like I said on the page before that entire area has a big foot traffic problem when not centered around events. Too far and uphill from most office buildings.


I dont know if I buy the uphill argument. There are a lot of people who park in that lot and walk down/up each day to the buildings downtown. My thing is, how many more restaurants are they going to put in before the area is oversaturated? If there are no events there just isnt enough foot traffic. From what I've heard TGI Friday's in the Consol is hurting for revenue. Unless you add the residents to the area I think any development centered around retail / food is destined to fail.


Surprisingly the landscape of areas like that are factored into the banks decisions and percentages are accounted for in terms of foot traffic. Now, people may park there because its cheaper than a downtown lot or garage and they used to have shuttles I believe. Or, the uphill thing actually doesn't mean anything at all in the end and its just basic layout.

Either way that area is not desirable right now because the majority of the city and foot traffic is well below the US Steel towers and Grant Street. So a business on Fifth can pull customers from all 4 directions whereas a restaurant
in the old Mellon arena can only pull from one direction and its limited in the distance. As you pointed out the foot traffic is just not there on non event days.

So. it would have to make up for it with residential. But how many units would it take to support more restaurants there? I really do not know the answer to that. This is my opinion but it would take a ton of housing to be able to support a functional district.
because it just doesn't work that way in other cities. You need many neighborhoods and downtown living areas to support them.

I do know a bit about development related to businesses but not residential. I wonder if there is a cut off point to how many apartments can support a certain number of restaurants.
I guess I just don't have high hopes for the area but could be dead wrong too.
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Re: Work to start on Mellon arena site

Postby thehockeyguru on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:29 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:Might have been in terms of overall development. Like I said on the page before that entire area has a big foot traffic problem when not centered around events. Too far and uphill from most office buildings.


I dont know if I buy the uphill argument. There are a lot of people who park in that lot and walk down/up each day to the buildings downtown. My thing is, how many more restaurants are they going to put in before the area is oversaturated? If there are no events there just isnt enough foot traffic. From what I've heard TGI Friday's in the Consol is hurting for revenue. Unless you add the residents to the area I think any development centered around retail / food is destined to fail.


Surprisingly the landscape of areas like that are factored into the banks decisions and percentages are accounted for in terms of foot traffic. Now, people may park there because its cheaper than a downtown lot or garage and they used to have shuttles I believe. Or, the uphill thing actually doesn't mean anything at all in the end and its just basic layout.

Either way that area is not desirable right now because the majority of the city and foot traffic is well below the US Steel towers and Grant Street. So a business on Fifth can pull customers from all 4 directions whereas a restaurant
in the old Mellon arena can only pull from one direction and its limited in the distance. As you pointed out the foot traffic is just not there on non event days.

So. it would have to make up for it with residential. But how many units would it take to support more restaurants there? I really do not know the answer to that. This is my opinion but it would take a ton of housing to be able to support a functional district.
because it just doesn't work that way in other cities. You need many neighborhoods and downtown living areas to support them.

I do know a bit about development related to businesses but not residential. I wonder if there is a cut off point to how many apartments can support a certain number of restaurants.
I guess I just don't have high hopes for the area but could be dead wrong too.



It seems like there is a push for office space and hotels not just in the mellon arean plot. Look at the development by market square (market square gardens I believe.) Its a hotel and office space. I was under the impression that there was a lot of Class A office space available in Pittsburgh already.
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