Have you stopped patronizing station square yet?

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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:19 pm

HomerPenguin wrote:This whole discussion assumes that if people who are informed about the arena issue boycotted Station Square, it would make a dent in the number of people who go there. I doubt that very much. But I will say that if the Penguins do get into a public shouting match with Ratner, I doubt very much that they are going to look to do business with his tenants AND I doubt that Ratner will make it easy for those tenants to do business with the Penguins.


Wasn't it you who mentioned the girls from pittsburgh who started the girlcott against Abrecombre and Fitch? (I know I spelled that wrong).

Sometimes even mice roar.

As for Ratner making it easy for his tenants doing business with the Pens. I really doubt that Ratners tenants buy anything from the Pens, i mean what would they buy? Pens gear is licensed and sold through distributors, and I've never heard of a lnadlord telling his tenants they can't sell items from a particular sports team (If my landlord told me that, It'd probably break my lease, and in either case, I'd immediately start looking for a new storfront)

As for the Pens buying from Ratners tenants, he has no leagal standing what-so-ever to tell his tenants who their suppliers can be.
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Postby HomerPenguin on Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:25 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Wasn't it you who mentioned the girls from pittsburgh who started the girlcott against Abrecombre and Fitch? (I know I spelled that wrong).


Nope
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Postby Marshall Dylan on Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:34 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
HomerPenguin wrote:This whole discussion assumes that if people who are informed about the arena issue boycotted Station Square, it would make a dent in the number of people who go there. I doubt that very much. But I will say that if the Penguins do get into a public shouting match with Ratner, I doubt very much that they are going to look to do business with his tenants AND I doubt that Ratner will make it easy for those tenants to do business with the Penguins.


Wasn't it you who mentioned the girls from pittsburgh who started the girlcott against Abrecombre and Fitch? (I know I spelled that wrong).

Sometimes even mice roar.

As for Ratner making it easy for his tenants doing business with the Pens. I really doubt that Ratners tenants buy anything from the Pens, i mean what would they buy? Pens gear is licensed and sold through distributors, and I've never heard of a lnadlord telling his tenants they can't sell items from a particular sports team (If my landlord told me that, It'd probably break my lease, and in either case, I'd immediately start looking for a new storfront)

As for the Pens buying from Ratners tenants, he has no leagal standing what-so-ever to tell his tenants who their suppliers can be.


Not talking about merchandise, talking about things like sponsorships and advertising and other promotional tie-ins.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:37 pm

HomerPenguin wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Wasn't it you who mentioned the girls from pittsburgh who started the girlcott against Abrecombre and Fitch? (I know I spelled that wrong).


Nope


Sorry, it was DBoss on page 2 of this thread. He made an excellent point.
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Postby Marshall Dylan on Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:39 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:One more time: Boycotting Station Square means far less to Forest City than it does to the people who lease space there. Did it ever occur to anyone that the Penguins may do business with some of the Station Square tenants for things like advertising and sponsorship?


Forest City must be turned into a pariah. They gave Rendell the $170K bribe. Doing business with them (and by extension their tenants) is not in the best interest of Pens fans because they put the fix in.

A Giant Eagle sponsorship is not worth millions to the Pens. Retail space is not sold as storage space. "Information tables" in high traffic areas is a 1960s strategy in a digital era. On the off chance there is anybody at Station Square negotiating a new sponsorship with the Pens it would be for their final season in Pittsburgh assuming the Forest City jackals, Rendell, etc prevent the Pens from getting a new arena so why would Pens fans care about sponsorships for a team leaving town?


Giant Eagle sponsorships are worth millions to the Pirates and Steelers. Look it up.

Let's see, if information tables are a 1960s strategy, what does that make a rally attended by 500 people outside Mellon Arena? I guess all those politicans who knock on doors at election time are exercising a 1960s strategy in a digital era. Hell, they should just set up websites. One-on-one contact where you can make your case and answer questions is so 1960s.

What's sad about this is the energy could really be applied efficiently and make a difference, yet people prefer some vague radical strategy which is the equivalent of the proverbial chicken running around with his head cut off.

Good luck with the pariah conversion. You have the 300 people who post here firmly in your corner.
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Postby Draftnik on Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:14 pm

Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:One more time: Boycotting Station Square means far less to Forest City than it does to the people who lease space there. Did it ever occur to anyone that the Penguins may do business with some of the Station Square tenants for things like advertising and sponsorship?


Forest City must be turned into a pariah. They gave Rendell the $170K bribe. Doing business with them (and by extension their tenants) is not in the best interest of Pens fans because they put the fix in.

A Giant Eagle sponsorship is not worth millions to the Pens. Retail space is not sold as storage space. "Information tables" in high traffic areas is a 1960s strategy in a digital era. On the off chance there is anybody at Station Square negotiating a new sponsorship with the Pens it would be for their final season in Pittsburgh assuming the Forest City jackals, Rendell, etc prevent the Pens from getting a new arena so why would Pens fans care about sponsorships for a team leaving town?


Giant Eagle sponsorships are worth millions to the Pirates and Steelers. Look it up.

Let's see, if information tables are a 1960s strategy, what does that make a rally attended by 500 people outside Mellon Arena? I guess all those politicans who knock on doors at election time are exercising a 1960s strategy in a digital era. Hell, they should just set up websites. One-on-one contact where you can make your case and answer questions is so 1960s.

What's sad about this is the energy could really be applied efficiently and make a difference, yet people prefer some vague radical strategy which is the equivalent of the proverbial chicken running around with his head cut off.

Good luck with the pariah conversion. You have the 300 people who post here firmly in your corner.



The only sponsorship value I've seen on record for the Steelers is Heinz Field. It is $57M for 20 years. If the prime sponsorship of the Steelers goes for less than $3M it is highly unlikely a sponsorship for the Penguins would go for "millions." It is customary on this board to post links backing up your claims. In light of your claim earlier in this thread that Forest City could lease prime retail space for "storage space", your credibility is highly questionable. If it is so obvious the value of Giant Eagle's contract with the Steelers is in the millions you should easily be able to produce a link to a credible press release. The same should be just as easy with the Pirates.

This issue has 2 parties in opposition to the Pens. Forest City and Rendell. They are the key people that must be made to feel pain if things are to move in the Pens favor.

Going door to door may work for Christian political groups with millions of volunteers. The Pens don't have a fraction of those numbers and their issue isn't something that would generate much sympathy from non-hockey fans, especially when their home life is interrupted by an intrusion from a stranger at their door. The cultural acceptability of door to door and telephone solicitations has declined infinitely in the past few decades.
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Postby Marshall Dylan on Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:20 pm

Have you seen the signage at PNC Park and Heinz Field? Have you seen the ads in the programs for the Pirates and Steelers? Have you seen how many promotional days/nights Giant Eagle underwrites for the Pirates? Have you seen and heard the Giant Eagle commercials on Pirates' radio and TV broadcasts?

The relationships with Giant Eagle are worth millions to those two franchises. I don't know why Giant Eagle would issue a press release announcing how much they'd spent, but a lot of what you're saying isn't terribly logical.

Oh and, by the way, here's how much Giant Eagle spends on the Penguins: $0.00. I'm guessing -- just a guess, mind you -- the Penguins could use that money more than the Steelers.

OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:25 pm

Marshall Dylan wrote:OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.


Get out of Dodge... :-) :-) :-)
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Postby Draftnik on Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:36 pm

Marshall Dylan wrote:Have you seen the signage at PNC Park and Heinz Field? Have you seen the ads in the programs for the Pirates and Steelers? Have you seen how many promotional days/nights Giant Eagle underwrites for the Pirates? Have you seen and heard the Giant Eagle commercials on Pirates' radio and TV broadcasts?

The relationships with Giant Eagle are worth millions to those two franchises. I don't know why Giant Eagle would issue a press release announcing how much they'd spent, but a lot of what you're saying isn't terribly logical.

Oh and, by the way, here's how much Giant Eagle spends on the Penguins: $0.00. I'm guessing -- just a guess, mind you -- the Penguins could use that money more than the Steelers.

OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.


Logic 101. Heinz has naming rights for the stadium which is mentioned an infinite number of times on TV. That is much more valuable than in stadium signage or game program ads. Heinz has a huge sign on the outside of the stadium facing downtown Pittsburgh. That is seen every day by hundreds of thousands of people. Heinz has the red zone signage inside the stadium. It is the most prominent in-stadium signage by far and also is mentioned over the PA system when the Steelers are in the red zone so it isn't some innocuous sign that may or may not be recognized by stadium patrons. With all that Heinz still isn't spending $3M per year. That is a fact, not my opinion. I never buy a program, as many Steeler fans don't. Those ads are seen by far less than the 65K in attendance and are worth much less than Heinz being mentioned on TV. For all I know Heinz has ads in the program too. Either way, the value of Giant Eagle's exposure to the 65K in attendance is far less than Heinz and that doesn't even account for the fact that Giant Eagle is not mentioned to the large local TV/radio audience for regular season games and the national audience Heinz gets for SNF/MNF/home playoff games. There is no way he value of Giant Eagle's in stadium signage (much smaller than Heinz by the way) remotely approaches the value of Heinz's naming rights, inside signage, and outside signage facing downtown Pittsburgh.

Great job, now this thread has nothing to do with a new Pens arena. Maybe Giant Eagle will give the Pens a few hundred K next season when CP is gone.
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Postby Marshall Dylan on Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:51 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:Have you seen the signage at PNC Park and Heinz Field? Have you seen the ads in the programs for the Pirates and Steelers? Have you seen how many promotional days/nights Giant Eagle underwrites for the Pirates? Have you seen and heard the Giant Eagle commercials on Pirates' radio and TV broadcasts?

The relationships with Giant Eagle are worth millions to those two franchises. I don't know why Giant Eagle would issue a press release announcing how much they'd spent, but a lot of what you're saying isn't terribly logical.

Oh and, by the way, here's how much Giant Eagle spends on the Penguins: $0.00. I'm guessing -- just a guess, mind you -- the Penguins could use that money more than the Steelers.

OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.


Logic 101. Heinz has naming rights for the stadium which is mentioned an infinite number of times on TV. That is much more valuable than in stadium signage or game program ads. Heinz has a huge sign on the outside of the stadium facing downtown Pittsburgh. That is seen every day by hundreds of thousands of people. Heinz has the red zone signage inside the stadium. It is the most prominent in-stadium signage by far and also is mentioned over the PA system when the Steelers are in the red zone so it isn't some innocuous sign that may or may not be recognized by stadium patrons. With all that Heinz still isn't spending $3M per year. That is a fact, not my opinion. I never buy a program, as many Steeler fans don't. Those ads are seen by far less than the 65K in attendance and are worth much less than Heinz being mentioned on TV. For all I know Heinz has ads in the program too. Either way, the value of Giant Eagle's exposure to the 65K in attendance is far less than Heinz and that doesn't even account for the fact that Giant Eagle is not mentioned to the large local TV/radio audience for regular season games and the national audience Heinz gets for SNF/MNF/home playoff games. There is no way he value of Giant Eagle's in stadium signage (much smaller than Heinz by the way) remotely approaches the value of Heinz's naming rights, inside signage, and outside signage facing downtown Pittsburgh.

Great job, now this thread has nothing to do with a new Pens arena. Maybe Giant Eagle will give the Pens a few hundred K next season when CP is gone.


All that speculative blather and not one word about the Pirates? Way to ignore most of the issue.

BTW, this thread is about boycotting Station Square, a silly and pointless diversion that has nothing to do with the Pens getting a new arena. So don't sweat it.
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Postby Draftnik on Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:04 pm

Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:Have you seen the signage at PNC Park and Heinz Field? Have you seen the ads in the programs for the Pirates and Steelers? Have you seen how many promotional days/nights Giant Eagle underwrites for the Pirates? Have you seen and heard the Giant Eagle commercials on Pirates' radio and TV broadcasts?

The relationships with Giant Eagle are worth millions to those two franchises. I don't know why Giant Eagle would issue a press release announcing how much they'd spent, but a lot of what you're saying isn't terribly logical.

Oh and, by the way, here's how much Giant Eagle spends on the Penguins: $0.00. I'm guessing -- just a guess, mind you -- the Penguins could use that money more than the Steelers.

OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.


Logic 101. Heinz has naming rights for the stadium which is mentioned an infinite number of times on TV. That is much more valuable than in stadium signage or game program ads. Heinz has a huge sign on the outside of the stadium facing downtown Pittsburgh. That is seen every day by hundreds of thousands of people. Heinz has the red zone signage inside the stadium. It is the most prominent in-stadium signage by far and also is mentioned over the PA system when the Steelers are in the red zone so it isn't some innocuous sign that may or may not be recognized by stadium patrons. With all that Heinz still isn't spending $3M per year. That is a fact, not my opinion. I never buy a program, as many Steeler fans don't. Those ads are seen by far less than the 65K in attendance and are worth much less than Heinz being mentioned on TV. For all I know Heinz has ads in the program too. Either way, the value of Giant Eagle's exposure to the 65K in attendance is far less than Heinz and that doesn't even account for the fact that Giant Eagle is not mentioned to the large local TV/radio audience for regular season games and the national audience Heinz gets for SNF/MNF/home playoff games. There is no way he value of Giant Eagle's in stadium signage (much smaller than Heinz by the way) remotely approaches the value of Heinz's naming rights, inside signage, and outside signage facing downtown Pittsburgh.

Great job, now this thread has nothing to do with a new Pens arena. Maybe Giant Eagle will give the Pens a few hundred K next season when CP is gone.


All that speculative blather and not one word about the Pirates? Way to ignore most of the issue.

BTW, this thread is about boycotting Station Square, a silly and pointless diversion that has nothing to do with the Pens getting a new arena. So don't sweat it.


You are so full of misinformation it is pointless to address your claims. I guess TV and radio broadcasting is another one of your areas of expertise, just like commercial real estate. The Pirates don't get any $$$ from Giant Eagle for radio and TV commercials. KDKA and FSN pay the Pirates a fixed rights fee to broadcast their games. They (KDKA & FSN, not the Pirates) sell ad time to sponsors like Giant Eagle and keep the revenue.

I'm not going to bother googling the PNC contract for naming rights at PNC Park. Off the top of my head it was probably between $1.5M to $2.5M per year. All other sponsorships fall in behind that since the value of PNC being mentioned in PNC Park is infinitely more than in stadium signage, program ads, game day sponsorship, etc. That fee also includes any in stadium signage PNC has, the sign on the outside of the park seen by tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people every day... Giant Eagle doesn't trump PNC in Pirates sponsorship value. Do you have any other questions?
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Postby Peter on Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:16 pm

HomerPenguin wrote:Yes, Peter, I'm sure that millions of people come into Pittsburgh each year for STATION SQUARE.


I don't have numbers, but with the ic light amphitheater, there are lots of events. Even Weird Al comes to the ic light amphitheater. :lol: Yeah! Also the comedy club brings people in, I think Lewis Black performed there and others of note. Also with the Matrix, even hip people go there. Saying that it's not a draw for people to come to the city is just silly. Also I never thought we would even have a Hard Rock Cafe, and that certainly is a tourist trap. Face it, SS is one of the attractions to coming to Pittsburgh. The strip or other plaecs may be more popular, I'll accept that if it's true. Do you live in Chicago?

As for being dense, perhaps I am. But we're just having a debate, no need to get snippy. I'm not the only one here who thinks the SS boycot would be silly.
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Postby Marshall Dylan on Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:24 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:Have you seen the signage at PNC Park and Heinz Field? Have you seen the ads in the programs for the Pirates and Steelers? Have you seen how many promotional days/nights Giant Eagle underwrites for the Pirates? Have you seen and heard the Giant Eagle commercials on Pirates' radio and TV broadcasts?

The relationships with Giant Eagle are worth millions to those two franchises. I don't know why Giant Eagle would issue a press release announcing how much they'd spent, but a lot of what you're saying isn't terribly logical.

Oh and, by the way, here's how much Giant Eagle spends on the Penguins: $0.00. I'm guessing -- just a guess, mind you -- the Penguins could use that money more than the Steelers.

OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.


Logic 101. Heinz has naming rights for the stadium which is mentioned an infinite number of times on TV. That is much more valuable than in stadium signage or game program ads. Heinz has a huge sign on the outside of the stadium facing downtown Pittsburgh. That is seen every day by hundreds of thousands of people. Heinz has the red zone signage inside the stadium. It is the most prominent in-stadium signage by far and also is mentioned over the PA system when the Steelers are in the red zone so it isn't some innocuous sign that may or may not be recognized by stadium patrons. With all that Heinz still isn't spending $3M per year. That is a fact, not my opinion. I never buy a program, as many Steeler fans don't. Those ads are seen by far less than the 65K in attendance and are worth much less than Heinz being mentioned on TV. For all I know Heinz has ads in the program too. Either way, the value of Giant Eagle's exposure to the 65K in attendance is far less than Heinz and that doesn't even account for the fact that Giant Eagle is not mentioned to the large local TV/radio audience for regular season games and the national audience Heinz gets for SNF/MNF/home playoff games. There is no way he value of Giant Eagle's in stadium signage (much smaller than Heinz by the way) remotely approaches the value of Heinz's naming rights, inside signage, and outside signage facing downtown Pittsburgh.

Great job, now this thread has nothing to do with a new Pens arena. Maybe Giant Eagle will give the Pens a few hundred K next season when CP is gone.


All that speculative blather and not one word about the Pirates? Way to ignore most of the issue.

BTW, this thread is about boycotting Station Square, a silly and pointless diversion that has nothing to do with the Pens getting a new arena. So don't sweat it.


You are so full of misinformation it is pointless to address your claims. I guess TV and radio broadcasting is another one of your areas of expertise, just like commercial real estate. The Pirates don't get any $$$ from Giant Eagle for radio and TV commercials. KDKA and FSN pay the Pirates a fixed rights fee to broadcast their games. They (KDKA & FSN, not the Pirates) sell ad time to sponsors like Giant Eagle and keep the revenue.

I'm not going to bother googling the PNC contract for naming rights at PNC Park. Off the top of my head it was probably between $1.5M to $2.5M per year. All other sponsorships fall in behind that since the value of PNC being mentioned in PNC Park is infinitely more than in stadium signage, program ads, game day sponsorship, etc. That fee also includes any in stadium signage PNC has, the sign on the outside of the park seen by tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people every day... Giant Eagle doesn't trump PNC in Pirates sponsorship value. Do you have any other questions?


And this information is GOLD because it comes off the top of your head? Weren't you the one demanding proof from non-existent press releases?

Where is it written that no one can spend more than the company that purchased naming rights? Other companies are involved in many more ways as the years go on. The naming rights deals were locked in eight or nine years ago.

Sorry, no, the Pirates DO get revenue from advertising on the radio broadcasts and it's tied into the other things that sponsors do with the franchise. It's called synergy.

You keep an eye on things here, OK? I'm gonna go burn a cross on the lawn at Station Square.
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Postby Peter on Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:29 pm

Hey guys, and I'm being totally serious here, but I'm on my way to Station square to have Sushi at Kiku with my sister. I thought you would all like to know that. :D
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Postby Draftnik on Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:36 pm

Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:Have you seen the signage at PNC Park and Heinz Field? Have you seen the ads in the programs for the Pirates and Steelers? Have you seen how many promotional days/nights Giant Eagle underwrites for the Pirates? Have you seen and heard the Giant Eagle commercials on Pirates' radio and TV broadcasts?

The relationships with Giant Eagle are worth millions to those two franchises. I don't know why Giant Eagle would issue a press release announcing how much they'd spent, but a lot of what you're saying isn't terribly logical.

Oh and, by the way, here's how much Giant Eagle spends on the Penguins: $0.00. I'm guessing -- just a guess, mind you -- the Penguins could use that money more than the Steelers.

OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.


Logic 101. Heinz has naming rights for the stadium which is mentioned an infinite number of times on TV. That is much more valuable than in stadium signage or game program ads. Heinz has a huge sign on the outside of the stadium facing downtown Pittsburgh. That is seen every day by hundreds of thousands of people. Heinz has the red zone signage inside the stadium. It is the most prominent in-stadium signage by far and also is mentioned over the PA system when the Steelers are in the red zone so it isn't some innocuous sign that may or may not be recognized by stadium patrons. With all that Heinz still isn't spending $3M per year. That is a fact, not my opinion. I never buy a program, as many Steeler fans don't. Those ads are seen by far less than the 65K in attendance and are worth much less than Heinz being mentioned on TV. For all I know Heinz has ads in the program too. Either way, the value of Giant Eagle's exposure to the 65K in attendance is far less than Heinz and that doesn't even account for the fact that Giant Eagle is not mentioned to the large local TV/radio audience for regular season games and the national audience Heinz gets for SNF/MNF/home playoff games. There is no way he value of Giant Eagle's in stadium signage (much smaller than Heinz by the way) remotely approaches the value of Heinz's naming rights, inside signage, and outside signage facing downtown Pittsburgh.

Great job, now this thread has nothing to do with a new Pens arena. Maybe Giant Eagle will give the Pens a few hundred K next season when CP is gone.


All that speculative blather and not one word about the Pirates? Way to ignore most of the issue.

BTW, this thread is about boycotting Station Square, a silly and pointless diversion that has nothing to do with the Pens getting a new arena. So don't sweat it.


You are so full of misinformation it is pointless to address your claims. I guess TV and radio broadcasting is another one of your areas of expertise, just like commercial real estate. The Pirates don't get any $$$ from Giant Eagle for radio and TV commercials. KDKA and FSN pay the Pirates a fixed rights fee to broadcast their games. They (KDKA & FSN, not the Pirates) sell ad time to sponsors like Giant Eagle and keep the revenue.

I'm not going to bother googling the PNC contract for naming rights at PNC Park. Off the top of my head it was probably between $1.5M to $2.5M per year. All other sponsorships fall in behind that since the value of PNC being mentioned in PNC Park is infinitely more than in stadium signage, program ads, game day sponsorship, etc. That fee also includes any in stadium signage PNC has, the sign on the outside of the park seen by tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people every day... Giant Eagle doesn't trump PNC in Pirates sponsorship value. Do you have any other questions?


And this information is GOLD because it comes off the top of your head? Weren't you the one demanding proof from non-existent press releases?

Where is it written that no one can spend more than the company that purchased naming rights? Other companies are involved in many more ways as the years go on. The naming rights deals were locked in eight or nine years ago.

Sorry, no, the Pirates DO get revenue from advertising on the radio broadcasts and it's tied into the other things that sponsors do with the franchise. It's called synergy.

You keep an eye on things here, OK? I'm gonna go burn a cross on the lawn at Station Square.


Keep burying yourself. I did not erroneously guess the value as you did with Giant Eagle. I knew it from reading about it a few years ago:

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/stadiumnames.html

It turns out the midpoint of my range was the exact value. The naming rights and associated signage are more valuable than other sponsorships because they reach a much wider audience than the in stadium crowd. That is sports marketing 101.

You should put your marketing plan together and pitch it to the Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins. I'm sure they will be very interested to hear how you will get them multi-million dollar sponsorships with your synergistic plans. Don't call Giant Eagle though. They would not want to hear how you would spend millions of dollars on things they are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for right now.
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Postby dboss on Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:55 pm

Peter wrote:
HomerPenguin wrote:Yes, Peter, I'm sure that millions of people come into Pittsburgh each year for STATION SQUARE.


I don't have numbers, but with the ic light amphitheater, there are lots of events. Even Weird Al comes to the ic light amphitheater. :lol: Yeah! Also the comedy club brings people in, I think Lewis Black performed there and others of note. Also with the Matrix, even hip people go there. Saying that it's not a draw for people to come to the city is just silly. Also I never thought we would even have a Hard Rock Cafe, and that certainly is a tourist trap. Face it, SS is one of the attractions to coming to Pittsburgh. The strip or other plaecs may be more popular, I'll accept that if it's true. Do you live in Chicago?

As for being dense, perhaps I am. But we're just having a debate, no need to get snippy. I'm not the only one here who thinks the SS boycot would be silly.


Who is coming from out of town to see ANYTHING that you mentioned? The fact that you brought up the IC Light Amphitheater in a statement totally undermines that statement. IC Light Amphitheater has never hosted anything that I have been to, nor anything I have wanted to attend. The only thing I am aware of them hosting is Sheriff Pete DeFazio's yearly Fundraiser. Everything that you have mentioned is driven by the local economy.
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Postby Peter on Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:34 pm

dboss wrote:
IC Light Amphitheater has never hosted anything that I have been to, nor anything I have wanted to attend.


Oh, okay. I'm sorry, that settles it then. Wow I really hope Rendell knows that you don't go down there.
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Postby dboss on Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:54 pm

Peter wrote:
dboss wrote:
IC Light Amphitheater has never hosted anything that I have been to, nor anything I have wanted to attend.


Oh, okay. I'm sorry, that settles it then. Wow I really hope Rendell knows that you don't go down there.


Hey Pete, why don't you take your bandwagon self down to Station Square and buy a BRAND NEW Super Bowl XL Terrible Towel. On your way, swing that bandwagon on by Mellon Arena and tell Mario he is a piece of crap and that you no longer have a need for him in this city because you have just become a Steelers fan. Make sure he knows you only support the great 'local' merchants down at Station Square and that you would rather take your business to Forest City owned properties than 'inconvenience' yourself by driving somewhere MUCH further away, like Shadyside, to get the EXACT same products.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:23 pm

Relax guys... Peter is either a Station Square employee, or just too dense to understand basic economics...
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Postby HomerPenguin on Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:46 pm

Peter wrote:
HomerPenguin wrote:Yes, Peter, I'm sure that millions of people come into Pittsburgh each year for STATION SQUARE.


I don't have numbers, but with the ic light amphitheater, there are lots of events. Even Weird Al comes to the ic light amphitheater. :lol: Yeah! Also the comedy club brings people in, I think Lewis Black performed there and others of note. Also with the Matrix, even hip people go there. Saying that it's not a draw for people to come to the city is just silly. Also I never thought we would even have a Hard Rock Cafe, and that certainly is a tourist trap. Face it, SS is one of the attractions to coming to Pittsburgh. The strip or other plaecs may be more popular, I'll accept that if it's true. Do you live in Chicago?


I don't know, maybe you're talking about Station Square attracting suburbanites into downtown Pittsburgh. Are you? That might make some sense, but it beats the hell out of me what quantitative difference it makes to the state whether those people spend their entertainment money there or someplace else.

But if you honestly think that some second-rate concerts at a fifth-rate amphitheatre and a bunch of chain bars are bringing TOURISTS into the city of Pittsburgh, you're not dense, you're delusional.
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Postby Marshall Dylan on Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:52 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:Have you seen the signage at PNC Park and Heinz Field? Have you seen the ads in the programs for the Pirates and Steelers? Have you seen how many promotional days/nights Giant Eagle underwrites for the Pirates? Have you seen and heard the Giant Eagle commercials on Pirates' radio and TV broadcasts?

The relationships with Giant Eagle are worth millions to those two franchises. I don't know why Giant Eagle would issue a press release announcing how much they'd spent, but a lot of what you're saying isn't terribly logical.

Oh and, by the way, here's how much Giant Eagle spends on the Penguins: $0.00. I'm guessing -- just a guess, mind you -- the Penguins could use that money more than the Steelers.

OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.


Logic 101. Heinz has naming rights for the stadium which is mentioned an infinite number of times on TV. That is much more valuable than in stadium signage or game program ads. Heinz has a huge sign on the outside of the stadium facing downtown Pittsburgh. That is seen every day by hundreds of thousands of people. Heinz has the red zone signage inside the stadium. It is the most prominent in-stadium signage by far and also is mentioned over the PA system when the Steelers are in the red zone so it isn't some innocuous sign that may or may not be recognized by stadium patrons. With all that Heinz still isn't spending $3M per year. That is a fact, not my opinion. I never buy a program, as many Steeler fans don't. Those ads are seen by far less than the 65K in attendance and are worth much less than Heinz being mentioned on TV. For all I know Heinz has ads in the program too. Either way, the value of Giant Eagle's exposure to the 65K in attendance is far less than Heinz and that doesn't even account for the fact that Giant Eagle is not mentioned to the large local TV/radio audience for regular season games and the national audience Heinz gets for SNF/MNF/home playoff games. There is no way he value of Giant Eagle's in stadium signage (much smaller than Heinz by the way) remotely approaches the value of Heinz's naming rights, inside signage, and outside signage facing downtown Pittsburgh.

Great job, now this thread has nothing to do with a new Pens arena. Maybe Giant Eagle will give the Pens a few hundred K next season when CP is gone.


All that speculative blather and not one word about the Pirates? Way to ignore most of the issue.

BTW, this thread is about boycotting Station Square, a silly and pointless diversion that has nothing to do with the Pens getting a new arena. So don't sweat it.


You are so full of misinformation it is pointless to address your claims. I guess TV and radio broadcasting is another one of your areas of expertise, just like commercial real estate. The Pirates don't get any $$$ from Giant Eagle for radio and TV commercials. KDKA and FSN pay the Pirates a fixed rights fee to broadcast their games. They (KDKA & FSN, not the Pirates) sell ad time to sponsors like Giant Eagle and keep the revenue.

I'm not going to bother googling the PNC contract for naming rights at PNC Park. Off the top of my head it was probably between $1.5M to $2.5M per year. All other sponsorships fall in behind that since the value of PNC being mentioned in PNC Park is infinitely more than in stadium signage, program ads, game day sponsorship, etc. That fee also includes any in stadium signage PNC has, the sign on the outside of the park seen by tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people every day... Giant Eagle doesn't trump PNC in Pirates sponsorship value. Do you have any other questions?


And this information is GOLD because it comes off the top of your head? Weren't you the one demanding proof from non-existent press releases?

Where is it written that no one can spend more than the company that purchased naming rights? Other companies are involved in many more ways as the years go on. The naming rights deals were locked in eight or nine years ago.

Sorry, no, the Pirates DO get revenue from advertising on the radio broadcasts and it's tied into the other things that sponsors do with the franchise. It's called synergy.

You keep an eye on things here, OK? I'm gonna go burn a cross on the lawn at Station Square.


Keep burying yourself. I did not erroneously guess the value as you did with Giant Eagle. I knew it from reading about it a few years ago:

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/stadiumnames.html

It turns out the midpoint of my range was the exact value. The naming rights and associated signage are more valuable than other sponsorships because they reach a much wider audience than the in stadium crowd. That is sports marketing 101.

You should put your marketing plan together and pitch it to the Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins. I'm sure they will be very interested to hear how you will get them multi-million dollar sponsorships with your synergistic plans. Don't call Giant Eagle though. They would not want to hear how you would spend millions of dollars on things they are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for right now.


You're a funny one. You keep insisting naming rights are the biggest investment from the corporate community. When they buy naming rights, they buy them for a long time. The amount is locked in. Things change over the course of time. Other companies have a need to get involved on a large scale, which is what's happened with Giant Eagle. Giant Eagle spends in seven figures on the Pirates and has for at least a decade. That's a fact, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. It's also a fact that Giant Eagle spends nothing on the Pens.

But, of course, you have a table of naming rights values, which proves nothing.

If you really care about this issue, you'd do well to make some calls or send some e-mails. Contact the Penguins and ask them what's the most effective thing fans can do help the cause. Ask the same question of Bill Peduto at City Council and State Sens. Fontana and Logan. Maybe it's as simple as the 1960s concept of stuffing envelopes or doing some other grunt work. But at least you'd be doing something that would actually assist the cause for a new arena.

Boycotting Station Square and changing party affilation to vote against Rendell in the primary are completely futile gestures.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to stand on the Smithfield Street Bridge and flip the bird to Station Square for eight hours. That'll show 'em.
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Postby passmaster16 on Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:15 am


If you really care about this issue, you'd do well to make some calls or send some e-mails. Contact the Penguins and ask them what's the most effective thing fans can do help the cause. Ask the same question of Bill Peduto at City Council and State Sens. Fontana and Logan. Maybe it's as simple as the 1960s concept of stuffing envelopes or doing some other grunt work. But at least you'd be doing something that would actually assist the cause for a new arena.

Boycotting Station Square and changing party affilation to vote against Rendell in the primary are completely futile gestures.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to stand on the Smithfield Street Bridge and flip the bird to Station Square for eight hours. That'll show 'em.


I've asked the question to the state sens and they all say the same thing...to keep pressure on Rendell, Oconnor and Onorato.

Fontana:
Thank you for communicating to me your thoughts on the need for a new
arena, the future of the Pittsburgh Penguins, and the Isle of Capri
Casino Plan.

It is important to the region, including the City of Pittsburgh, that we
retain the Penguins in the city. The Penguins have not asked for state
money; instead, their plan revolves around getting the slots license.
That being said, the State Senate has no vote in that decision, but its
members can certainly have an impact, as can you.

Just recently, I introduced legislation asking the Gaming Board to take
into consideration whether a casino plan includes funding for an arena
when making their decision regarding the slots license. Senators Costa
and Logan have signed on as co-sponsors on this bill. It is my hope
that this bill will be one more tool to ensure that the decision that
the Gaming Board makes is one that best for the City and region.

Together, I believe we can do what is necessary to keep the Penguins in
Pittsburgh. Again, thank you for your communication. I look forward to
hearing from you on this and other issues that are of importance to you.

Logan:

Thanks for your email concerning the Pens. I share your same concerns.
I am very supportive of keeping the Penguins in Pittsburgh and will do
all that I can to achieve that goal. I believe that whoever receives
the City of Pittsburgh Slots License should contribute towards the
construction of a new arena. In fact, I cosponsored legislation
introduced by Senator Wayne Fontana that would ensure that any slots
proposal that has an arena component is strongly considered. The
Penguins Slots Proposal is very thorough and would greatly help Uptown
if awarded and will do all that I can to make sure it is considered by
the Gaming Board.

Pippy:

Thank you for contacting me in support of funding for the development of a new arena in the City of Pittsburgh. As you may know, discussions with officials at the state and county levels are underway in order to determine the potential availability of gaming or alternative funds for this project. I believe that it is very important that the Penguins remain in Pittsburgh, as the team is a vital regional asset. In addition, the Civic Arena is a facility that is used by a wide variety of organizations throughout the year. The cumulative economic impact of these events generates a significant amount of revenue for the local market. In light of this, I have publicly endorsed the Penguins’ partnership with Isle of Capri Casinos in their efforts to secure a gaming license. Not only does their proposal allow the Penguins to remain in Pittsburgh, but it also would provide funding for future downtown development and revitalization. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts on this matter.

Burn:

Thanks for the E-mail. I do in fact publicly support the Capri Plan, but
my e-mail address appears on the wrong side of the various web pages
regarding this issue despite my requests to have it moved. Please make
your voice heard in April when the gaming board arrives in town.

Orie:

you and I are on the same page!!! The Penquins proposal is a
WIN-WIN FOR PENQUINS AND THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH AND THE REGION!!!!! THIS
ENTIRE PROCESS WITH GAMING LICENSES HAS ME VERY
CONCERNED----------------I HEAR THE SAME RUMORS YOU HAVE
HEARD---------------------I HOPE THE PENQUINS PREVAIL!!!!!! THANKS FOR
YOUR EMAIL---IT IS RIGHT ON POINT AND VERY POWERFUL!!! KEEP THE PRESSURE
ON MAYOR---COUNTY EXECUTIVE ONORATO AND GOVERNOR!!!!

Wagner:

This is just a short note to thank you for your recent e-mail communication and comments related to keeping the Pittsburgh Penguins in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We could also significantly reduce the public cost of a new arena by requiring the recipient of the slots license to fund the project.

I appreciate your kind remarks and look forward to your continued support toward that goal.


...So there you have it...rather than just talking, why don't you begin to do your part to help the cause? To this point you have offered nothing other than negative input regarding topics I highly doubt you specialize in. Read through these messages and tell me what else can be done to help this team...Or do you even really care about this issue or about this team? If you don't, why are you here?
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Postby Draftnik on Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:24 am

Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:Have you seen the signage at PNC Park and Heinz Field? Have you seen the ads in the programs for the Pirates and Steelers? Have you seen how many promotional days/nights Giant Eagle underwrites for the Pirates? Have you seen and heard the Giant Eagle commercials on Pirates' radio and TV broadcasts?

The relationships with Giant Eagle are worth millions to those two franchises. I don't know why Giant Eagle would issue a press release announcing how much they'd spent, but a lot of what you're saying isn't terribly logical.

Oh and, by the way, here's how much Giant Eagle spends on the Penguins: $0.00. I'm guessing -- just a guess, mind you -- the Penguins could use that money more than the Steelers.

OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.


Logic 101. Heinz has naming rights for the stadium which is mentioned an infinite number of times on TV. That is much more valuable than in stadium signage or game program ads. Heinz has a huge sign on the outside of the stadium facing downtown Pittsburgh. That is seen every day by hundreds of thousands of people. Heinz has the red zone signage inside the stadium. It is the most prominent in-stadium signage by far and also is mentioned over the PA system when the Steelers are in the red zone so it isn't some innocuous sign that may or may not be recognized by stadium patrons. With all that Heinz still isn't spending $3M per year. That is a fact, not my opinion. I never buy a program, as many Steeler fans don't. Those ads are seen by far less than the 65K in attendance and are worth much less than Heinz being mentioned on TV. For all I know Heinz has ads in the program too. Either way, the value of Giant Eagle's exposure to the 65K in attendance is far less than Heinz and that doesn't even account for the fact that Giant Eagle is not mentioned to the large local TV/radio audience for regular season games and the national audience Heinz gets for SNF/MNF/home playoff games. There is no way he value of Giant Eagle's in stadium signage (much smaller than Heinz by the way) remotely approaches the value of Heinz's naming rights, inside signage, and outside signage facing downtown Pittsburgh.

Great job, now this thread has nothing to do with a new Pens arena. Maybe Giant Eagle will give the Pens a few hundred K next season when CP is gone.


All that speculative blather and not one word about the Pirates? Way to ignore most of the issue.

BTW, this thread is about boycotting Station Square, a silly and pointless diversion that has nothing to do with the Pens getting a new arena. So don't sweat it.


You are so full of misinformation it is pointless to address your claims. I guess TV and radio broadcasting is another one of your areas of expertise, just like commercial real estate. The Pirates don't get any $$$ from Giant Eagle for radio and TV commercials. KDKA and FSN pay the Pirates a fixed rights fee to broadcast their games. They (KDKA & FSN, not the Pirates) sell ad time to sponsors like Giant Eagle and keep the revenue.

I'm not going to bother googling the PNC contract for naming rights at PNC Park. Off the top of my head it was probably between $1.5M to $2.5M per year. All other sponsorships fall in behind that since the value of PNC being mentioned in PNC Park is infinitely more than in stadium signage, program ads, game day sponsorship, etc. That fee also includes any in stadium signage PNC has, the sign on the outside of the park seen by tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people every day... Giant Eagle doesn't trump PNC in Pirates sponsorship value. Do you have any other questions?


And this information is GOLD because it comes off the top of your head? Weren't you the one demanding proof from non-existent press releases?

Where is it written that no one can spend more than the company that purchased naming rights? Other companies are involved in many more ways as the years go on. The naming rights deals were locked in eight or nine years ago.

Sorry, no, the Pirates DO get revenue from advertising on the radio broadcasts and it's tied into the other things that sponsors do with the franchise. It's called synergy.

You keep an eye on things here, OK? I'm gonna go burn a cross on the lawn at Station Square.


Keep burying yourself. I did not erroneously guess the value as you did with Giant Eagle. I knew it from reading about it a few years ago:

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/stadiumnames.html

It turns out the midpoint of my range was the exact value. The naming rights and associated signage are more valuable than other sponsorships because they reach a much wider audience than the in stadium crowd. That is sports marketing 101.

You should put your marketing plan together and pitch it to the Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins. I'm sure they will be very interested to hear how you will get them multi-million dollar sponsorships with your synergistic plans. Don't call Giant Eagle though. They would not want to hear how you would spend millions of dollars on things they are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for right now.


You're a funny one. You keep insisting naming rights are the biggest investment from the corporate community. When they buy naming rights, they buy them for a long time. The amount is locked in. Things change over the course of time. Other companies have a need to get involved on a large scale, which is what's happened with Giant Eagle. Giant Eagle spends in seven figures on the Pirates and has for at least a decade. That's a fact, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. It's also a fact that Giant Eagle spends nothing on the Pens.

But, of course, you have a table of naming rights values, which proves nothing.

If you really care about this issue, you'd do well to make some calls or send some e-mails. Contact the Penguins and ask them what's the most effective thing fans can do help the cause. Ask the same question of Bill Peduto at City Council and State Sens. Fontana and Logan. Maybe it's as simple as the 1960s concept of stuffing envelopes or doing some other grunt work. But at least you'd be doing something that would actually assist the cause for a new arena.

Boycotting Station Square and changing party affilation to vote against Rendell in the primary are completely futile gestures.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to stand on the Smithfield Street Bridge and flip the bird to Station Square for eight hours. That'll show 'em.



I should have known better than to respond to your nonsensical posts when you claimed a stop loss strategy for Forest City would be to lease prime retail space as storage space. I should have know better when you thought the Pirates received ad revenue from Giant Eagle instead of rights fees from their broadcasters.

There are basic principles of sports marketing. Once of them is naming rights and the associated signage are the highest value sponsorships. Here is a quote from a trade publication:

“Owners started to realize the opportunity for a new revenue stream by allowing brands to create a whole new leverage point with sports leagues and sports properties. Naming the venue capitalizes on the media that surrounds sports,â€￾ said Yowell, whose Los Angeles-based company has negotiated several such deals. “It is the most coveted asset and the highest-yielding revenue stream.â€￾

http://www.brandchannel.com/features_effect.asp?pf_id=95

If you continue to insist the Pirates are getting some imaginary multi-million dollar sponsorship payment from Giant Eagle, Forest City will convert Station Square Shops into a large storage facility, and the Pirates get revenue from Giant Eagle ads on FSN and KDKA we will disagree.

The Pens already have told their fans what to do to help their arena cause. The plan is on their website. If you were a season ticket holder you would have received a form letter from Ken Sawyer a few weeks ago detailing their plan. I'm not surprised you didn't receive one.
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Postby Marshall Dylan on Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:58 am

passmaster16 wrote:

If you really care about this issue, you'd do well to make some calls or send some e-mails. Contact the Penguins and ask them what's the most effective thing fans can do help the cause. Ask the same question of Bill Peduto at City Council and State Sens. Fontana and Logan. Maybe it's as simple as the 1960s concept of stuffing envelopes or doing some other grunt work. But at least you'd be doing something that would actually assist the cause for a new arena.

Boycotting Station Square and changing party affilation to vote against Rendell in the primary are completely futile gestures.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to stand on the Smithfield Street Bridge and flip the bird to Station Square for eight hours. That'll show 'em.


I've asked the question to the state sens and they all say the same thing...to keep pressure on Rendell, Oconnor and Onorato.

Fontana:
Thank you for communicating to me your thoughts on the need for a new
arena, the future of the Pittsburgh Penguins, and the Isle of Capri
Casino Plan.

It is important to the region, including the City of Pittsburgh, that we
retain the Penguins in the city. The Penguins have not asked for state
money; instead, their plan revolves around getting the slots license.
That being said, the State Senate has no vote in that decision, but its
members can certainly have an impact, as can you.

Just recently, I introduced legislation asking the Gaming Board to take
into consideration whether a casino plan includes funding for an arena
when making their decision regarding the slots license. Senators Costa
and Logan have signed on as co-sponsors on this bill. It is my hope
that this bill will be one more tool to ensure that the decision that
the Gaming Board makes is one that best for the City and region.

Together, I believe we can do what is necessary to keep the Penguins in
Pittsburgh. Again, thank you for your communication. I look forward to
hearing from you on this and other issues that are of importance to you.

Logan:

Thanks for your email concerning the Pens. I share your same concerns.
I am very supportive of keeping the Penguins in Pittsburgh and will do
all that I can to achieve that goal. I believe that whoever receives
the City of Pittsburgh Slots License should contribute towards the
construction of a new arena. In fact, I cosponsored legislation
introduced by Senator Wayne Fontana that would ensure that any slots
proposal that has an arena component is strongly considered. The
Penguins Slots Proposal is very thorough and would greatly help Uptown
if awarded and will do all that I can to make sure it is considered by
the Gaming Board.

Pippy:

Thank you for contacting me in support of funding for the development of a new arena in the City of Pittsburgh. As you may know, discussions with officials at the state and county levels are underway in order to determine the potential availability of gaming or alternative funds for this project. I believe that it is very important that the Penguins remain in Pittsburgh, as the team is a vital regional asset. In addition, the Civic Arena is a facility that is used by a wide variety of organizations throughout the year. The cumulative economic impact of these events generates a significant amount of revenue for the local market. In light of this, I have publicly endorsed the Penguins’ partnership with Isle of Capri Casinos in their efforts to secure a gaming license. Not only does their proposal allow the Penguins to remain in Pittsburgh, but it also would provide funding for future downtown development and revitalization. Thank you again for sharing your thoughts on this matter.

Burn:

Thanks for the E-mail. I do in fact publicly support the Capri Plan, but
my e-mail address appears on the wrong side of the various web pages
regarding this issue despite my requests to have it moved. Please make
your voice heard in April when the gaming board arrives in town.

Orie:

you and I are on the same page!!! The Penquins proposal is a
WIN-WIN FOR PENQUINS AND THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH AND THE REGION!!!!! THIS
ENTIRE PROCESS WITH GAMING LICENSES HAS ME VERY
CONCERNED----------------I HEAR THE SAME RUMORS YOU HAVE
HEARD---------------------I HOPE THE PENQUINS PREVAIL!!!!!! THANKS FOR
YOUR EMAIL---IT IS RIGHT ON POINT AND VERY POWERFUL!!! KEEP THE PRESSURE
ON MAYOR---COUNTY EXECUTIVE ONORATO AND GOVERNOR!!!!

Wagner:

This is just a short note to thank you for your recent e-mail communication and comments related to keeping the Pittsburgh Penguins in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We could also significantly reduce the public cost of a new arena by requiring the recipient of the slots license to fund the project.

I appreciate your kind remarks and look forward to your continued support toward that goal.


...So there you have it...rather than just talking, why don't you begin to do your part to help the cause? To this point you have offered nothing other than negative input regarding topics I highly doubt you specialize in. Read through these messages and tell me what else can be done to help this team...Or do you even really care about this issue or about this team? If you don't, why are you here?



No....you asked where they stand and told them your views. So? Ask them what you can DO to help the cause. Ask the Penguins the same thing.

I'll bet none of them suggests boycotting Station Square.
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Posts: 1,142
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:54 pm

Postby Marshall Dylan on Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:07 am

Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:Have you seen the signage at PNC Park and Heinz Field? Have you seen the ads in the programs for the Pirates and Steelers? Have you seen how many promotional days/nights Giant Eagle underwrites for the Pirates? Have you seen and heard the Giant Eagle commercials on Pirates' radio and TV broadcasts?

The relationships with Giant Eagle are worth millions to those two franchises. I don't know why Giant Eagle would issue a press release announcing how much they'd spent, but a lot of what you're saying isn't terribly logical.

Oh and, by the way, here's how much Giant Eagle spends on the Penguins: $0.00. I'm guessing -- just a guess, mind you -- the Penguins could use that money more than the Steelers.

OK, now I'm going to go spray paint "666" on all the walls at Station Square and make the landlord a pariah.


Logic 101. Heinz has naming rights for the stadium which is mentioned an infinite number of times on TV. That is much more valuable than in stadium signage or game program ads. Heinz has a huge sign on the outside of the stadium facing downtown Pittsburgh. That is seen every day by hundreds of thousands of people. Heinz has the red zone signage inside the stadium. It is the most prominent in-stadium signage by far and also is mentioned over the PA system when the Steelers are in the red zone so it isn't some innocuous sign that may or may not be recognized by stadium patrons. With all that Heinz still isn't spending $3M per year. That is a fact, not my opinion. I never buy a program, as many Steeler fans don't. Those ads are seen by far less than the 65K in attendance and are worth much less than Heinz being mentioned on TV. For all I know Heinz has ads in the program too. Either way, the value of Giant Eagle's exposure to the 65K in attendance is far less than Heinz and that doesn't even account for the fact that Giant Eagle is not mentioned to the large local TV/radio audience for regular season games and the national audience Heinz gets for SNF/MNF/home playoff games. There is no way he value of Giant Eagle's in stadium signage (much smaller than Heinz by the way) remotely approaches the value of Heinz's naming rights, inside signage, and outside signage facing downtown Pittsburgh.

Great job, now this thread has nothing to do with a new Pens arena. Maybe Giant Eagle will give the Pens a few hundred K next season when CP is gone.


All that speculative blather and not one word about the Pirates? Way to ignore most of the issue.

BTW, this thread is about boycotting Station Square, a silly and pointless diversion that has nothing to do with the Pens getting a new arena. So don't sweat it.


You are so full of misinformation it is pointless to address your claims. I guess TV and radio broadcasting is another one of your areas of expertise, just like commercial real estate. The Pirates don't get any $$$ from Giant Eagle for radio and TV commercials. KDKA and FSN pay the Pirates a fixed rights fee to broadcast their games. They (KDKA & FSN, not the Pirates) sell ad time to sponsors like Giant Eagle and keep the revenue.

I'm not going to bother googling the PNC contract for naming rights at PNC Park. Off the top of my head it was probably between $1.5M to $2.5M per year. All other sponsorships fall in behind that since the value of PNC being mentioned in PNC Park is infinitely more than in stadium signage, program ads, game day sponsorship, etc. That fee also includes any in stadium signage PNC has, the sign on the outside of the park seen by tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people every day... Giant Eagle doesn't trump PNC in Pirates sponsorship value. Do you have any other questions?


And this information is GOLD because it comes off the top of your head? Weren't you the one demanding proof from non-existent press releases?

Where is it written that no one can spend more than the company that purchased naming rights? Other companies are involved in many more ways as the years go on. The naming rights deals were locked in eight or nine years ago.

Sorry, no, the Pirates DO get revenue from advertising on the radio broadcasts and it's tied into the other things that sponsors do with the franchise. It's called synergy.

You keep an eye on things here, OK? I'm gonna go burn a cross on the lawn at Station Square.


Keep burying yourself. I did not erroneously guess the value as you did with Giant Eagle. I knew it from reading about it a few years ago:

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/stadiumnames.html

It turns out the midpoint of my range was the exact value. The naming rights and associated signage are more valuable than other sponsorships because they reach a much wider audience than the in stadium crowd. That is sports marketing 101.

You should put your marketing plan together and pitch it to the Steelers, Pirates, and Penguins. I'm sure they will be very interested to hear how you will get them multi-million dollar sponsorships with your synergistic plans. Don't call Giant Eagle though. They would not want to hear how you would spend millions of dollars on things they are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for right now.


You're a funny one. You keep insisting naming rights are the biggest investment from the corporate community. When they buy naming rights, they buy them for a long time. The amount is locked in. Things change over the course of time. Other companies have a need to get involved on a large scale, which is what's happened with Giant Eagle. Giant Eagle spends in seven figures on the Pirates and has for at least a decade. That's a fact, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. It's also a fact that Giant Eagle spends nothing on the Pens.

But, of course, you have a table of naming rights values, which proves nothing.

If you really care about this issue, you'd do well to make some calls or send some e-mails. Contact the Penguins and ask them what's the most effective thing fans can do help the cause. Ask the same question of Bill Peduto at City Council and State Sens. Fontana and Logan. Maybe it's as simple as the 1960s concept of stuffing envelopes or doing some other grunt work. But at least you'd be doing something that would actually assist the cause for a new arena.

Boycotting Station Square and changing party affilation to vote against Rendell in the primary are completely futile gestures.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to stand on the Smithfield Street Bridge and flip the bird to Station Square for eight hours. That'll show 'em.



I should have known better than to respond to your nonsensical posts when you claimed a stop loss strategy for Forest City would be to lease prime retail space as storage space. I should have know better when you thought the Pirates received ad revenue from Giant Eagle instead of rights fees from their broadcasters.

There are basic principles of sports marketing. Once of them is naming rights and the associated signage are the highest value sponsorships. Here is a quote from a trade publication:

“Owners started to realize the opportunity for a new revenue stream by allowing brands to create a whole new leverage point with sports leagues and sports properties. Naming the venue capitalizes on the media that surrounds sports,â€￾ said Yowell, whose Los Angeles-based company has negotiated several such deals. “It is the most coveted asset and the highest-yielding revenue stream.â€￾

http://www.brandchannel.com/features_effect.asp?pf_id=95

If you continue to insist the Pirates are getting some imaginary multi-million dollar sponsorship payment from Giant Eagle, Forest City will convert Station Square Shops into a large storage facility, and the Pirates get revenue from Giant Eagle ads on FSN and KDKA we will disagree.

The Pens already have told their fans what to do to help their arena cause. The plan is on their website. If you were a season ticket holder you would have received a form letter from Ken Sawyer a few weeks ago detailing their plan. I'm not surprised you didn't receive one.


Yes, the naming rights will represent the biggest ONE-TIME commitment. Heinz paid $57 million dollars.

That does not preclude anyone else from paying more than $1 million a year for other considerations, like signage, sponsorships and advertising. Why can't you grasp the concept?

My source on whether the Pirates get broadcast ad revenue from Giant Eagle is Marc Garda, Director of Broadcasting for the Pirates. And your source is...?

Ken Sawyer sends out a lot of form letters. A fan really dedicated to helping the cause wants to do more and will volunteer to do whatever they can to help the Pens in a hands-on manner. If you want to help, do something that will actually matter.

The problem with the Pens is they are not getting the message out beyond their relatively small audience. Most people don't listen to their broadcasts, most people don't visit/post here and most people don't see the stuff they show on the video board at the Arena.

That's why I suggest contacting Peduto and the State Senators....not to air an opinion or ask them to reaffirm their stated support, but to ask what people can actually DO to help the cause. This is a crisis.

Posting here to fewer than 400 registered members isn't going to get it done, and neither is boycotting Station Square.
Marshall Dylan
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