Have you stopped patronizing station square yet?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Postby pens9192 on Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:27 am

I think the Station Square proposal is terrible just because of the infrastructure. No way can 837 through that area support that kind of traffic, unless the proposal address the traffic issue and I didn't see it?
pens9192
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:27 pm

Postby netwolf on Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:06 am

pens9192 wrote:I think the Station Square proposal is terrible just because of the infrastructure. No way can 837 through that area support that kind of traffic, unless the proposal address the traffic issue and I didn't see it?


I don't believe it does. They'll want tax money to make infrastructure imporivements and if they don't get it, the traffic nightmares will stop people from going there...
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,378
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:04 am

Postby passmaster16 on Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:54 am


I'll bet none of them suggests boycotting Station Square.


I never suggested that boycotting Station Square would help. And if you would read what I provided, you would notice where it is mentioned about attending the board hearings and putting pressure on Rendell, Oconnor, and Onorato. Learn to read before you respond. And you didn't answer my question. Why are you here? And do you care about this team? Because I'm sure if you did, then you would take your own advice and do something productive to help rather than coming on a board with 300 people and starting flame wars.
passmaster16
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,578
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:42 pm
Location: West Mifflin, PA

Postby passmaster16 on Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:57 am

I don't believe it does. They'll want tax money to make infrastructure imporivements and if they don't get it, the traffic nightmares will stop people from going there...


Well I'm sure they will ask for money just as the IoC would need money to make improvements...but, I don't see how you can make 837 any better. It's not like there is room to expand it to two lanes each direction.
passmaster16
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,578
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:42 pm
Location: West Mifflin, PA

Postby NIN on Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:01 am

passmaster16 wrote:
I don't believe it does. They'll want tax money to make infrastructure imporivements and if they don't get it, the traffic nightmares will stop people from going there...


Well I'm sure they will ask for money just as the IoC would need money to make improvements...but, I don't see how you can make 837 any better. It's not like there is room to expand it to two lanes each direction.


It's impossible. It's already a snail crawl. Add a ton more traffic through the tunnel (and by the grace of God we all know how old slots ladies drive through tunnels.....), from Carson street, and even down the hill from ghetto ass Allentown! Then you got people going into town just to go OUT of town via the Smithfield St. bridge.

it's a nightmare! :twisted:
NIN
 

Postby Peter on Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:13 am

passmaster16 wrote:

I'll bet none of them suggests boycotting Station Square.


I never suggested that boycotting Station Square would help. And if you would read what I provided, you would notice where it is mentioned about attending the board hearings and putting pressure on Rendell, Oconnor, and Onorato.
Learn to read before you respond.



But that's what this whole thread is about - boycotting SS. So I can see how he thought you were implying that.

Why are you here? And do you care about this team?


Here we go, as if all of us have the desire to use all our spare time in saving the pens. Or that we are bad fans if we have other things to do. We all appriciate what everyone is doing, but don't start the lecture please.
Peter
 

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:24 am

Peter wrote:
Here we go, as if all of us have the desire to use all our spare time in saving the pens. Or that we are bad fans if we have other things to do. We all appriciate what everyone is doing, but don't start the lecture please.


There it is in a nutshell folks. Don't waste your time with Peter. He doesn't plan on being a Pittsburgh resident for long and doesn't care if the franchise stays in Pittsburgh or not. Therefore he's not in the target audience. Hell, I'll bet he's not even a registered voter.

As for everyone else. Exposing Forest Citys rhetoric and misinformation for what it is, and applying pressure to FC in all legal ways possible, is important to advance the *best* proposal for the local Pittsburgh community. If that proposal ends up being FC, good for Forest City, but let's make sure that the License applicants are evaluated on the merits of their respective proposals, not misinformation and political connections.

BtW Peter, what do you do for a living? Where did you graduate H.S. (Assuming you did graduate) and where do you expect to make your home five years from now?

Please note: No where in this post are the Pens mentioned. The best proposal for Pittsburgh should be selected. Period.
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Postby Draftnik on Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:58 am

Marshall Dylan wrote:
Yes, the naming rights will represent the biggest ONE-TIME commitment. Heinz paid $57 million dollars.

That does not preclude anyone else from paying more than $1 million a year for other considerations, like signage, sponsorships and advertising. Why can't you grasp the concept?

My source on whether the Pirates get broadcast ad revenue from Giant Eagle is Marc Garda, Director of Broadcasting for the Pirates. And your source is...?

Ken Sawyer sends out a lot of form letters. A fan really dedicated to helping the cause wants to do more and will volunteer to do whatever they can to help the Pens in a hands-on manner. If you want to help, do something that will actually matter.

The problem with the Pens is they are not getting the message out beyond their relatively small audience. Most people don't listen to their broadcasts, most people don't visit/post here and most people don't see the stuff they show on the video board at the Arena.

That's why I suggest contacting Peduto and the State Senators....not to air an opinion or ask them to reaffirm their stated support, but to ask what people can actually DO to help the cause. This is a crisis.

Posting here to fewer than 400 registered members isn't going to get it done, and neither is boycotting Station Square.


Naming rights fees are not paid in lump sums. They are annual commitments. They are the largest annual corporate sponsorship commitment. Signage inside a stadium is worth a fraction of that.

Now you start making up stuff about sources when your nonsensical posts about leasing retain space for storage and teams getting advertising revenue off broadcasts they sold for rights fees is exposed.

You know nothing about the form letters Ken Sawyer sends out because they go out to season ticket holders. That is the ultimate form of support to the Pens, but it is obviously you don't receive them. If you supported the Pens and their cause and followed the plan you would already have connected many politicians and received their response as I have. It is similar to the responses posted above. Shockingly none of the politicians advocated a direct mail campaign with ~ 1% response rate or competing with Girl Scouts doing door-to-door solicitations.
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Postby Peter on Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:48 pm

The first person using all of their spare time on saving the pens let me know.

I don't think many people are going to leave Pittsburgh just because the Penguins aren't here.

I'm sorry that I don't eat, breathe and sleep penguins. Lock me up.
Peter
 

Postby passmaster16 on Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:30 pm

Here we go, as if all of us have the desire to use all our spare time in saving the pens. Or that we are bad fans if we have other things to do. We all appriciate what everyone is doing, but don't start the lecture please.


Nobody is forcing you or anybody else to help save the pens. You have free will to do whatever you want. If you don't want to help, that is perfectly fine...But don't stick your nose into threads that involve the idea of helping just to stir the pot. You have the right to disagree with my opinion just like I have the right to support this team. But I'm sure you're smart enough to understand that you are in the minority on this board in terms of doing anything it takes to allow the team to stay here. So with that being said, you can expect disagreement with your point of view. It's not an indictment on you or anybody else. It's simply a disagreement.

Personally, I'm a very busy person, and in a lot of ways I can't contribute to the cause as much as other people can. But I have some free time in my day to take a few minutes to write emails and send letters to the individuals who have the ability to impact the decision. I have posted the results of that correspondence in this thread. Does that make me any better than anybody else? No, but I'm not going to involve myself in being negative towards people who are trying to help. As EPP said, the goal is to expose the misinformation to give the best plan an opportunity to win...not because of the campaign contributions or dirty politics, but because it is the best plan. And as hard as it is for me to admit, if Forest City is truly substantially better for the region, then it should win.
passmaster16
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,578
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:42 pm
Location: West Mifflin, PA

Postby DayWalker on Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:07 pm

I believe that Penguins fans should do everything in their power to help the Penguins.

That said, I believe a boycott of Station Square is stupid. I just don't see what FCE has done to merit such punitive action.

Afterall, Ken Sawyer gave $1,250 to Ed Rendell too. I am guessing it wasn't just for sh*ts and giggles.
DayWalker
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,746
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:53 pm

Peter won't answer basic questions about who he works for or whether or not he intends to even be in Pittsburgh in five years.

That answers a ton of questions right there.
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Postby Peter on Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:11 pm

Why should I relay personal information on a public board. I've been around long enough for some folks to know my story. Curious how everyone has me pegged for a college student passing through.
Peter
 

Postby dboss on Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:15 pm

Peter wrote:Why should I relay personal information on a public board. I've been around long enough for some folks to know my story. Curious how everyone has me pegged for a college student passing through.


Go buy a terrible towel at Station Square bandwagon boy.
dboss
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:33 am
Location: McCandless Twp, PA

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:26 pm

Peter wrote:Why should I relay personal information on a public board. I've been around long enough for some folks to know my story. Curious how everyone has me pegged for a college student passing through.


What a cop out considering the old board isn't available to do searches on anymore.

Just state for the record if you work for Ratner, Forest City or at a Station Square based company. That alone will answer tons of questions won't it.

Also, what harm comes in honestly stating for the record if you even plan on being in Pittsburgh in five years?

It's not like I'm asking you to post you SSAN, Credit card data and Birthdate.

After all, you're more than willing to cast dispersions on other posters and share your opinions, why not share the conflict of interest data as well?
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Postby Peter on Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:49 pm

Fair enough, I've lived in Pgh for 23 of my 25 years. And, yes I plan on being here in 5 years. pm me for credit card info. I'm employed as a teacher.

dboss, I did buy a black Terrible towell in Station square about a month ago.
Peter
 

Postby dboss on Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:13 pm

Peter wrote:Fair enough, I've lived in Pgh for 23 of my 25 years. And, yes I plan on being here in 5 years. pm me for credit card info. I'm employed as a teacher.

dboss, I did buy a black Terrible towell in Station square about a month ago.


Way to be a true Steelers fan and go buy a terrible towel A MONTH AGO when the Steelers were on their playoff run. What a true fan you are! :lol: :lol: :lol:

No wonder you wouldn't do anything necessary to keep the Pens in Pittsburgh, they aren't going to make the playoffs so you don't care.
dboss
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:33 am
Location: McCandless Twp, PA

Postby Marshall Dylan on Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:26 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Marshall Dylan wrote:
Yes, the naming rights will represent the biggest ONE-TIME commitment. Heinz paid $57 million dollars.

That does not preclude anyone else from paying more than $1 million a year for other considerations, like signage, sponsorships and advertising. Why can't you grasp the concept?

My source on whether the Pirates get broadcast ad revenue from Giant Eagle is Marc Garda, Director of Broadcasting for the Pirates. And your source is...?

Ken Sawyer sends out a lot of form letters. A fan really dedicated to helping the cause wants to do more and will volunteer to do whatever they can to help the Pens in a hands-on manner. If you want to help, do something that will actually matter.

The problem with the Pens is they are not getting the message out beyond their relatively small audience. Most people don't listen to their broadcasts, most people don't visit/post here and most people don't see the stuff they show on the video board at the Arena.

That's why I suggest contacting Peduto and the State Senators....not to air an opinion or ask them to reaffirm their stated support, but to ask what people can actually DO to help the cause. This is a crisis.

Posting here to fewer than 400 registered members isn't going to get it done, and neither is boycotting Station Square.


Naming rights fees are not paid in lump sums. They are annual commitments. They are the largest annual corporate sponsorship commitment. Signage inside a stadium is worth a fraction of that.

Now you start making up stuff about sources when your nonsensical posts about leasing retain space for storage and teams getting advertising revenue off broadcasts they sold for rights fees is exposed.

You know nothing about the form letters Ken Sawyer sends out because they go out to season ticket holders. That is the ultimate form of support to the Pens, but it is obviously you don't receive them. If you supported the Pens and their cause and followed the plan you would already have connected many politicians and received their response as I have. It is similar to the responses posted above. Shockingly none of the politicians advocated a direct mail campaign with ~ 1% response rate or competing with Girl Scouts doing door-to-door solicitations.


No, actually, the naming rights are a commitment made in a lump sum figure. Everyone else goes year-to-year depending on their conditions in the market.

I like the way you pick up minor points and try to make them issues. Very disingenous. I suggested that Forest City would be able to rent the space, no matter what tenants comes and go. That's been proven, because the spaces have had many tenants at Station Square. You've somehow spun that into a business plan that makes Station Square a You-Store-It. If that makes you happy, go ahead and confuse the facts.

YOU were the one who said information tables were obsolete in this digital age. I pointed out that most politicians still seek personal contact with voters, even in this digital age. Somehow you've spun that into a suggestion of a door-to-door campaign that I never made.

I cite a source for information about Pirates broadcast rights. You dismiss is it as "made up." OK, whatever you say.

You have no idea how many tickets I buy, so don't make assumptions. Unless you go back to 1975-76 with full season support of the Pens, I have you beat in that department. Yeah, believe it.

I repeat: If people want to help, the best way to do it is to get actual real-life suggestions from the people who are working on behalf of the cause. If you want to pursue silly notions like boycotting Station Square (and what about the other Forest City properties in and around Pittsburgh?) and changing registration to make a protest vote in Rendell's slam-dunk primary win, go ahead.

This thread has degenerated into the usual "you're just a Steelers fan" BS anyway. Which only proves that this group will actually accomplish NOTHING to tangibly help the Pens, other than making a lot of noise.

OK, I'm on my way to Station Square. Gonna pee on their sidewalk. Those lousy pariahs.
Marshall Dylan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,142
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:54 pm

Postby ExPatriatePen on Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:33 pm

Marshall Dylan wrote: I suggested that Forest City would be able to rent the space, no matter what tenants comes and go.


Sometimes they just go... Allegheny Center Mall, The Bank Center, Warner Center... just to name a few.
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Postby Draftnik on Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:25 pm

Marshall Dylan wrote:No, actually, the naming rights are a commitment made in a lump sum figure. Everyone else goes year-to-year depending on their conditions in the market.

I like the way you pick up minor points and try to make them issues. Very disingenous. I suggested that Forest City would be able to rent the space, no matter what tenants comes and go. That's been proven, because the spaces have had many tenants at Station Square. You've somehow spun that into a business plan that makes Station Square a You-Store-It. If that makes you happy, go ahead and confuse the facts.

YOU were the one who said information tables were obsolete in this digital age. I pointed out that most politicians still seek personal contact with voters, even in this digital age. Somehow you've spun that into a suggestion of a door-to-door campaign that I never made.

I cite a source for information about Pirates broadcast rights. You dismiss is it as "made up." OK, whatever you say.

You have no idea how many tickets I buy, so don't make assumptions. Unless you go back to 1975-76 with full season support of the Pens, I have you beat in that department. Yeah, believe it.

I repeat: If people want to help, the best way to do it is to get actual real-life suggestions from the people who are working on behalf of the cause. If you want to pursue silly notions like boycotting Station Square (and what about the other Forest City properties in and around Pittsburgh?) and changing registration to make a protest vote in Rendell's slam-dunk primary win, go ahead.

This thread has degenerated into the usual "you're just a Steelers fan" BS anyway. Which only proves that this group will actually accomplish NOTHING to tangibly help the Pens, other than making a lot of noise.

OK, I'm on my way to Station Square. Gonna pee on their sidewalk. Those lousy pariahs.



Your posts are rife with nonsense about inflated sponsorship fees, sources cited for nonsensical claims 5 posts after you originally make the nonsensical claim, claims about season tickets when you have no idea what season ticket holders like me received a few weeks ago, nonsense about stuffing envolopes and going door to door when anybody that already contract the Pens and local politicians knows what they've suggested...

Naming rights fees are multi year committments paid in annual installments. If you followed sports business you would know that based on the numerous examples of firms that exited their committments due to changed economic circumstances. If you followed sports business you would know that the size of annual naming rights committments made several years ago actually has increased in value relative to the smaller corpotate sponsorships for signage and other lesser in stadium promos because of the .com bust and 9/11. I could go on and on.

This is pointless because you will deny making some nonsensical claim about leasing prime retail space for storage or advocating going door to door to convince people IoC should win the slots license. Go ahead and have the last word because it will be as humerous and incorrect as your first.
Draftnik
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,011
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:52 pm
Location: Peters Twp.

Postby Marshall Dylan on Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:57 pm

Let's see, you're advocating that people boycott Station Square...and that Republicans change their party affiliation to vote against Rendell in the primary....Yeah, those acts of defiance will get a new arena, for sure.

Talk about nonsense, oh, Great Pariah Maker.
Marshall Dylan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,142
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:54 pm

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:34 am

Marshall Dylan wrote:Let's see, you're advocating that people boycott Station Square...and that Republicans change their party affiliation to vote against Rendell in the primary....Yeah, those acts of defiance will get a new arena, for sure.

Talk about nonsense, oh, Great Pariah Maker.


So what do *you* propose we do that will garuantee a new Arena?

Nothing right? Nothing will garuantee a new Arena will it?

These steps, (While the registration one is a bit drastic), will send a message to FC / Ratner and the local politicians. That's not a bad thing.

To take your approach, do you think it's inane to write letters to the politicians? Do you think it's inane to challange them when they appear on local talk shows? Do you feel it's inane to attend the rallies? To post on an internet message board?

It's all a matter of degree isn't it?
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Postby pfim on Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:29 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:Peter won't answer basic questions about who he works for or whether or not he intends to even be in Pittsburgh in five years.

That answers a ton of questions right there.


This is the most ridiculous line of reasoning I've seen here in a while, and that's saying a lot. Especially coming from someone in New York.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:54 pm

pfim wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:Peter won't answer basic questions about who he works for or whether or not he intends to even be in Pittsburgh in five years.

That answers a ton of questions right there.


This is the most ridiculous line of reasoning I've seen here in a while, and that's saying a lot. Especially coming from someone in New York.


You obviously haven't read this thread.

Peter has zero problems with Forest City or Ratner or the way they're going about obtaining the license.

Obviously the first things that come to mind are 1) He has a personal interest in seeing FC / Ratner get the license. 2) He doesn't care because he's not 'invested' in Pittsburgh (He doesn't plan on being here long).

I asked him questions regarding those concerns.

When he replied that he was a school teacher and a longtime Pittsburgh resident, it didn't answer either of my questions directly. But I dropped the issue anyway (To be honest I figured he was either 1) Untruthful 2) to dense to understand the concept of applying pressure to unscrupulous businesses or 3) just stirring up trouble) In any case - I didn't feel it was worth my time to persue the issue.

As for my being from NY. You obviously haven't read any of MY posts.
(Those of you that have - this will be totally redundant and your forgiven for skipping to a more interesting thread)
I'm a third generation Pittsburgher. My family still lives there. My son lives there with my Ex. I graduated H.S. from N.A. in 1975. I spent the next four years in the service. I returned to Pittsburgh in 1979. I went to Pitt from 1979-1982. I left because I couldn't find work there in 1982. I returned in 1985. I left again in 1995 because of a lack of work. I've found great success in NY. I still wish like HELL that I lived in Pittsburgh. I want nothing more than to see Pittsburgh prosper and become regain the economic vitality it had in my youth. I will always be a Pittsburgher.

I often read your posts pfim and I normally respect your opinions, but your coming in late on this thread and making false assumptions.
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Postby Pitts on Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:38 pm

Man, this has been a looooooooooooooooooong thread to get through! All that quoting! :D

And, Peter...a BLACK terrible towel?? What is that Mr. Bandwagon?? :D
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,713
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jasonpens, neophool and 20 guests


e-mail