Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Thread

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Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Thread

Postby Lesky on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:27 am

Image

I took the liberty to start an OFFICIAL thread for all jersey & Pens merchandise discussion.

Customization, stripping, authenticity of jerseys and other Penguins gear discussion & questions.

Much better to keep it all in the same thread for archiving purposes etc.

LETS GO PENS and HAPPY COLLECTING :fist:

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I will also add to the first post a quote of jeffshlys post on the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REEBOK JERSEYS!

jeffshly wrote:You've brought to light in this forum the same questions that I get asked from friends all the time. I'll caution everyone that this post is going to be long, but it'll answer your questions and probably those of many reading this site.

You ordered a Premier Replica jersey. These are the same jerseys available at your local Dick's Sporting Goods for $170 as well. They're made of a lesser grade material than that used on authentic (I'll get to that word in a minute) jerseys. The biggest difference, however, is the lettering. The Penguins used three-layer glacier twill letters on their home and away jerseys for both nameplates and numbers. On the alternate jerseys, the numbers are two-layer and the nameplates are single-layer tackle twill. Premier jerseys use really cheap, single-layer letters and numbers that are printed to look like they're multi-layer, right down to printed stitch marks between "layers." I suspect this is what you have.

The next step up is the Reebok Edge 7231 jersey. This jersey is identifiable by the neon green/yellow ribbon in the neckline. These are known as "retail authentics" or "IndoEdge" jerseys, since they're made in Indonesia. To explain the history, let's take a step back. When Reebok redesigned the hockey jersey as we know it, they created the Edge jersey. This jersey was made of a polyester material that was implemented to wick moisture away from the player's body, keeping them cool and dry during play. The jersey was also tighter to the body than its predecessors to allow the jerseys to be more in contact with a player's body, therefore allowing the jersey to wick the moisture that it came in contact with away. There was one slight problem with this jersey: it didn't work. It actually worked against the players, as there were countless complaints about players having to dump sweat out of their gloves because the jersey actually held moisture inside. After about half a year, the original Edge jerseys (known as Edge 1.0) were scrapped in favor of the Edge 2.0 jerseys. These jerseys were still tight to the body and followed the same cut as the original Edge (Reebok didn't want to scrap the whole design they spent millions on), but they used the same CCM Air-Knit material that's been used on many jerseys since the early-90's, including the CCM 61000 jerseys used immediately prior to the Edge's unveiling.

So back to the 7231 "IndoEdge." Reebok, in an attempt to maximize profits, came up with a jersey of lesser quality material in durability than the Edge 2.0 and are having it made in Indonesia. These "authentics" (word in quotes because they're called "authentics" even though there's nothing "authentic" about them) are sold through the Reebok/Adidas (same company) apparel division. They're not made to withstand the wear and tear of game use, but they're cut using patterns very similar or identical to Edge 2.0 jerseys. Having the same cut, they can use the same lettering kits, and they come with reinforced elbows and shoulders as well as a fight strap. These "retail authentics" sell in the $300-350 range, without lettering, at retail, though you can easily find them at a discount.

The jerseys worn on the ice by the Penguins are Reebok model #7287, known as the Edge 2.0. They feature the Edge cut, the reinforced elbows and shoulders, a fight strap, and the old CCM Air-Knit material. They're made at the old CCM factory in Canada and are sold by Reebok/CCM (again, same company) equipment division. They're not readily available at retail. They, too, sell for $350-ish without lettering, if you can find them, but since they're so hard to find, can rarely be bought at a discount.

As blurryhaze mentioned, House O' Hockey in Murrysville can letter a jersey using the authentic lettering kits (same letters/numbers as are used on Penguins on-ice jerseys). They also have quite an inventory of 7231 IndoEdge jerseys, though in my recent conversations with the owner, I'm told he's working on being able to offer 7287's within the next year. If those jerseys are out of your price range, HoH also sells Premier jerseys with the authentic lettering sewn on in the $200 range. They have a store on eBay, but can also get you whatever you want that may not be listed on their site.

One of my bucket list items is to put together a website showing the differences between replicas, authentics, and Chinese knockoff jerseys using photos from my jersey collection. It's been on my bucket list for quite some time and I'm no closer to doing it now than I was ten years ago (life happens), but I'm happy to send you some pictures (or post them here if I could figure out how) to help answer any questions you may have.

I hope this information helps.
Last edited by Lesky on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Lesky on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:31 am

I´ll start this up with the following question:

From 2007-2008 and to some point the Pens had the following CAPTAINS PATCH:

Image

WHEN did the change to this slightly different looking CAPTAINS PATCH take place?

Image

Looking at this picture from the Rangers game, has the CAPTAINS PATCH really changed? The reason I ask is I am about to send a jersey for customization and want the same captains patch as when they won the cup and not an eventual new one.

Image
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby JarkkoVision on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:07 am

Image

He also wore this patch. I'm not sure when. I didn't pay attention to it much back then. Personally, I like this C better.

To me, the patch looks the same in all three pictures you posted.

As a promotional giveaway the first season Crosby as a captain, it was possibly the first home game that year, fans got this.

Image

The patch is different from the C on the jersey he is holding. I think they went back and forth between them over the years.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Lesky on Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:37 am

Thanks JarkkoVision for that.

I think the C you posted pictures of has not been used during the last 5 years or so, at least not what I have seen during games.

Why does house o hockey use that C still for their Premier jerseys?

Do they want to further separate the Premier from the Indo Edge by using different C PATCH?

Image
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby jeffshly on Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:59 am

Let me first say, Lesky, thanks for introducing this thread and copying my post from another thread at the top. Not only did you make me feel like a star :D , but I also very much look forward to the jersey discussion and to having a point of reference of past discussions.

Onto the questions, I can't give you exact dates on when the Penguins changed the style of the "C" and the "A" on their jerseys without going through a whole bunch of photos of game-worn jerseys, but there was a definite change. Before the move to the Edge jersey, the captain's "C" and alternate captain's "A" on Penguins jerseys looked like this (both from 2002-03):

ImageImage

However, by 2005-06, the letters had changed.

ImageImage

However, JarrkoVision found a posted a picture of Crosby wearing the "older style" letter on his jersey, and though I don't know when that photo was taken, I do know that Crosby wasn't named captain until after the 2006-07 season.

I know that back during this time, the Penguins were going through some changes to the lettering of their jerseys. If you take an early-2000's jersey like the Straka jersey pictured above, the lettering had three layers which consisted of a small black layer sewn onto a medium gold layer sewn onto a large black layer. Black on gold on black, each layer on top of the next (white on black on gold for the black jerseys). Each layer of these letters had its edges exposed, and I was told that this created serious issues with the fraying of the Glacier Twill. Just last weekend, I attended the Pittsburgh Hockey Expo and was able to see a number of game worn jerseys close up and I was shocked at how much the lettering of jerseys from that era had frayed.

To fix this problem, a new style of lettering was created. This is a three-color, two-layer letter that is still used today. The bottom layer is black on road jerseys and white with a gold outer edge on home jerseys. The top layer is nothing more than a thin outline (gold on road jerseys, black on home jerseys) that is centered onto the bottom layer and sewn down. The width of the stitching is the same as the width of the top outline layer, eliminating the fraying problem. This style has been used since, at the very latest, 2005-06.

So why is there a picture of Crosby wearing a captain's "C" after the new style was adopted? Your guess is as good as mine, but jerseys are often damaged and need repaired frequently. Equipment Manager Dana Heinze probably had to replace the "C" on his jersey and grabbed one off his shelf. Believe it or not, the Penguins don't letter their own jerseys. They contract that out to a company called Pro Knitwear in Pittsburgh (before that, Cutting Edge Sports in Woburn, MA, and before that, Century Sports in McMurray, PA. Century actually didn't letter the jerseys either. They contracted an embroidery shop in Avella, PA called NJK Lettering), who takes authentic NHL- and NHLPA-approved lettering kits manufactured in Canada and puts them onto the jerseys per team specs.

Lesky wrote:Why does house o hockey use that C still for their Premier jerseys? Do they want to further separate the Premier from the Indo Edge by using different C PATCH?

Lesky, the authentic lettering kits from Canada are expensive and can take a while for House of Hockey to receive. For jerseys they keep in stock, they'll oftentimes use a slightly different, less expensive, and more readily available lettering kit. They may even make these themselves. The authentic lettering kits, being more expensive, drive up the sale price of the jersey, and HoH has to compete with Dick's and other retail outlets on price, so they're keeping an eye on costs. However, if you're ordering a jersey or having one customized by HoH, all you have to do is ask for an authentic lettering kit and they'll get it for you. Jerseys they currently have on their eBay store show "C's" and "A's" that resemble the older style (Lemieux and Straka jerseys above), but I have personally purchased a few jerseys from them that have the newer-style (Lemieux/Katrina Relief Fund and Gonchar jerseys above) lettering kits. All you have to do is ask.

I hope this info helps, and feel free to fire away with more questions.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Lesky on Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:55 am

jeffshly:

Wow, another amazing reply! Thank you.

With you and blurryhaze312 aboard - we can rest assured that our jersey questions will be answered :thumb:
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I have also bought a 2.0 from jersey baron of the new 3rd jersey.

My question:

Does the Penguins organisation make money on these sales? Or are Reebok and jersey baron keeping all the profit to themselves?
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby sluggermatt15 on Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:45 am

Thank you for creating this thread, Lesky.

I too collect Penguin jerseys. Happy to know there is now a place for such discussion, and that other collectors exist on this board! :)
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Lesky on Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:22 pm

The new 3rd jersey fakes have reached PENNSYLVANIA on ebay of course:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NWT-Sidney-Cros ... 418f598d11
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:04 pm

50 pens points away from getting that classy scarf.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby jeffshly on Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:18 pm

Lesky wrote:jeffshly:

Wow, another amazing reply! Thank you.

With you and blurryhaze312 aboard - we can rest assured that our jersey questions will be answered :thumb:
---

I have also bought a 2.0 from jersey baron of the new 3rd jersey.

My question:

Does the Penguins organisation make money on these sales? Or are Reebok and jersey baron keeping all the profit to themselves?


Thanks again for the kind words, Lesky. Looks like we know where three of jerseybaron's authentic third jerseys went! I bought one as well, then had House of Hockey letter it.

You're asking me to track a money trail here, which I typically don't do outside of my own money! However, given the price that we paid for this jersey, I'd have to think that part of the price for this licensed product that features the Penguins logo has to include a royalty for the Pens and/or the NHL. I'd expect that the royalty(ies) were part of the price that jerseybaron paid for the jerseys when he bought them from Reebok. I can't be sure on any of this, but this is the way it typically goes.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby blurryhaze312 on Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:12 pm

Either of you pick up the STH jersey history book on ebay (if you didn't get one as a STH already)?

I did and love it. I would have liked it to be a bit more historical, including pictures of patches and stuff, but over all I thought it was a really nice piece.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby jeffshly on Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:01 am

blurryhaze312 wrote:Either of you pick up the STH jersey history book on ebay (if you didn't get one as a STH already)?

I did and love it. I would have liked it to be a bit more historical, including pictures of patches and stuff, but over all I thought it was a really nice piece.


Nah, can't say that I did. I can only imagine the wife's reaction, after amassing a closet full of jerseys, to my deciding to buy a book about jerseys! Actually, I never even heard of it. Sounds like an interesting read, though!
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Lesky on Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:27 am

River City Sports sold the 2.0 Edge 7287 a few years back - the model with the Reebok vector logo - years 2007-2011.

Did they sell all sizes = 46-60? Or was it just size 54. 56, 58 and 60?

I missed out on these, and have only seen size 54, 56, 58 and 60 pop up on ebay from time time - thats why I am asking if they had size 46, 50 and 52 for sale as well.

No point in looking for size 46 for example if they were never available at all.

Just as I was looking for the 1995-1996 3rd jersey in size 44, when it DOES NOT EXIST :lol: :face:
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Lesky on Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:56 pm

Let me rephrase my question:

Has anyone seen any size 46 available of the VECTOR logo (years 2007-2011) Edge 2.0 ANYWHERE at ANYTIME?

I am trying to figure out if they exist at all, thanks.

I am contemplating buying a home jersey from Jersey Baron, but would prefer one with the vector reebok logo...
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby KBone on Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:34 pm

Help me out... wasn't in the OP... what is the "Vector" logo?
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby jeffshly on Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:24 am

KBone wrote:Help me out... wasn't in the OP... what is the "Vector" logo?

The Reebok "Vector" logo is the old Reebok logo that appeared on the back of the jersey near the neckline, as pictured here:
Image Image

The "Vector" was replaced by the word "Reebok" to start the 2011-12 season, as pictured here:
Image Image

Lesky wrote:Let me rephrase my question: Has anyone seen any size 46 available of the VECTOR logo (years 2007-2011) Edge 2.0 ANYWHERE at ANYTIME? I am trying to figure out if they exist at all, thanks. I am contemplating buying a home jersey from Jersey Baron, but would prefer one with the vector reebok logo...

Lesky, good luck finding one in a size 46. Remember, the 7287's a just now becoming scarcely available at a very limited number of retail outlets, like jerseybaron. Finding a 7287 that's five years old is going to require more knowledge on where to get them than I have...or a lot of luck. In addition to the jersey being very scarce, many of them were "re-logoed." Some 2013 jerseys, for whatever reason, had vector logos on them, but had the "Reebok" text logo sewn over top of the vector. I never knew this until I bought a game-issued Engelland jersey. I have it hanging in my closet. On the outside, you see the "Reebok" text logo, but on the inside, the vector logo is very plain to see. I don't know how to post my own pictures, but I did find a picture of another jersey where this was done:
Image
Look closely, and you'll see the word "Reebok" is sewn onto a small "logo plate." That "logo plate" is sewn onto a slightly larger one, and that larger one is sewn onto the jersey. That larger "logo plate" is there to cover the vector logo. Most jerseys only have that smaller "logo plate," and I've only seen this on white jerseys, not black ones, though I can't be positive that this wasn't done on black jerseys, too.

However, assuming that to be the case, this tells me that Reebok/CCM might have had a surplus of white jerseys (the Penguins order an extra set of black jerseys for Shirt Off Our Backs Night, so they use more home jerseys), and instead of scrapping them (remember, these weren't available at retail at the time), Reebok/CCM "re-logoed" them. This last sentence is pure speculation, but it makes sense.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Lesky on Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:23 am

Just got a 2.0 edge jersey customized with CROSBY from jersey baron. However I am afraid I made mistake by buying it customized from canada.

See pics below:

The faults is like following: (click on pics to get full image)

1. Unknown grey threads on upper right corner of nameplate - see pic 1
2. Lower left nameplate corner coming loose - see pic 2
3. Almost an inch of the upper nameplate is loose - see pic 3
4. Lower nameplate stitching/sewing going in WAVES with "elevations" or "humps" in some places. Its uneven or patchy when its supposed to be plane - see pic 4

Overall it feels like the stitching could come loose on several places.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Whats your reactions to this? I know nothing about sewing nameplates - only thing I know is that I dont have any other jerseys with these flaws etc.

Should I bring this up with jersey baron? I hate to complain but I am feeling bad about paying 400$ and then get these "errors" :thumbdown:

Thanks for any advice!
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby blurryhaze312 on Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:43 am

Just ask him about it Leaky (I'm leaving that auto correct that my phone did... too funny to change). He seems like a pretty stand up guy, and easy to work with. considering where you live, it might be easier for everyone if you ask him to refund you $20-30 so that you can take it to a local seamstress to repair.

As for a 2.0 in a 46 - River City Sports. You won't find them in the old style with a vector logo though, they simply don't exist. You'll have to find a black vector logo from another collector and strip the wordmark from the one you buy to replace with vector logo.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby jeffshly on Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:29 am

Lesky, my advice would be the same as blurryhaze's: talk to the guy and see if he'll help with a partial refund. But understand I've seen flaws that were more pronounced than the ones you pictured on Penguins game-worn/team-issued jerseys. I think all these flaws are within acceptable tolerances.

Side note: I did notice that, on the Penguins home black Crosby jerseys he has for sale, jerseybaron uses a lettering kit that is slightly different than what is used on the Pens' on-ice jerseys. Comparing close-up photos of the namebar of one of his jerseys and a Crosby gamer, I'm seeing some very subtle differences.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby jeffshly on Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:39 am

The WBS Penguins are selling their game-worn jerseys on eBay right now, in case anyone's interested.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Batman21 on Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:02 pm

I love these threads :-)
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Great58 on Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:35 am

Would the recommendation for an authentic 3rd to buy from Jerseybarron and then have lettering done at HOH?

I was disappointed when my wife got me an authentic Maatta away from HOH for Christmas least season that turned out to be an Indo Edge.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby Inkio on Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:03 am

Great58 wrote:Would the recommendation for an authentic 3rd to buy from Jerseybarron and then have lettering done at HOH?

I was disappointed when my wife got me an authentic Maatta away from HOH for Christmas least season that turned out to be an Indo Edge.


I can't find anything other than a replica 3rd jersey right now. Kind of frustrating.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby jeffshly on Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:31 pm

Great58 wrote:Would the recommendation for an authentic 3rd to buy from Jerseybarron and then have lettering done at HOH?


That's exactly what I did, Great58. I bought a Reebok 7287 Edge 2.0 from JerseyBaron, took it to HoH, and had them letter it. To my knowledge, that's the only way to get an authentic third jersey until the game worn set is made available. However, the owner of the HoH told me he's been able to get authorization to sell 7287 jerseys. I'm not sure when he's going to begin doing so, but if you don't want to pay Jersey Baron's inflated price, I'd recommend checking with HoH first. Ask for Ron when you call.
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Re: Official Pittsburgh Penguins Jersey & Gear Discussion Th

Postby FreeCandy44 on Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:35 pm

I have said it before and ill say it again, HOH does excellent work. I got a Neal #18 with the pro lettering and I love it.
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