Will the Penguins entertain an alternative plan?

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Will the Penguins entertain an alternative plan?

Postby NIN on Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:50 pm

The Penguins are not going to get the slots license. They are more likely to make the playoffs at this point. PLease continue to dream and continue to support their vain efforts (as I will) but it should be 100% clear to all of you that they are out of their league. Whether or not there is a fix and dirty politics is as meaningless as Crosby being called for "diving" when he did'nt. There is a winner and there are 2 losers. The Penguins will be among the losers.

So is that it? No hope at all? According to the Penguins it would cost them too much to hang around and wait for an alternative plan to kick in, even if they were willing to swallow their pride and work one out. No I think the Penguins are perfectly content to move on and the ones they sell the team too will be as content if not more.

If the politicians did somehow produce 300 million and start construction right away the Pens would stay but what are the odds of that?!? I feel it in my gut that next season will be the last season for NHL hockey in the city of Pittsburgh and it is a shame that BOTH parties let it get to this. Neither one is honest to God interested in Pittsburgh first. The Penguins are running a BUSINESS and the politicians are...well..POLITICIANS. They are all doing what they do and we are just helpless spectators in a cold dark world.

I am not giving up, I will carry on just like a soldier who is carrying out orders even though the war ended long ago and nobody told him.
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Postby Peter on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:05 pm

Can someone fill me in? Why is everyone so doom and gloom about the licence all of a sudden?
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Postby NIN on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:10 pm

Peter wrote:Can someone fill me in? Why is everyone so doom and gloom about the licence all of a sudden?



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune ... 23791.html
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Postby randy on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:13 pm

they have an alternate plan. its called toronto (or kansas city, houston, etc.)

These guys arent going to want to lose any more money waiting for this place to get its act together to build another building (theyve been waiting for what 7 years?) when thay can recoup their losses through a sale, or make more elsewhere. This IS a business you know.
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Postby NIN on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:15 pm

Uh Randy, did you read my post? Cause you agreed with me but I don't think you thought I posted what I posted. :?
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Postby skullman80 on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:18 pm

I still think the slot liscense has a chance to go to the IOC. The odds aren't good, but I have seen stranger things happen.
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Postby NIN on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:22 pm

skullman80 wrote:I still think the slot liscense has a chance to go to the IOC. The odds aren't good, but I have seen stranger things happen.


Like what! Dude have you seen a mermaid jump out of the Mon and stop a speeding train from running over a hobo? If you and I are readin the same articles then one of us is completely insane and the last time I checked I was only partially.
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Postby skullman80 on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:25 pm

NIN wrote:
skullman80 wrote:I still think the slot liscense has a chance to go to the IOC. The odds aren't good, but I have seen stranger things happen.


Like what! Dude have you seen a mermaid jump out of the Mon and stop a speeding train from running over a hobo? If you and I are readin the same articles then one of us is completely insane and the last time I checked I was only partially.


It's blind hope more than anything. I just have a glimmer of hope that somehow this will all come out in the end, and Rendell will feel the heat, and the masses will understand what's going on.

Is it likely..nope. I can still dream though..which is what I will do until I see Forest City gets the liscense.

Hopefully, I think it was Onorato the other day said they would have an Alternate plan by the end of March, really means that.
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Postby NIN on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:30 pm

skullman80 wrote:Hopefully, I think it was Onorato the other day said they would have an Alternate plan by the end of March, really means that.


That would indeed be a miracle.
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Postby skullman80 on Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:31 pm

NIN wrote:
skullman80 wrote:Hopefully, I think it was Onorato the other day said they would have an Alternate plan by the end of March, really means that.


That would indeed be a miracle.


I am just *crossing* my fingers.

I just want this to get done..somehow..someway.
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Postby dman66 on Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:46 pm

wow, that is bad. notice how they dont mention the economic impact of the pens leaving pittsburgh. i hope to God they dont leave...
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Postby pitt6687 on Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:30 pm

Do you think they're keeping in mind the fact the Penguins aren't the only party who desperately needs a new arena? If arena plans aren't set in place during the upcoming year, in time for the Pens to stay, the city of Pittsburgh will still have to develop an arena plan sometime in the near future. At least they will if they want to make any money, because as I understand it, no one will want to perform, play, etc. in an environment that is obsolete on so many different levels.

Right?

What do the city and politicians have to gain by letting the Penguins leave town? What would be their motives (aside from personal gain if Forest City is given the license) for losing a professional hockey team that has resided in the city for the past 40 years?
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Postby dboss on Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:33 pm

pitt6687 wrote:Do you think they're keeping in mind the fact the Penguins aren't the only party who desperately needs a new arena? If arena plans aren't set in place during the upcoming year, in time for the Pens to stay, the city of Pittsburgh will still have to develop an arena plan sometime in the near future. At least they will if they want to make any money, because as I understand it, no one will want to perform, play, etc. in an environment that is obsolete on so many different levels.

Right?

What do the city and politicians have to gain by letting the Penguins leave town? What would be their motives (aside from personal gain if Forest City is given the license) for losing a professional hockey team that has resided in the city for the past 40 years?


The one key point that you are missing is that this is a logical argument. The politicians in this area do not use any logic in the decisions they make.
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Re: Will the Penguins entertain an alternative plan?

Postby HomerPenguin on Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:34 pm

Whether they will or won't entertain one AFTER the licensing issue is decided is kind of a moot point. They're not going to talk about it now when that would seriously undercut IoC's case for getting the license. In fact they're more likely to stress the notion that they can't and won't wait around for another plan just to increase sentiment for IoC.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:41 pm

pitt6687 wrote:Do you think they're keeping in mind the fact the Penguins aren't the only party who desperately needs a new arena? If arena plans aren't set in place during the upcoming year, in time for the Pens to stay, the city of Pittsburgh will still have to develop an arena plan sometime in the near future. At least they will if they want to make any money, because as I understand it, no one will want to perform, play, etc. in an environment that is obsolete on so many different levels.


Well, this is one of the best arguements to refute Forest City that you can use. The new Arena *is* going to get done. If not now, in five years from now when the Arena turns 50.

Right?

pitt6687 wrote:What do the city and politicians have to gain by letting the Penguins leave town? What would be their motives (aside from personal gain if Forest City is given the license) for losing a professional hockey team that has resided in the city for the past 40 years?


This is where you have a srious disconnect. IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT"S BEST FOR PITTSBURGH, at least as far as the politicians are concerned.

I know that's hard for those of us with character to understand, it seems so foriegn... but POWER Corrupts! Before you dismiss me as a radical, let me site you some examples.

Do you think for one minute that Dennis Kozlowski cared about TYCO, do you think Ken lay cared about Enron, Hell, Bernard Ebbers built Worldcomm from scratch, but he always put himself before the company.

Pittsburgh politicians are no different.
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:53 pm

The thing I just can't figure out is why Rendell, Onorato and Forest City just didn't hedge their bets by having Forest City tied to an arena, as well. I cannot figure this one out. They clearly have the money, and if they did this folks like us would not have gotten all bent out of shape over this whole thing. At the end of the day, all we want out of this is for the Pens to stay in Pittsburgh. You have to figure that this is what Onorato wants, as well, since he is the guy who will answer to their leaving more than Rendell will. Onorato and OConnor know that there is no benefit to having the Pens leave, after all.

There has got to be more to this whole story than we know. Something had to have happened behind the scenes that really created this major screw-up.
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Postby dboss on Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:02 pm

bill from turtle creek wrote:The thing I just can't figure out is why Rendell, Onorato and Forest City just didn't hedge their bets by having Forest City tied to an arena, as well. I cannot figure this one out. They clearly have the money, and if they did this folks like us would not have gotten all bent out of shape over this whole thing. At the end of the day, all we want out of this is for the Pens to stay in Pittsburgh. You have to figure that this is what Onorato wants, as well, since he is the guy who will answer to their leaving more than Rendell will. Onorato and OConnor know that there is no benefit to having the Pens leave, after all.

There has got to be more to this whole story than we know. Something had to have happened behind the scenes that really created this major screw-up.


I think Ratner will offer funds for an arena. I just don't think they want to foot the bill for the whole thing. They are basically trying to make this a negotiation and they want to profit from it as much as possible. The problem is that after they put up their money the remainder needed will be paid for with tax $$$. The more pressure they face and the more public opinion is slanted towards the IoC plan, the more cash they will throw in. That is just my take on the whole thing based on the 'hints' they have been laying down that they are willing to talk about funding for a new arena. The problem is that Onorato and O'Connor need to take a stand and publicly say that they asked them to fully fund a new arena with all that 'additional' revenue they plan on bringing in to the city, state, etc.
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Postby bill from turtle creek on Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:40 pm

That's the most likely scenario that will have a positive ending to all of this. The realist in me accepts that the Capri plan is not going to win. The Forest City plan isn't what we want, but on paper it isn't garbage, either. Add to that it's political backing, and I just don't see how it won't win, barring some kind of disclosure of all of the backdoor shenanigans. I am hoping that cooler heads prevail here and that a compromise is reached.
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Postby Sleestak on Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:45 pm

I can't believe the doom and gloom. This is one article and there is a YEAR to go!

I really truly don't think IoC just threw this in there and expects to lose! Come on people this isn't the first time they built a casino!

From what I read it seems like there is going to be quite a bit of posturing with figures and what not for a while now. Keep on supporting the IoC plan or it really will be a futile effort.

Let's not go down with the ship. Write your letters, inform every single person you know.

I think there are FAR more supporters than we realize.
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Please stop this

Postby 25+66+22=#1 on Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:23 pm

NIN wrote:The Penguins are not going to get the slots license. They are more likely to make the playoffs at this point. PLease continue to dream and continue to support their vain efforts (as I will) but it should be 100% clear to all of you that they are out of their league. Whether or not there is a fix and dirty politics is as meaningless as Crosby being called for "diving" when he did'nt. There is a winner and there are 2 losers. The Penguins will be among the losers.

So is that it? No hope at all? According to the Penguins it would cost them too much to hang around and wait for an alternative plan to kick in, even if they were willing to swallow their pride and work one out. No I think the Penguins are perfectly content to move on and the ones they sell the team too will be as content if not more.

If the politicians did somehow produce 300 million and start construction right away the Pens would stay but what are the odds of that?!? I feel it in my gut that next season will be the last season for NHL hockey in the city of Pittsburgh and it is a shame that BOTH parties let it get to this. Neither one is honest to God interested in Pittsburgh first. The Penguins are running a BUSINESS and the politicians are...well..POLITICIANS. They are all doing what they do and we are just helpless spectators in a cold dark world.

I am not giving up, I will carry on just like a soldier who is carrying out orders even though the war ended long ago and nobody told him.



I'm not trying to smack around anyone here, but please enough already, Ratner used a ploy (a weak ass one if you ask me) and IOC will fight back. If we as a group keep all this work up and keep recruitnig more people something good is going to happen. Keep fighting!! That defeatist attitude is how a negative snowball runs downhill.
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