Official GDT - Pens @ Jackets - 12/22/16

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Re: Official GDT - Pens @ Jackets - 12/22/16

Postby wondermoose on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:30 am

Okay, I see now. I was in the "Let him play" group before, but I see why every coach has been so hesitant with Pouliot. They may be forced to go through the growing pains at the NHL level now, but if he doesn't turn it around, they really need to just bury him in WBS for a year or two before trying this again.

EDIT: Also, just to be clear, I still think he's got a bright future, but he's played so little hockey the past couple years that it's painfully obvious he is completely out of sync with the game.
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Re: Official GDT - Pens @ Jackets - 12/22/16

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:37 am

pens_CT wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:This may have been Murray's worst performance as a Penguin. I thought he badly played the Hartnell half-breakaway goal, as Pouliot gave Hartnell no room to move further outside, yet Murray left 3/4 of his glove side net wide open. Couple of the quick goals were softies, and giving up 3 quickly like he did isn't the usual Matt Murray putting things behind him.

Any bets on whether Pouliot sits in the press box tomorrow and Ruhwedel is back in the lineup? Two decent games, and then two pretty bad games for Pouliot. Once again, no awareness as he pinches up ice and loses all skating momentum to Scott Hartnell, a lot of dumb, lazy passes or lack of effort. The Pouliot potential train is starting to run out of steam. He's looking like someone who had his development damaged, or just is not going to live up to his draft status.


He looked better when he first came up. Let's not forget he played 34 games that year, that tells you either he WAS better then, or that Bylsma was a complete idiot and shouldn't have had him in the lineup that much.

I'm gonna say he was better then, and only because he actually LOOKED better then. He wasn't afraid to make mistakes then, he played his game. Yes it had mistakes, but it also had slick puck movement, offensive potential, and great possession numbers (in a small sample albeit). Now they've Joe Morrow'd him. The kid looks nothing like he was in 14/15. He's probably wound tighter than a two dollar watch. He fears making mistakes because he's on such a short leash and barely gets an opportunity. Because of this he's not playing his game and concentrating too much on not making mistakes.....and guess what? He makes mistakes even more now!

I don't know exactly what's gone on behind the scenes, and I know he's had some off-ice issues, but the feeling I get is that the Pens may have screwed over his growth as a player and possibly ruined this prospect. Again, I don't know for sure, it's just a feeling I get from what I've read and seen.

I agree 100%. I thought he looked good when he played those 34 games. He still needed some work on defense, but he wasn't horrible. You could see the flow to his game, you could see him looking to produce offense. Now he just looks lost. He's standing around flat footed, and just doesn't look like he can do anything special on the offensive side. I've said multiple times, I think they made him focus on defense so much, they ruined the offensive skill that they drafted him for.

I have that same fear with Daniel Sprong. The kid has so much offensive potential, but they harped so much on his play away from the puck, stuck him on the 4th line, and neutralized his offensive ability. I'm hoping the next time we see him with the Penguins, they don't treat him the same way.


Obviously none of us know the dynamics behind the scene between Pouliot and the organization. I don't think asking a young defenseman to work on his defense is that outlandish of a request. It's great that his strength supposedly is moving the puck, but this isn't juniors and you can't constantly play the position like a fourth forward. The fact that he seemingly can't play to his strengths, while being able to make smart quick decisions in his own end speaks to his lack of ability as the main problem.

It's not outlandish at all to ask him to work on his defense. What I'm not too sure of how they go about doing that, and is it effective....because it doesn't always seem to work out (Morrow, Despres, now Pouliot). Pouliot is now at a point where his defense still sucks, and the offense they drafted him for isn't visible either.

Now, on the flip side, you look at someone like Schultz. He was completely broken and confidence shot when he got here. They pretty much stripped him down, started over from the defensive side out. It took him awhile, as the first month, month and a half, his offense wasn't there.....mainly because he was focusing on defense first. But Schultz had said mid-November that he has the confidence in his defense now to let his offense side come out more. And it has been over the last few weeks.

Was that same process used with Pouliot? I don't know. Maybe it was, and Pouliot just couldn't let go of trying to be a point producing guy, so he isn't working enough on the defense. Maybe they did follow that same process, and Pouliot just can't put it together, or isn't putting in the same level of effort that Schultz did.

All I know is Pouliot looks further away from being the guy they drafted than he did a year or so ago. He seems to have gotten worse.
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Re: Official GDT - Pens @ Jackets - 12/22/16

Postby Great58 on Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:50 pm

FLPensFan wrote:It's not outlandish at all to ask him to work on his defense. What I'm not too sure of how they go about doing that, and is it effective....because it doesn't always seem to work out (Morrow, Despres, now Pouliot). Pouliot is now at a point where his defense still sucks, and the offense they drafted him for isn't visible either.

Now, on the flip side, you look at someone like Schultz. He was completely broken and confidence shot when he got here. They pretty much stripped him down, started over from the defensive side out. It took him awhile, as the first month, month and a half, his offense wasn't there.....mainly because he was focusing on defense first. But Schultz had said mid-November that he has the confidence in his defense now to let his offense side come out more. And it has been over the last few weeks.

Was that same process used with Pouliot? I don't know. Maybe it was, and Pouliot just couldn't let go of trying to be a point producing guy, so he isn't working enough on the defense. Maybe they did follow that same process, and Pouliot just can't put it together, or isn't putting in the same level of effort that Schultz did.

All I know is Pouliot looks further away from being the guy they drafted than he did a year or so ago. He seems to have gotten worse.


Do you think the Penguins had enough time with Morrow to have impaired his development? Not even a full season at WBS before being dealt to the Stars.

I ask because while three poor development outcomes is a trend, two bad outcomes could be more easily attributed to issues specific to the individual players, and not the system. Morrow hasn't exactly flourished outside of the Pens influence, and we unfortunately will likely never know where Despres would have ended up. And Maatta and Domoulin have been successfully drafted and implemented into the NHL, so while they are different styles of players, it's not like all the Pens recent defensive draft picks aren't developing.
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Re: Official GDT - Pens @ Jackets - 12/22/16

Postby penny lane on Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:04 pm

Dear God bring back Kristopher Letang early~ I promise to never - ever complain about him again. Ever.
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Re: Official GDT - Pens @ Jackets - 12/22/16

Postby no name on Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:36 pm

I think the pens need to cut ties with Pouliot. In our system we just haven't reached him. Maybe its the system or our coaches. But something is missing there. We might be best served to trade him for a real 7th defenseman. A veteran type who we can call on who can provide a steady hand when one of our top 6 go down. For a playoff run this is a real need. Although Pouliots value right now is as low as its going to be, so maybe we should wait to move him.

I wouldn't mind Luke Scheen from Phoenix for Pouliot at this point, straight up.
Maybe a multiplayer deal including Fleury to Dallas. if we can get Oduya or Hamhius included in the deal to have insurance come playoff time.
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Re: Official GDT - Pens @ Jackets - 12/22/16

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:11 pm

Great58 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:It's not outlandish at all to ask him to work on his defense. What I'm not too sure of how they go about doing that, and is it effective....because it doesn't always seem to work out (Morrow, Despres, now Pouliot). Pouliot is now at a point where his defense still sucks, and the offense they drafted him for isn't visible either.

Now, on the flip side, you look at someone like Schultz. He was completely broken and confidence shot when he got here. They pretty much stripped him down, started over from the defensive side out. It took him awhile, as the first month, month and a half, his offense wasn't there.....mainly because he was focusing on defense first. But Schultz had said mid-November that he has the confidence in his defense now to let his offense side come out more. And it has been over the last few weeks.

Was that same process used with Pouliot? I don't know. Maybe it was, and Pouliot just couldn't let go of trying to be a point producing guy, so he isn't working enough on the defense. Maybe they did follow that same process, and Pouliot just can't put it together, or isn't putting in the same level of effort that Schultz did.

All I know is Pouliot looks further away from being the guy they drafted than he did a year or so ago. He seems to have gotten worse.


Do you think the Penguins had enough time with Morrow to have impaired his development? Not even a full season at WBS before being dealt to the Stars.

I ask because while three poor development outcomes is a trend, two bad outcomes could be more easily attributed to issues specific to the individual players, and not the system. Morrow hasn't exactly flourished outside of the Pens influence, and we unfortunately will likely never know where Despres would have ended up. And Maatta and Domoulin have been successfully drafted and implemented into the NHL, so while they are different styles of players, it's not like all the Pens recent defensive draft picks aren't developing.


Didn't the Pens admit to breaking down his whole game and needing to rebuild it? Didn't work well.
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Re: Official GDT - Pens @ Jackets - 12/22/16

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:15 pm

no name wrote:I think the pens need to cut ties with Pouliot. In our system we just haven't reached him. Maybe its the system or our coaches. But something is missing there. We might be best served to trade him for a real 7th defenseman. A veteran type who we can call on who can provide a steady hand when one of our top 6 go down. For a playoff run this is a real need. Although Pouliots value right now is as low as its going to be, so maybe we should wait to move him.

I wouldn't mind Luke Scheen from Phoenix for Pouliot at this point, straight up.
Maybe a multiplayer deal including Fleury to Dallas. if we can get Oduya or Hamhius included in the deal to have insurance come playoff time.


You trade Pouliot for Schenn, you run the risk of losing him to Vegas no? He could be a cheap addition for them in that he makes 1.5 million.
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