Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Daniel on Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:57 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:The problem is still what others have said from this summer. "What if Sid or Geno get hurt and we still don't have a 3C". Well it has happened, and now its hard to see how this will be fixed. I am beginning to wish they had just re-signed Bones at this point. Rutherford waited too long.

From what I have heard, resigning Bonino wasn't really an option. Nashville offered him the 2C spot, and he wanted the elevated role. Same money and term on the table and he still probably would have chosen Nashville. Now, they brought in Turris and he's back to 3C or even worse for him, wing.

I'd still like to see a Reinhart, Bennett, Shore, Faksa a type if possible. A young guy who They control as RFA for a bit and then can sign long term.


What are your thoughts on Guentzel as 3C until the end of December, with Sheahan as 4C and bring up one of the WBS kids to give a bit of a boost? Small shakeup, but might be worth a look.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:44 pm

Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby pens_CT on Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:47 pm

Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa


Does it really matter who is in the bottom six when 87, 71, and 58 continue to play well below their standards?
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Puck-Lurker on Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:33 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa


Does it really matter who is in the bottom six when 87, 71, and 58 continue to play well below their standards?


I was fine with acquiring Sheahan. I am still fine with it. Let's compare:
- Sheahan with PIT 17-18: 14 games, 1 goal, 3 assists, +1, 55.41 FO%.
- Bonino with NSH 17-18: 10 games, 3 goals, 1 assist, -4, 52.41 FO%
Am I the only one who's fine giving Sheahan half of Bonino's salary?


Sheahan's not the problem right now. Other names should be mentioned. Some players need to get fixed. Crosby, Murray, Letang, others.

And we need some line consistency for the love of the hockey gods. Not set lines, but keep some people together for a while please? We can shake the tree a bit with the WBS guys and place some folks on waivers if we have to.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:57 pm

Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa

I'm willing to give Sheahan a bit more time. Let's remember Justin Schultz didn't come here in 2016 and immediately start playing lights out, awesome hockey. He looked much better defensively than what Edmonton was claiming, but his offensive side didn't really come out until the next season. Schultz mentioned numerous times how his confidence was shot and it took quite awhile working with Gonchar to get his confidence back.

Sheahan has played 14 games as a Penguin. He has 3 points in his last 4 games. He's starting to come around. Let's give him another few weeks before we start claiming he was a horrible acquisition. Even if he doesn't pan out, it was a low cost, and the Penguins aren't committed to anything past this year.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:59 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:The problem is still what others have said from this summer. "What if Sid or Geno get hurt and we still don't have a 3C". Well it has happened, and now its hard to see how this will be fixed. I am beginning to wish they had just re-signed Bones at this point. Rutherford waited too long.

From what I have heard, resigning Bonino wasn't really an option. Nashville offered him the 2C spot, and he wanted the elevated role. Same money and term on the table and he still probably would have chosen Nashville. Now, they brought in Turris and he's back to 3C or even worse for him, wing.

I'd still like to see a Reinhart, Bennett, Shore, Faksa a type if possible. A young guy who They control as RFA for a bit and then can sign long term.


What are your thoughts on Guentzel as 3C until the end of December, with Sheahan as 4C and bring up one of the WBS kids to give a bit of a boost? Small shakeup, but might be worth a look.

It's really hard to say. Can Guentzel do the job? Sure. Is that the best place for him? Not really sure. Hard to gauge when Crosby's line as a whole isn't doing much. If they could get lines 1 and 2 going consistently, and the bottom 6 is still a problem, then yeah, maybe I try it for a week to be able to try and create 3 scoring lines.

But right now, not sure that is the answer. I'd rather see start seeing some WBS guys rotating in, and Archibald rotating in, when guys aren't playing well.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby murphydump55 on Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:05 pm

Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa


I don't recall anyone citing any writers regarding Sheahan. Most of what I read was people's personal opinions.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby murphydump55 on Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:07 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa

I'm willing to give Sheahan a bit more time. Let's remember Justin Schultz didn't come here in 2016 and immediately start playing lights out, awesome hockey. He looked much better defensively than what Edmonton was claiming, but his offensive side didn't really come out until the next season. Schultz mentioned numerous times how his confidence was shot and it took quite awhile working with Gonchar to get his confidence back.

Sheahan has played 14 games as a Penguin. He has 3 points in his last 4 games. He's starting to come around. Let's give him another few weeks before we start claiming he was a horrible acquisition. Even if he doesn't pan out, it was a low cost, and the Penguins aren't committed to anything past this year.


FLPensfan, stop making sense!
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby murphydump55 on Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:09 pm

Puck-Lurker wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa


Does it really matter who is in the bottom six when 87, 71, and 58 continue to play well below their standards?


I was fine with acquiring Sheahan. I am still fine with it. Let's compare:
- Sheahan with PIT 17-18: 14 games, 1 goal, 3 assists, +1, 55.41 FO%.
- Bonino with NSH 17-18: 10 games, 3 goals, 1 assist, -4, 52.41 FO%
Am I the only one who's fine giving Sheahan half of Bonino's salary?


Sheahan's not the problem right now. Other names should be mentioned. Some players need to get fixed. Crosby, Murray, Letang, others.

And we need some line consistency for the love of the hockey gods. Not set lines, but keep some people together for a while please? We can shake the tree a bit with the WBS guys and place some folks on waivers if we have to.



Are Sid and Phil not allowed to play 5 on 5 together? They're not allowed to be on the same line? Is this is the bible or something? I still struggle to figure out why it's never explored more than it was the first week he was traded here.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Daniel on Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:46 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:The problem is still what others have said from this summer. "What if Sid or Geno get hurt and we still don't have a 3C". Well it has happened, and now its hard to see how this will be fixed. I am beginning to wish they had just re-signed Bones at this point. Rutherford waited too long.

From what I have heard, resigning Bonino wasn't really an option. Nashville offered him the 2C spot, and he wanted the elevated role. Same money and term on the table and he still probably would have chosen Nashville. Now, they brought in Turris and he's back to 3C or even worse for him, wing.

I'd still like to see a Reinhart, Bennett, Shore, Faksa a type if possible. A young guy who They control as RFA for a bit and then can sign long term.


What are your thoughts on Guentzel as 3C until the end of December, with Sheahan as 4C and bring up one of the WBS kids to give a bit of a boost? Small shakeup, but might be worth a look.

It's really hard to say. Can Guentzel do the job? Sure. Is that the best place for him? Not really sure. Hard to gauge when Crosby's line as a whole isn't doing much. If they could get lines 1 and 2 going consistently, and the bottom 6 is still a problem, then yeah, maybe I try it for a week to be able to try and create 3 scoring lines.

But right now, not sure that is the answer. I'd rather see start seeing some WBS guys rotating in, and Archibald rotating in, when guys aren't playing well.


I think Guentzel at 3C does two things. Other than the domino effect that moving the lines around would do.

First, it allows the WBS centers to develop another month or Guentzel to show the potential to handle the position full time. This of course presumes that Simon starts to play center more often, DiPauli and Bleuger take advantage of the opportunity. Neither might be 3C, but they can certainly push Sheahan and chip in some scoring on 4C (though Sheahan might develop continue to get better, so this might be win win)

Second, JR creates competition for 3C (and by default 4C) and allow the kids to show him whether or not to make a trade come January.

You might be right, it might end up becoming a mid season trade, but this might avoid that and avoid giving up prospects or picks.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:49 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa


I don't recall anyone citing any writers regarding Sheahan. Most of what I read was people's personal opinions.


Now that's funny! Laughed so hard I almost peed...
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby murphydump55 on Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:51 pm

Jim wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa


I don't recall anyone citing any writers regarding Sheahan. Most of what I read was people's personal opinions.


Now that's funny! Laughed so hard I almost peed...


then I guess you could post them since you remember so well and find it amusing because it was apparently so talked about? Who were the writers?

I remember people on here saying they welcomed him and didn't hate the move, but what writers? I'm honestly asking because I'd like to read these articles now.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:58 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Jim wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa


I don't recall anyone citing any writers regarding Sheahan. Most of what I read was people's personal opinions.


Now that's funny! Laughed so hard I almost peed...


then I guess you could post them since you remember so well and find it amusing because it was apparently so talked about? Who were the writers?

I remember people on here saying they welcomed him and didn't hate the move, but what writers? I'm honestly asking because I'd like to read these articles now.

The only thing I know of is that Mackey was saying the Sheahan move was a done deal 2-3 weeks before it happened. He was the original one that I read that said Sheahan to Pittsburgh would be completed as soon as Athanasiou signed there.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby wondermoose on Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:23 pm

Sheahan is this year's Spaling. He doesn't bring much to the team, but he's not doing anything to hurt it either. Perfectly adequate 4th liner if the Pens want to contend for a championship, but trotting him out as the third line center just ain't going to do it.

One possibility that I don't think people are really considering much is that there simply isn't a trade option that makes this team better, but it's certainly getting to the point where replacing veterans with WBS guys (again) seems like a viable option. What purpose do, well, anyone not named Phil, Sid, Jake, Conor, Patric, or Geno actually serve at this point in time? They're not scoring and they're not defending (or even doing an average job on the PK) anyway.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:47 am

From summertime to training camp, JR was clear that he intended to start all of our young guys in WBS. I can think of about 5 reasons off the top of my head that he would do this. I personally think there is a game # where everything starts to get triggered. MS has been ruthless in the past benching cold players and bringing up the young guns but none of that is happening despite most players being ICE cold. They have to know they need the youth spark again, they clearly aren't idiots.

What that date is for changes I have no idea.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:34 am

wondermoose wrote:Sheahan is this year's Spaling. He doesn't bring much to the team, but he's not doing anything to hurt it either. Perfectly adequate 4th liner if the Pens want to contend for a championship, but trotting him out as the third line center just ain't going to do it.

One possibility that I don't think people are really considering much is that there simply isn't a trade option that makes this team better, but it's certainly getting to the point where replacing veterans with WBS guys (again) seems like a viable option. What purpose do, well, anyone not named Phil, Sid, Jake, Conor, Patric, or Geno actually serve at this point in time? They're not scoring and they're not defending (or even doing an average job on the PK) anyway.


I want to see Sprong up and playing with Sheahan ASAP. If your 3C is going to be a grinding defense first guy you need to offset that with some scoring. My hope is Sheahan covers up some of Sprongs defensive lapses. It should be plan A over any trade.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:51 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
wondermoose wrote:Sheahan is this year's Spaling. He doesn't bring much to the team, but he's not doing anything to hurt it either. Perfectly adequate 4th liner if the Pens want to contend for a championship, but trotting him out as the third line center just ain't going to do it.

One possibility that I don't think people are really considering much is that there simply isn't a trade option that makes this team better, but it's certainly getting to the point where replacing veterans with WBS guys (again) seems like a viable option. What purpose do, well, anyone not named Phil, Sid, Jake, Conor, Patric, or Geno actually serve at this point in time? They're not scoring and they're not defending (or even doing an average job on the PK) anyway.


I want to see Sprong up and playing with Sheahan ASAP. If your 3C is going to be a grinding defense first guy you need to offset that with some scoring. My hope is Sheahan covers up some of Sprongs defensive lapses. It should be plan A over any trade.


Need to move Hags and then this:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Rust-Sheahan-Sprong
Khunhackl-McKegg-Rowney
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:28 pm

DelPen wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
wondermoose wrote:Sheahan is this year's Spaling. He doesn't bring much to the team, but he's not doing anything to hurt it either. Perfectly adequate 4th liner if the Pens want to contend for a championship, but trotting him out as the third line center just ain't going to do it.

One possibility that I don't think people are really considering much is that there simply isn't a trade option that makes this team better, but it's certainly getting to the point where replacing veterans with WBS guys (again) seems like a viable option. What purpose do, well, anyone not named Phil, Sid, Jake, Conor, Patric, or Geno actually serve at this point in time? They're not scoring and they're not defending (or even doing an average job on the PK) anyway.


I want to see Sprong up and playing with Sheahan ASAP. If your 3C is going to be a grinding defense first guy you need to offset that with some scoring. My hope is Sheahan covers up some of Sprongs defensive lapses. It should be plan A over any trade.


Need to move Hags and then this:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel
Rust-Sheahan-Sprong
Khunhackl-McKegg-Rowney


Not a bad start. I cant imagine anyone would be dumb enough to take Hagelin though.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:52 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Jim wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa


I don't recall anyone citing any writers regarding Sheahan. Most of what I read was people's personal opinions.


Now that's funny! Laughed so hard I almost peed...


then I guess you could post them since you remember so well and find it amusing because it was apparently so talked about? Who were the writers?

I remember people on here saying they welcomed him and didn't hate the move, but what writers? I'm honestly asking because I'd like to read these articles now.


You just want to counter my posts so bad that you don't even bother reading them. You are giving Larry a bad name...
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby BurghThing on Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:54 pm

Phil hit the nail on the head in the post game. There are a lot of players on this team who could easily be replaced by AHLers. I wish they would, and soon.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:26 pm

Jim wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Jim wrote:
murphydump55 wrote:
Jim wrote:Everyone was so bubbly and hearts over getting Sheahan before the trade. Whoever writers you all flocked behind on Sheahan... what are they saying now so that you flock again? Or are they all silent on names explaining why none of the LGP experts aren't mentioning anyone specific?


Baaaa


I don't recall anyone citing any writers regarding Sheahan. Most of what I read was people's personal opinions.


Now that's funny! Laughed so hard I almost peed...


then I guess you could post them since you remember so well and find it amusing because it was apparently so talked about? Who were the writers?

I remember people on here saying they welcomed him and didn't hate the move, but what writers? I'm honestly asking because I'd like to read these articles now.


You just want to counter my posts so bad that you don't even bother reading them. You are giving Larry a bad name...


What? I'm asking which writers were writing about Sheahan being a positive addition to the team etc.

That's all. I guess you can dodge it like you are, but you stated it and I'm honestly asking!!
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Steve Dave on Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:22 am

BurghThing wrote:Phil hit the nail on the head in the post game. There are a lot of players on this team who could easily be replaced by AHLers. I wish they would, and soon.

He said that?
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:31 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:From summertime to training camp, JR was clear that he intended to start all of our young guys in WBS. I can think of about 5 reasons off the top of my head that he would do this. I personally think there is a game # where everything starts to get triggered. MS has been ruthless in the past benching cold players and bringing up the young guns but none of that is happening despite most players being ICE cold. They have to know they need the youth spark again, they clearly aren't idiots.

What that date is for changes I have no idea.

Right now, I would not callup Sprong. He's in quite a slump at the moment. He's been stuck at 14 points for 4 or 5 games now, after tied for the AHL lead in points a few weeks ago. If a callup were to happen, I'd look at Haggerty, DiPauli, or Aston-Reese as a callup to inject some youth.

Haggerty was an undrafted free agent of the Rangers. Not a high end prospect at all, but hard to overlook the 9 goals he has to start the season. He had 11 in 58 games last year for WBS. He's also a 2nd best plus 9 on WBS.

DiPauli is someone the Penguins really like, for his speed and defensive abilities. He's got 7 goals to start, and would probably has much more of a future here than Greg McKegg. He is a strong candidate for 4C or 4LW. I'd bring him up and play him ahead of Kuhnhackl right now.

Aston-Reese maybe needs another week or two, but since getting his wisdom teeth pulled, which affected his play to start the season, he has 2 goals, 7 assists in 14 games. May not get you the goals scoring side, but a good defensive player.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Pruezy11881 on Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:33 am

The Pens are not a playoff team at this point... closer to being a lottery team at the quarter pole of the season. Things have got to change soon. Scoring depth is lacking and too many passengers right now. PK isn't up to par and team cohesiveness on the ice seems to be missing. JR and management can't be happy with results. The more points we miss out on now makes it all that much more difficult to gain ground later.

What exactly is Recchi responsible for being an assistant? Maybe this team misses Tocchet and his motivation/ experience more than we know?

I'm not trying to be doom and gloom but this is not the same team we are used to seeing. I'm sure things will happen and/or turn around... just tough seeing these results that are currently unfolding.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:49 am

Pruezy11881 wrote:The Pens are not a playoff team at this point... closer to being a lottery team at the quarter pole of the season. Things have got to change soon. Scoring depth is lacking and too many passengers right now. PK isn't up to par and team cohesiveness on the ice seems to be missing. JR and management can't be happy with results. The more points we miss out on now makes it all that much more difficult to gain ground later.

What exactly is Recchi responsible for being an assistant? Maybe this team misses Tocchet and his motivation/ experience more than we know?

I'm not trying to be doom and gloom but this is not the same team we are used to seeing. I'm sure things will happen and/or turn around... just tough seeing these results that are currently unfolding.

I thought Recchi was responsible for the PP, which, while I don't like the lack of movement at times and Kris Letang usage, is much more effective than it was at this point last year. Without the PP, this team would likely be at the bottom of the East.

I still contend that finding a taker for Carl Hagelin should be move number 1. He is highest paid expendable player right now. Moving him makes making other moves (even just calling up guys from WBS, much easier.

Max Pacioretty is the next big name being floated around as a possible Penguin target. Elliotte Friedman and a few others mainstream guys think Bergevin is going to start moving major pieces in maybe a month, to start a rebuild. Several have linked the Penguins as having interest. Not sure what the Penguins have that Montreal would want, or that we would be willing to give up to get him.
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