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Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Steve on Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:27 pm

Crashguy66 wrote:Pens Report has Recchi on the 4th line and Gonchar as the #7 Dman. Woohoo! :)


Kovalev working the half-wall on the 2nd powerplay unit too.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Pitts on Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:04 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Bring back Cullen!! Twitter is alive with him being unhappy in Minnesota


what does that mean? Sorry I don't have twitter.

Heard he is to be a healthy scratch tonight against Anaheim! GMJR - send a 4th round pick to Minny for him!!!! #rescuemattcullen
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Daniel on Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:24 pm

Pitts wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Bring back Cullen!! Twitter is alive with him being unhappy in Minnesota


what does that mean? Sorry I don't have twitter.

Heard he is to be a healthy scratch tonight against Anaheim! GMJR - send a 4th round pick to Minny for him!!!! #rescuemattcullen


I wouldn't trade for him, not without talking to him first. He didn't want to play for the 2 time Stanley Cup champs and went home to, what seemed like, a retirement gig. What's changed in 4 months that he'd want to come back to Pittsburgh? Maybe he is unhappy with Minnesota, but it sure seemed like retirement or play at home this summer.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:30 am

Daniel wrote:
Pitts wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Bring back Cullen!! Twitter is alive with him being unhappy in Minnesota


what does that mean? Sorry I don't have twitter.

Heard he is to be a healthy scratch tonight against Anaheim! GMJR - send a 4th round pick to Minny for him!!!! #rescuemattcullen


I wouldn't trade for him, not without talking to him first. He didn't want to play for the 2 time Stanley Cup champs and went home to, what seemed like, a retirement gig. What's changed in 4 months that he'd want to come back to Pittsburgh? Maybe he is unhappy with Minnesota, but it sure seemed like retirement or play at home this summer.

It's not even that. Everything I am seeing out there says he looks like a 41 year old hockey player who waited 1 year too long to hang up the skates. Could it be his usage in MIN, sure. But, our cap space this year is limited right now. I would greatly frown upon another risk-player. And Cullen right now is a risk, no matter how good he made us feel when he was here the last 2 years. His play this year isn't good, and the Penguins can't afford to waste money on Matt Cullen.

Find a legit 3C, and move Sheahan down to be your 4C. Otherwise, you bring Matt Cullen in, take up some cap space, and still need to find a 3C. Time to cut with the nostalgia. This seemed like a good possible late season move at the beginning of the year. Cullen's play to date would seem to negate that, as would the acquisition of Sheahan.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby longtimefan on Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:57 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
Pitts wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:
Skatingpen wrote:Bring back Cullen!! Twitter is alive with him being unhappy in Minnesota


what does that mean? Sorry I don't have twitter.

Heard he is to be a healthy scratch tonight against Anaheim! GMJR - send a 4th round pick to Minny for him!!!! #rescuemattcullen


I wouldn't trade for him, not without talking to him first. He didn't want to play for the 2 time Stanley Cup champs and went home to, what seemed like, a retirement gig. What's changed in 4 months that he'd want to come back to Pittsburgh? Maybe he is unhappy with Minnesota, but it sure seemed like retirement or play at home this summer.

It's not even that. Everything I am seeing out there says he looks like a 41 year old hockey player who waited 1 year too long to hang up the skates. Could it be his usage in MIN, sure. But, our cap space this year is limited right now. I would greatly frown upon another risk-player. And Cullen right now is a risk, no matter how good he made us feel when he was here the last 2 years. His play this year isn't good, and the Penguins can't afford to waste money on Matt Cullen.

Find a legit 3C, and move Sheahan down to be your 4C. Otherwise, you bring Matt Cullen in, take up some cap space, and still need to find a 3C. Time to cut with the nostalgia. This seemed like a good possible late season move at the beginning of the year. Cullen's play to date would seem to negate that, as would the acquisition of Sheahan.


I don't suspect he'd have an issue coming back, and I'm sure they'd talk to him about it first. From what I remember, he was pretty shook up when he decided to sign with the Wild. I even read somewhere that the kids preferred Pittsburgh. His wife gave the stay home or retire ultimatum. They showed the family receiving Cullen's ring when the Pens played in Minny, and, at the end, you can hear Rutherford joking with him about waiting until the deadline this season. Cullen only smiled. As far as if he'd approve a deal, I suspect he would. The wife may nix it, but he doesn't have a no trade clause, so there's an excellent chance he'll wind up somewhere he'd rather not be.

As far as his performance this season, I have to leave that up to Rutherford and the pro scouts. After you fill out the top of your lineup, there are very few sure things. Just projections. You have to trust Rutherford to see something that he'd bring that isn't translating with the Wild. Daley was a projection who JR felt was being used on the wrong side. Hagelin was failing in Anaheim. If they feel he can still play, I'm not opposed to taking a shot. It may not be now, but more towards the trade deadline.

He's a 41 year old 4th line center, and shouldn't mean very much, but I do believe he was what has set the Pens apart the last two seasons. Perhaps he lost everything overnight, although I'm under the opinion it's more of a gradual thing. What made him different is I can't think of another 4th line center who have 249 career goals and 13 double digit goal seasons. Frankly, Nick Bonino was a very ordinary third line center who got white hot at the end of 2016, was a incredibly streaky scorer, and always came up big in the clutch. Still, a pretty overall ordinary player. What's his Pittsburgh legacy if they don't win two cups? He was a pretty typical 3rd center. Cullen was anything but a typical 4th line guy.

Any thoughts to bringing Cullen back hinges at least partly on how they feel about Sheahan. He's long been considered a 3rd line guy, and he's had some success in the past. He's coming off a historically abysmal season, but he had success that was pretty much equivalent to that of Bonino's, especially when taking into account he's the better defensive player. His goal against the Isles was nice, and he just turned 26. He seems to be finding a niche. Certainly, he has to show more production, but there are some promising signs. If he can become an ordinary 3rd line center along the Bonino lines, I'd be fine with that. He gets to play with some good players, and he's an asset if he can solidify your 3rd line. If he can do that, then Cullen might make sense.

41 or not, 4th liner or not, I think Cullen was their biggest loss. He's far from the player he once was, but fit in very well here. Sullivan gave him a lot of responsibility, and he's creative enough to make your 4th line a threat. He's also skilled enough to move up in the lineup in a pinch. In my opinion, he's what made the Pens a 4 line team. There just aren't many of his pedigree centering 4th lines.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:22 pm

Sheahan is at least as useful as Bonino, who was a similar 3c type. With a slightly different toolkit. I don't think either is worse than the other. And if they are, I think Sheahan is better. When Bones was streaking, he had Kessel to carry him.

As commented before Cullen wasn't a 4c, but more a mediocre to poor 3c. Our 4th line wingers would be the problem that keeps any C from being useful. Right now that's Kuhnhackl and somebody worse. You can slot Crosby 4c and he couldnt make lemonade from that.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby pens_CT on Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:26 pm

I think any decision to bring back Cullen hinges on how well Sheahan plays as the 3rd line center. This assumes scouts feel Cullen’s game hasn’t fallen off dramatically solely because of his age.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Steve Dave on Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:30 pm

pens_CT wrote:I think any decision to bring back Cullen hinges on how well Sheahan plays as the 3rd line center. This assumes scouts feel Cullen’s game hasn’t fallen off dramatically solely because of his age.

I actually thought Cullen and Kuhnhackl showed a little bit of chemistry together, tho, I’m not an expert.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby wondermoose on Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:02 pm

Steve Dave wrote:
pens_CT wrote:I think any decision to bring back Cullen hinges on how well Sheahan plays as the 3rd line center. This assumes scouts feel Cullen’s game hasn’t fallen off dramatically solely because of his age.

I actually thought Cullen and Kuhnhackl showed a little bit of chemistry together, tho, I’m not an expert.


The big thing is Cullen was, once upon a time, a very gifted offensive player. Not many make the transition from a top-six, scoring forward to defensively reliable bottom-six player. Those that do never lose that ability to put the puck in the net once in awhile.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Al262 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:12 pm

DelPen wrote:
Pruezy11881 wrote:
DelPen wrote:I see Canes moving to Houston and Central and Yotes moving to Quebec and along with Columbus to the new Northeast, Florida and Tampa to new Atlantic.

I can see 2 of Carolina, Arizona, or Florida being relocated to accommodate balanced divisions/conferences. Houston is a very big untapped market that the NHL should highly consider in my opinion. Also, it'll create a nice Dallas - Houston rivaly. And I think Quebec is a good choice as well. The are starved for NHL hockey, have a big, fancy arena and will definitely make more money (better financially anyways) than then either of these 3 franchises. Plus who can forget the Habs - Nords rivalry games. I think it just makes sense. If anyone in the NHL office has half a brain, this should be under consideration.


8 4 Team rivalries would be good except for just one which I will save for last:

LA, Anaheim, San Jose, Vegas
Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton
Winnipeg, Colorado, Chicago, Minnesota
Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Nashville

Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Toronto
Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec, Boston
NYR, NYI, NJ, Philly

But then we fall off the rails with Pens, Caps, Tampa and Florida. So never mind then:)


The Carolina announcement compliments your alignment, if you assume the Isles become Quebec. Then the Pens fill the NYI slot and the Canes to the southeast.
- Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Toronto
- Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec (NYI), Boston
- NYR, Pens, NJ, Phily
- Caps, Cans, Tampa, and Florida
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:36 pm

Al262 wrote:
DelPen wrote:
Pruezy11881 wrote:
DelPen wrote:I see Canes moving to Houston and Central and Yotes moving to Quebec and along with Columbus to the new Northeast, Florida and Tampa to new Atlantic.

I can see 2 of Carolina, Arizona, or Florida being relocated to accommodate balanced divisions/conferences. Houston is a very big untapped market that the NHL should highly consider in my opinion. Also, it'll create a nice Dallas - Houston rivaly. And I think Quebec is a good choice as well. The are starved for NHL hockey, have a big, fancy arena and will definitely make more money (better financially anyways) than then either of these 3 franchises. Plus who can forget the Habs - Nords rivalry games. I think it just makes sense. If anyone in the NHL office has half a brain, this should be under consideration.


8 4 Team rivalries would be good except for just one which I will save for last:

LA, Anaheim, San Jose, Vegas
Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton
Winnipeg, Colorado, Chicago, Minnesota
Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Nashville

Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Toronto
Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec, Boston
NYR, NYI, NJ, Philly

But then we fall off the rails with Pens, Caps, Tampa and Florida. So never mind then:)


The Carolina announcement compliments your alignment, if you assume the Isles become Quebec. Then the Pens fill the NYI slot and the Canes to the southeast.
- Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Toronto
- Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec (NYI), Boston
- NYR, Pens, NJ, Phily
- Caps, Cans, Tampa, and Florida

LA,ANA,SJ,VGK
EDM,CGY,VAN,SEA
COL,DAL,MIN, WPG
CHI,DET,CBJ,STL

MON,QUE,OTT,TOR
BOS,NYR,NYR,NJ
PIT,WSH,PHI,BUF
FLA,TB,NSH,CAR

Seems to make the most sense to me. I think Houston is still quite a ways off from being a reality. Sliding Nashville over to the East, and Columbus back over to the West creates 8 solid divisions that minimizes travel for division games, and can help create rivalries based on regionality.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby pekkasteele on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:39 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Al262 wrote:
DelPen wrote:
Pruezy11881 wrote:
DelPen wrote:I see Canes moving to Houston and Central and Yotes moving to Quebec and along with Columbus to the new Northeast, Florida and Tampa to new Atlantic.

I can see 2 of Carolina, Arizona, or Florida being relocated to accommodate balanced divisions/conferences. Houston is a very big untapped market that the NHL should highly consider in my opinion. Also, it'll create a nice Dallas - Houston rivaly. And I think Quebec is a good choice as well. The are starved for NHL hockey, have a big, fancy arena and will definitely make more money (better financially anyways) than then either of these 3 franchises. Plus who can forget the Habs - Nords rivalry games. I think it just makes sense. If anyone in the NHL office has half a brain, this should be under consideration.


8 4 Team rivalries would be good except for just one which I will save for last:

LA, Anaheim, San Jose, Vegas
Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton
Winnipeg, Colorado, Chicago, Minnesota
Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Nashville

Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Toronto
Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec, Boston
NYR, NYI, NJ, Philly

But then we fall off the rails with Pens, Caps, Tampa and Florida. So never mind then:)


The Carolina announcement compliments your alignment, if you assume the Isles become Quebec. Then the Pens fill the NYI slot and the Canes to the southeast.
- Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Toronto
- Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec (NYI), Boston
- NYR, Pens, NJ, Phily
- Caps, Cans, Tampa, and Florida

LA,ANA,SJ,VGK
EDM,CGY,VAN,SEA
COL,DAL,MIN, WPG
CHI,DET,CBJ,STL

MON,QUE,OTT,TOR
BOS,NYR,NYR,NJ
PIT,WSH,PHI,BUF
FLA,TB,NSH,CAR

Seems to make the most sense to me. I think Houston is still quite a ways off from being a reality. Sliding Nashville over to the East, and Columbus back over to the West creates 8 solid divisions that minimizes travel for division games, and can help create rivalries based on regionality.


Depending on playoff format, NHL might not want to have all eastern Canadian teams in one division.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby lemieuxReturns on Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:19 pm

Rutherford scares me a bit. His decision to give away our first round pick for Reaves was obviously a lousy decision. Hopefully he doesn’t just give Cole away.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:01 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:Rutherford scares me a bit. His decision to give away our first round pick for Reaves was obviously a lousy decision. Hopefully he doesn’t just give Cole away.


Yeah, 'cause that is what the trade was... a 1st for Reaves.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:17 pm

pens_CT wrote:I think any decision to bring back Cullen hinges on how well Sheahan plays as the 3rd line center. This assumes scouts feel Cullen’s game hasn’t fallen off dramatically solely because of his age.

Points in 8 of his last 12 games.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Great58 on Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:35 pm

Jim wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Rutherford scares me a bit. His decision to give away our first round pick for Reaves was obviously a lousy decision. Hopefully he doesn’t just give Cole away.


Yeah, 'cause that is what the trade was... a 1st for Reaves.

Irrational anger is irrational.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby BurghThing on Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:59 pm

I think the coach has to grab this lazy first period bull by the horns. Make game day skates mandatory. Eliminate them. Change up the pre-game skate ritual, you know they do the same damn drills in the same damn order every stinking game. Switch it up, make them think about what they are doing instead of just going through the pre-game routine.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Steve Dave on Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:12 am

Simon and Crosby look good together, not sure why Guentzel was moved from Malkin’s line. Sheahan looked good with Rust and Hornqvist a little while back. Perhaps re-acquire Cullen and go with the following...

Sheary Crosby Simon
Guentzel Malkin Kessel
Rust Sheahan Hornqvist
Hagelin Cullen Rowney
Kuhnhackl Reaves
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:43 am

Getting a feeling that any trade will be a swing for the fences that isn’t short term. The big piece of that will be Jarry as long as a proven vet that’s either pending UFA or had a manageable contract either on its face or salary retained. Jarry has shown he can be a starter even right now and is only going to get better.

If we were to somehow move Jarry, Letang and a Hagelin all together that would solve a lot of problems but i have no idea who Letang has in his no trade list.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby penny lane on Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:56 am

Sportsnet‏Verified account @Sportsnet
Dec 9

The #Sens have asked Erik Karlsson, among others, for their no-trade lists.

Another Subban/Weber...!
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Great58 on Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 am

penny lane wrote:
Sportsnet‏Verified account @Sportsnet
Dec 9

The #Sens have asked Erik Karlsson, among others, for their no-trade lists.

Another Subban/Weber...!

Karlsson for Letang. Do it, GMJR! (Although the name "Great65" doesn't work as well for me). :lol:
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:37 am

Want to make it huge? Hagelin, Jarry, Letang and a 1st for Condon, Pageau and Karlsson.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby BurghThing on Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:47 am

DelPen wrote:Want to make it huge? Hagelin, Jarry, Letang and a 1st for Condon, Pageau and Karlsson.


I like the cut of your jib.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:22 am

Hagelin, Jarry, and a 1st for Condon and Pageau? Seems quite pricey
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Pitts on Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:43 am

No matter how many times you type it, Letang is not getting traded. Everyone in management loves him.

With that said, look what has happened to the Sens since trading Turris for Duchene! I was one of those who wanted Duchene on the Pens! What a crap move that turned out to be for Ottawa. Turris meanwhile hasn't missed a beat in Nashville.
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