Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:22 pm

Or it could be Boudreau isn't a very good coach the longer he is with a team. Send them McKegg and call it a day.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:24 pm

Skatingpen wrote:Bring back Cullen!! Twitter is alive with him being unhappy in Minnesota


what does that mean? Sorry I don't have twitter.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:18 pm

#mnwild lines: Niederreiter-Staal-Granlund; Zucker-Koivu-Coyle; Ennis-Eriksson Ek-Stewart; Foligno-Cullen-Winnik/Mitchell
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby thehockeyguru on Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:35 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:The Penguins are also being a bit overly cautious with Sprong after their handling of Beau Bennett, and to some degree, Derrick Pouliot. They feel both would have developed better if they both got more playing time in the AHL before ever playing an NHL game. Both of those issues started under Shero, and Rutherford didn't have much options left with either of them (both were all but out of waiver eligibility). They see mistakes were made with those two players, and they want to ensure they aren't rushing anyone. I can live with that.

Do you think the Pens think that they rushed Pouliot when he was up for 34 games in '15? That his lack of development after that was related to a difficulty of accepting his AHL assignment after getting his first cup of coffee with the big club? I seem to remember that as his best hockey with us, at least in flashes. Too early to tell what his time in Vancouver will bring, but he's still a bit of a turnover machine (although better than Letang!).

Too me, rushed isn't the right word for Pouilot. I think overall mismanaged is better. And I agree, I didn't see a lot wrong with his 30 plus games in 2015 and thought that was his best hockey. So, I think they could have given him more opportunity to stick rather than repeatedly pulling him back out of the lineup or sending down to WBS to "work on his defense." Although I must admit, I often get confused between who the Penguins jerked around more, Pouilot or Despres. To me, Despres would have been awesome to keep, and been a good 2nd pairing guy. He's essentially a little more physical and offensive minded Ian Cole, in my book. Might not be as good defensively or of the same warrior attitude, but was pretty sound player.

You look at Shero's track record after he decided to go the "offensive defensemen" route. That idea seemed to come after he was able to get Kunitz and Tangradi for Whitney, followed by Neal for Goligoski......but he missed on every pick after that. Morrow, Pouilot, Despres, Harrington were all shipped out for peanuts. Cole, Schultz, Hunwick and Dumoulin were all external acquisitions, and it even took Dumoulin a year or two to be given the time....basically thrust into the lineup in the playoffs due to injury. Maatta is really the only good defensive hit the Penguins have had in quite some time.....too long.

Back to Pouliot, he seems to be playing quite well. I have a guy I talk hockey with regularly on Twitter that is from Vancouver and a big Canucks fan. He seems to think we got fleeced at this point, that is how well they perceive his play with Vancouver right now.


Of course we got fleeced on Pouliot. It's baffling how you can have a top 10 pick never get a fair shake.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:36 pm

Cullen is not the answer, not any answer, for the Pens.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:16 am

$650 million for Seattle if awarded an expansion team. $150 million more than the VGK. Yikes.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/bett ... n-seattle/
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:34 am

McKegg clears waivers.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby no name on Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:36 am

ville5 wrote:$650 million for Seattle if awarded an expansion team. $150 million more than the VGK. Yikes.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/bett ... n-seattle/


Wondering how realignment works in the west.

Seattle would be in the Pacific Div.

Arizona moves to the Central Div? They still seem to be floating and could be relocated if the arena situation doesn't get resolved.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:26 am

no name wrote:
ville5 wrote:$650 million for Seattle if awarded an expansion team. $150 million more than the VGK. Yikes.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/bett ... n-seattle/


Wondering how realignment works in the west.

Seattle would be in the Pacific Div.

Arizona moves to the Central Div? They still seem to be floating and could be relocated if the arena situation doesn't get resolved.

I've seen some articles floating around the past week or two how Arizona is still a mess that the NHL will have to deal with. Me thinks quietly, the NHL is not saying anything publicly, but they might be more willing to finally relocate Arizona franchise to Quebec.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:35 am

I see Canes moving to Houston and Central and Yotes moving to Quebec and along with Columbus to the new Northeast, Florida and Tampa to new Atlantic.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Pruezy11881 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:50 am

DelPen wrote:I see Canes moving to Houston and Central and Yotes moving to Quebec and along with Columbus to the new Northeast, Florida and Tampa to new Atlantic.

I can see 2 of Carolina, Arizona, or Florida being relocated to accommodate balanced divisions/conferences. Houston is a very big untapped market that the NHL should highly consider in my opinion. Also, it'll create a nice Dallas - Houston rivaly. And I think Quebec is a good choice as well. The are starved for NHL hockey, have a big, fancy arena and will definitely make more money (better financially anyways) than then either of these 3 franchises. Plus who can forget the Habs - Nords rivalry games. I think it just makes sense. If anyone in the NHL office has half a brain, this should be under consideration.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:05 am

Pruezy11881 wrote:
DelPen wrote:I see Canes moving to Houston and Central and Yotes moving to Quebec and along with Columbus to the new Northeast, Florida and Tampa to new Atlantic.

I can see 2 of Carolina, Arizona, or Florida being relocated to accommodate balanced divisions/conferences. Houston is a very big untapped market that the NHL should highly consider in my opinion. Also, it'll create a nice Dallas - Houston rivaly. And I think Quebec is a good choice as well. The are starved for NHL hockey, have a big, fancy arena and will definitely make more money (better financially anyways) than then either of these 3 franchises. Plus who can forget the Habs - Nords rivalry games. I think it just makes sense. If anyone in the NHL office has half a brain, this should be under consideration.

I think Arizona to Quebec is the first move that will happen in the next few years. I honestly think that any more than 32 teams, and we are going to start seeing the return of the Craig Adams 4th line. Too much threat of watering down the game to go beyond 32, IMO. If the NHL is smart, after Seattle, they put at least a 5 year moratorium on expansion (but not relocation).

After Arizona, I think Florida is next on the block. I defended the team against relocation for a few years, as the seats were empty and everyone was pushing for it......but, now this ownership group seems to have taken a major step backward. They moved pieces simply to move salary (Marchessault, Smith, Demers), didn't resign Jagr because of salary, fired a good coach (Gallant) due to an internal power struggle that saw the new interim coach Tom Rowe also take over GM duties and push Tallon aside. That failed miserably, the team now seems to have a mandate to stay about 10M under the cap, the seats are starting to be empty again, and the team missed their chance to build off their playoff season by adding small pieces. They blew off an arm and a leg instead, went a totally different direction, and it is failing. Ever since Wayne Huizinga sold the team, Florida owners have been pathetic. Current group started off strong, but they have joined the worthlessness of the others.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:08 pm

Some possible GAME CHANGING NEWS from Pierre LeBrun at the GM meetings:

The NHL says the current salary cap project for next year is between 78M and 82M, depending on what the inflator clause is set to. If the cap was 82M, that would be the largest season to season jump since the cap was introduced.

Going up at least 3M-5M maybe what the Penguins need to keep Hornqvist around. Offer him closer to 6M but for 3 years, instead of the 5.5M for 5 years. Could also dramatically effect what the Penguins do this summer in free agency.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Great58 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:25 pm

Carolina staying in Carolina for the next 7 years is a condition of the sale of 52% interest to Tom Dundon, which I think is expected to finalize soon (if not already?).
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Great58 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:44 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:The Penguins are also being a bit overly cautious with Sprong after their handling of Beau Bennett, and to some degree, Derrick Pouliot. They feel both would have developed better if they both got more playing time in the AHL before ever playing an NHL game. Both of those issues started under Shero, and Rutherford didn't have much options left with either of them (both were all but out of waiver eligibility). They see mistakes were made with those two players, and they want to ensure they aren't rushing anyone. I can live with that.

Do you think the Pens think that they rushed Pouliot when he was up for 34 games in '15? That his lack of development after that was related to a difficulty of accepting his AHL assignment after getting his first cup of coffee with the big club? I seem to remember that as his best hockey with us, at least in flashes. Too early to tell what his time in Vancouver will bring, but he's still a bit of a turnover machine (although better than Letang!).

Too me, rushed isn't the right word for Pouilot. I think overall mismanaged is better. And I agree, I didn't see a lot wrong with his 30 plus games in 2015 and thought that was his best hockey. So, I think they could have given him more opportunity to stick rather than repeatedly pulling him back out of the lineup or sending down to WBS to "work on his defense." Although I must admit, I often get confused between who the Penguins jerked around more, Pouilot or Despres. To me, Despres would have been awesome to keep, and been a good 2nd pairing guy. He's essentially a little more physical and offensive minded Ian Cole, in my book. Might not be as good defensively or of the same warrior attitude, but was pretty sound player.

You look at Shero's track record after he decided to go the "offensive defensemen" route. That idea seemed to come after he was able to get Kunitz and Tangradi for Whitney, followed by Neal for Goligoski......but he missed on every pick after that. Morrow, Pouilot, Despres, Harrington were all shipped out for peanuts. Cole, Schultz, Hunwick and Dumoulin were all external acquisitions, and it even took Dumoulin a year or two to be given the time....basically thrust into the lineup in the playoffs due to injury. Maatta is really the only good defensive hit the Penguins have had in quite some time.....too long.

Back to Pouliot, he seems to be playing quite well. I have a guy I talk hockey with regularly on Twitter that is from Vancouver and a big Canucks fan. He seems to think we got fleeced at this point, that is how well they perceive his play with Vancouver right now.


Of course we got fleeced on Pouliot. It's baffling how you can have a top 10 pick never get a fair shake.

"Fair shake" is a difficult concept for a Cup contending team. Growing pains he could have had in the NHL with a team like Vancouver (or the Devils) got him benched or stuffed in the AHL, I believe.
We'll see what he becomes. I know some people point to the lack of development of players like Morrow and Harrington and feel like the Pens system ruined them forever, causing the lack of success elsewhere. But then I look at Schultz and wonder how the Pens could screw a prospect up worse than the Oilers, and yet the Pens were able to rehab Schultz successfully. Which then makes me wonder if we just flip a coin on our young d prospects, despite their pedigree, and if so are we worse, better or about the same as other teams with similar drafting positions.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:26 pm

Great58 wrote:Carolina staying in Carolina for the next 7 years is a condition of the sale of 52% interest to Tom Dundon, which I think is expected to finalize soon (if not already?).

Also reading that, with Calgary and Islanders arena issues, there is a possibility those two teams could be considered for relocation down the road.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Great58 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:32 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:Carolina staying in Carolina for the next 7 years is a condition of the sale of 52% interest to Tom Dundon, which I think is expected to finalize soon (if not already?).

Also reading that, with Calgary and Islanders arena issues, there is a possibility those two teams could be considered for relocation down the road.

I thought Calgary to Seattle was a done deal a month ago when the city of Calgary declined any public funding for a new arena.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:13 pm

Great58 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Great58 wrote:Carolina staying in Carolina for the next 7 years is a condition of the sale of 52% interest to Tom Dundon, which I think is expected to finalize soon (if not already?).

Also reading that, with Calgary and Islanders arena issues, there is a possibility those two teams could be considered for relocation down the road.

I thought Calgary to Seattle was a done deal a month ago when the city of Calgary declined any public funding for a new arena.


It seems like the plan is to get to 32 and then let the rest sort itself out.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby wondermoose on Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm

Jim wrote:Cullen is not the answer, not any answer, for the Pens.


Instant upgrade over anything they've skated out on the fourth line. Makes just $450k more than McKegg and at least you know that he can get the job done based on him having actually gotten the job done for two years.

That said, it doesn't solve the third-line center problems because Sheahan just ain't gonna cut it!
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Crashguy66 on Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:56 pm

Pens Report has Recchi on the 4th line and Gonchar as the #7 Dman. Woohoo! :)
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:02 pm

Pruezy11881 wrote:
DelPen wrote:I see Canes moving to Houston and Central and Yotes moving to Quebec and along with Columbus to the new Northeast, Florida and Tampa to new Atlantic.

I can see 2 of Carolina, Arizona, or Florida being relocated to accommodate balanced divisions/conferences. Houston is a very big untapped market that the NHL should highly consider in my opinion. Also, it'll create a nice Dallas - Houston rivaly. And I think Quebec is a good choice as well. The are starved for NHL hockey, have a big, fancy arena and will definitely make more money (better financially anyways) than then either of these 3 franchises. Plus who can forget the Habs - Nords rivalry games. I think it just makes sense. If anyone in the NHL office has half a brain, this should be under consideration.


8 4 Team rivalries would be good except for just one which I will save for last:

LA, Anaheim, San Jose, Vegas
Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton
Winnipeg, Colorado, Chicago, Minnesota
Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Nashville

Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Toronto
Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec, Boston
NYR, NYI, NJ, Philly

But then we fall off the rails with Pens, Caps, Tampa and Florida. So never mind then:)
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby wondermoose on Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:18 pm

Crashguy66 wrote:Pens Report has Recchi on the 4th line and Gonchar as the #7 Dman. Woohoo! :)


Image
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby thehockeyguru on Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:00 pm

DelPen wrote:
Pruezy11881 wrote:
DelPen wrote:I see Canes moving to Houston and Central and Yotes moving to Quebec and along with Columbus to the new Northeast, Florida and Tampa to new Atlantic.

I can see 2 of Carolina, Arizona, or Florida being relocated to accommodate balanced divisions/conferences. Houston is a very big untapped market that the NHL should highly consider in my opinion. Also, it'll create a nice Dallas - Houston rivaly. And I think Quebec is a good choice as well. The are starved for NHL hockey, have a big, fancy arena and will definitely make more money (better financially anyways) than then either of these 3 franchises. Plus who can forget the Habs - Nords rivalry games. I think it just makes sense. If anyone in the NHL office has half a brain, this should be under consideration.


8 4 Team rivalries would be good except for just one which I will save for last:

LA, Anaheim, San Jose, Vegas
Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton
Winnipeg, Colorado, Chicago, Minnesota
Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Nashville

Detroit, Buffalo, Columbus, Toronto
Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec, Boston
NYR, NYI, NJ, Philly

But then we fall off the rails with Pens, Caps, Tampa and Florida. So never mind then:)


You don't think the Islanders have a shot at moving?
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Jim on Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:10 pm

wondermoose wrote:
Jim wrote:Cullen is not the answer, not any answer, for the Pens.


Instant upgrade over anything they've skated out on the fourth line. Makes just $450k more than McKegg and at least you know that he can get the job done based on him having actually gotten the job done for two years.

That said, it doesn't solve the third-line center problems because Sheahan just ain't gonna cut it!


No, he got the job done the last 2 years, but is on unemployment this year.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Puck-Lurker on Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:22 pm

ville5 wrote:McKegg clears waivers.

Dominik Simon has been recalled.
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