Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

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Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:29 pm

Have at it!
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby RentedMule66 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:44 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:Have at it!

Glad we stopped at page 665 :shock:
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:28 pm

- I wonder if Brian Boyle could be had cheap? As Cullen's replacement.
- If Bones is priced out of our range- Marleau is originally a center, would Canes retain 1/2 on Jordan?, TML would probably retain a good bit on Bozak.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:33 pm

ville5 wrote:- I wonder if Brian Boyle could be had cheap? As Cullen's replacement.
- If Bones is priced out of our range- Marleau is originally a center, would Canes retain 1/2 on Jordan?, TML would probably retain a good bit on Bozak.

No thanks to Boyle, Marleau, or Staal. I'd be fine with Bozak or a reasonably priced Bonino.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby pens#1 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:38 pm

If Thornton could be had for a reasonable price it would be great. Strong 3rd line center and great for second PP unit.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby PAPLine on Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:48 pm

We have Sundqvist and Sprong being blocked from coming up. There is that kid from Northeaster who tore it up at Wilkes. With their experience this year, they should be able to carry the load next year in the absense of Cullen and Bonino.
To me, the real question is do we rent a back-up goalie or bring up either Jarry or deSmith. I favor deSmith as I don't want to see Jarry only playing 20 games or so.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:08 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
ville5 wrote:- I wonder if Brian Boyle could be had cheap? As Cullen's replacement.
- If Bones is priced out of our range- Marleau is originally a center, would Canes retain 1/2 on Jordan?, TML would probably retain a good bit on Bozak.

No thanks to Boyle, Marleau, or Staal. I'd be fine with Bozak or a reasonably priced Bonino.

Scratch that. Thought Marleau PKed. But can you imagine teams trying to defend Marleau and Kessel's speed on the 3rd line? Throw Rusty on the port side.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:12 pm

PAPLine wrote:We have Sundqvist and Sprong being blocked from coming up. There is that kid from Northeaster who tore it up at Wilkes. With their experience this year, they should be able to carry the load next year in the absense of Cullen and Bonino.
To me, the real question is do we rent a back-up goalie or bring up either Jarry or deSmith. I favor deSmith as I don't want to see Jarry only playing 20 games or so.

So, I'm going to make another post tonight, as I start looking at the Penguins organizational depth heading into the off-season, starting with goaltender.

But, the simple fact is Jarry has nothing to gain at the AHL level. Penguins safest play would be to start the season with Jarry at the NHL level, and if he struggles, pickup a solid veteran backup at the trade deadline.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:06 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
PAPLine wrote:We have Sundqvist and Sprong being blocked from coming up. There is that kid from Northeaster who tore it up at Wilkes. With their experience this year, they should be able to carry the load next year in the absense of Cullen and Bonino.
To me, the real question is do we rent a back-up goalie or bring up either Jarry or deSmith. I favor deSmith as I don't want to see Jarry only playing 20 games or so.

So, I'm going to make another post tonight, as I start looking at the Penguins organizational depth heading into the off-season, starting with goaltender.

But, the simple fact is Jarry has nothing to gain at the AHL level. Penguins safest play would be to start the season with Jarry at the NHL level, and if he struggles, pickup a solid veteran backup at the trade deadline.

Cost alone almost dictates Jarry should be given the backup spot.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:21 pm

Going to make a few posts over the next couple of days, looking at the organizational depth of each position. Tonight, I'll take a look at goaltending. Right now, the goaltending position is quite an odd one. It is both a position of strength, and yet, likely the thinnest position in the organization.

First, you have Marc-Andre Fleury. At least, for a few more weeks at most. Rutherford talking this week doesn't seem like it is a sure thing Vegas will take Fleury. That could just be him being vague with the NHL trying to keep a lid on any deals with Vegas. But, if by some chance Vegas does not take Fleury, he will be traded.....and if there are no takers, maybe even bought out. It seems to have gotten to that point. Rutherford commended his goalies for how they handled the season, but it is very clear MAF still wants to be a starter in this league and is not going to be satisfied sitting as the #2 behind Murray. There is virtually no way Fleury survives the summer as a Penguin.

Next up, you have the future star in Matt Murray. Not much to say here. The injuries are a bit of a concern, as is the sometimes leaky glove hand, but he is still already a two-time Cup winning goalie at age 23.

Next, Tristan Jarry. I truly believe right now, the best play for the Penguins is to let him start the season as Murray's backup. With that strategy, he'd likely have about 10 games under his belt as January 1st rolls around. That should be enough to determine if Jarry's play is solid enough to remain the backup, or if Rutherford goes out at the deadline and acquires a veteran backup (which, he very well may do even if Jarry plays great). It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Jarry had to play the majority of the season in WBS, but he is at the point where being able to see NHL level competition, and working with Mike Bales on a more regular basis would be better for him. He doesn't have much to gain in the AHL level.

After Murray and Jarry, things drop off a Grand Canyon sized cliff pretty quickly. They Penguins only have one other goalie under contract, Sean Maguire. Maguire is a 4th round draft pick from 2012, taken a round after Matt Murray. Maguire is 50/50 at best to ever see the NHL. He hasn't played a lot of hockey the past few years. He has yet to play a game at the AHL level, spending last year with Wheeling.

Casey DeSmith is a goalie that the Penguins brought in 2 years ago, when Murray was called up for an injured Fleury, and Tristan Jarry was struggling. He has an AHL only deal, which means, unless signed to a pro deal (two-way AHL/NHL deal), he is not eligible to play for the Penguins. I am unsure if he needs to be resigned or if his AHL level deal is still in place for this year. DeSmith is an undrafted player who turns 26 in August. He's most likely in the career minor league journeyman goaltender category.

After DeSmith, the only other direct Penguins goalie property is last year's draft pick Filip Gustavsson. Gustavsson didn't play a lot of hockey last year. He seemed to struggle a lot for his Swedish team, but was also the backup. I'm not sure what his plans are in terms of coming to North America. It might be more beneficial for him to come over this summer than be a backup behind a vet goalie in Sweden.

I think you can almost guarantee that the Penguins draft a goalie this year. I wouldn't even call it a stretch if the Penguins drafted a goalie with their 1st overall pick, if they could snag someone like Jake Oettinger or Ukka-Pekka Luukkonen, probably the top two goalies in the draft. If the Penguins could pick up some additional draft picks, it wouldn't surprise me to see them draft two goalies. They need some more depth in the organization with the emergence of Murray and Jarry pushing for NHL time. If Vegas doesn't select Fleury, I would also consider looking for a depth AHL goalie in any deal for Fleury.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:03 am

I like Daley and Hainsey and all, but I'd like to see some younger bodies brought in on D. GMJR has history with Murray. Maybe he can snag Sami Vatanen. Also, there were rumors of Pens' interest in Brendan Smith and Micheal Stone at the deadline.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby ville5 on Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:10 am

What kind of impact around the league do yinz think the Pens winning the Cup without a true number 1 D will have? Our top 3 of Olli, Cole and Schultz was probably the lower end of the spectrum as far as strength of contenders' top 4 is concerned. And we all know how other GM's like to copycat champs.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:27 am

FLPensFan wrote:
PAPLine wrote:We have Sundqvist and Sprong being blocked from coming up. There is that kid from Northeaster who tore it up at Wilkes. With their experience this year, they should be able to carry the load next year in the absense of Cullen and Bonino.
To me, the real question is do we rent a back-up goalie or bring up either Jarry or deSmith. I favor deSmith as I don't want to see Jarry only playing 20 games or so.

So, I'm going to make another post tonight, as I start looking at the Penguins organizational depth heading into the off-season, starting with goaltender.

But, the simple fact is Jarry has nothing to gain at the AHL level. Penguins safest play would be to start the season with Jarry at the NHL level, and if he struggles, pickup a solid veteran backup at the trade deadline.


Or if he excels you can use him as a showcase piece to get in an upgrade in other areas along with a solid backup. Zero reason to not start with him as the backup next season.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:29 am

ville5 wrote:What kind of impact around the league do yinz think the Pens winning the Cup without a true number 1 D will have? Our top 3 of Olli, Cole and Schultz was probably the lower end of the spectrum as far as strength of contenders' top 4 is concerned. And we all know how other GM's like to copycat champs.

Could drive down prices for defensemen since there aren't any great ones out there for UFA and guys like shattenkirk shat the bed so why would you give up lots of money or picks for a defenseman when you can had depth with a Hainsey?
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:40 am

Granted Cole is probably the 5th defenseman we protect but looks like, barring any trades, him with Wilson and Khunhackl will be left exposed unless we want to leave a big contract exposed with Hags or Horny since we need two forwards with the minimum games played requirement left exposed.

All signs point to them taking Fleury and we are done but they could still go Cole or Wilson.

Caps made a trade to get a player only to expose so they could protect Wilson and Ellers. But I don't think we need to make a move to make sure any forwards we have stay safe.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:06 am

ville5 wrote:I like Daley and Hainsey and all, but I'd like to see some younger bodies brought in on D. GMJR has history with Murray. Maybe he can snag Sami Vatanen. Also, there were rumors of Pens' interest in Brendan Smith and Micheal Stone at the deadline.

Vatanen is a RH, RD, so unless resigning Schultz falls through, probably not even worth considering.

Stone was mediocre at best. Brendan Smith, meh, for what was possibly available he was ok, but I'd look at other options.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:27 am

ville5 wrote:- I wonder if Brian Boyle could be had cheap? As Cullen's replacement.
- If Bones is priced out of our range- Marleau is originally a center, would Canes retain 1/2 on Jordan?, TML would probably retain a good bit on Bozak.


I actually love the idea of Boyle. Maybe 2 year - 2 million. He is exactly the kind of guy Rutherford was talking about bringing in.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:52 am

DelPen wrote:
ville5 wrote:What kind of impact around the league do yinz think the Pens winning the Cup without a true number 1 D will have? Our top 3 of Olli, Cole and Schultz was probably the lower end of the spectrum as far as strength of contenders' top 4 is concerned. And we all know how other GM's like to copycat champs.

Could drive down prices for defensemen since there aren't any great ones out there for UFA and guys like shattenkirk shat the bed so why would you give up lots of money or picks for a defenseman when you can had depth with a Hainsey?

Well, without really thinking about it much lately or harping on it, it proves to me that it will work. When people have talked endlessly about trading Letang, I had mentioned in the past that I wonder if the Penguins could go with a defense by committee type approach instead of having a true #1. I think to really make it work, you need to have some high-end defensive prospects on ELC (Werenski, Gostisbehere, Zaitsev, etc) types that are capable of being 2nd pairing defenseman on most teams.

Instead of paying your #1 d man 6.5-7.5M, #2 5-5.5M, 2nd pairing guys 4-5M each, 3rd pairing guys 2M or less, you go out and get 4 or 5 2nd pairing type defenseman, spread out the money. It would also require you to have more depth on defense than the Penguins currently have......but, I think the Penguins just proved that it is indeed possible. Will more teams move to this model and be successful.....I doubt it.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby BurghThing on Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:07 am

The Penguins just proved in back to back years that speed and skill win in the NHL. How many teams do you think are going to copy that, versus, getting bigger and dumber? Yes I'm looking at you Philadelphia. But it is not really a copy-cat league like most other sports. The old school mentality still prevails and until it dies off, I don't see it changing.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:38 am

Early morning odds and ends:

---Hearing Tocchet was never interviewed for the Buffalo HC job. Was an early favorite, but never actually interviewed. Sounding like Housley, but nothing firm yet.
---Avs are buying out defenseman Francois Beauchemin. He had a NMC, which he likely would not waive.
---Wild seem resigned to the fact that they are going to lose a good player. Remains to be seen if they let it be a defenseman or a forward.
---KHL continues to fall apart daily. Apparently new owners stepped in and took over Dynamo Moscow club. Player's state they won't play until they are paid the salary to them from previous ownership is paid. New owners say tough borscht, new owners not paying for past owner mistakes. Players have gone on strike. Hearing Ovechkin may ask Putin to step in and help out.
---Dion Phaneuf refused to waive his NMC, which may force Ottawa to lose Marc Methot to Vegas. Hearing some teams are interested in acquiring Phaneuf if salary is retained.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:45 am

I just hope Rutherford sticks to the plan of not paying crazy money for defense. Schultz is going to command big money and we already have Letang. It has been proven two years in a row now that it is not necessary. What IS necessary is 4 lines that can play and score. Spend the money on forwards and keep bringing up the AHL defensemen.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Antonio on Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:53 am

Problem is, I could see Schultz commanding 5 million +, but I would only like to see him get 4. I mean hell, if someone gave Orpik and Niskanen 6m, Schultz should get 13. Certainly cannot afford Letang and another 5+. I still cannot believe they signed Letang to that absurd contract...that thing is definitely going to hurt us long term. 7m a year until like 2143 for a guy I was ready to part with when he signed it and frankly, could stand to see him go now. :(. Too much money and term for too many injuries.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:39 am

Antonio wrote:Problem is, I could see Schultz commanding 5 million +, but I would only like to see him get 4. I mean hell, if someone gave Orpik and Niskanen 6m, Schultz should get 13. Certainly cannot afford Letang and another 5+. I still cannot believe they signed Letang to that absurd contract...that thing is definitely going to hurt us long term. 7m a year until like 2143 for a guy I was ready to part with when he signed it and frankly, could stand to see him go now. :(. Too much money and term for too many injuries.


I have said it many times. He is my favorite Pen, but we definitely should entertain trading him for assets. Oilers would love to have him. So would New Jersey, but that isn't happening.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby FLPensFan on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:54 am

lemieuxReturns wrote:I just hope Rutherford sticks to the plan of not paying crazy money for defense. Schultz is going to command big money and we already have Letang. It has been proven two years in a row now that it is not necessary. What IS necessary is 4 lines that can play and score. Spend the money on forwards and keep bringing up the AHL defensemen.

Everything I have heard regarding Schultz and the Penguins is, Rutherford has clearly put it out there he isn't going to get market price from the Penguins. He's going to have to take less money if he wants to stay. I like Schultz at 4M or 4.25M, and would be ok with 4.5M if that is what it took. Above that, I think Rutherford passes and trades his rights, as Rutherford has also pretty much said they can't afford to let him go to arbitration as they won't be stuck with an arbitration award higher than they think they can pay.

Dumoulin will be the interesting case. He definitely had a rougher year this year. We also know he had a lot of injuries down the stretch. I'm interested what they pay him. Hoping it is about 3.5M, even if is is for a shorter deal, but fearing they will give him more of a Maatta type deal.

Same thing kind of goes for Sheary. Had a great season, 50 plus points, almost a point per game player, but disappeared for a long stretch in the playoffs, and still plagued by some injuries.
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Re: Off-Season Discussion Thread 2017-2018

Postby Puck-Lurker on Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:58 am

Antonio wrote:Problem is, I could see Schultz commanding 5 million +, but I would only like to see him get 4. I mean hell, if someone gave Orpik and Niskanen 6m, Schultz should get 13. Certainly cannot afford Letang and another 5+. I still cannot believe they signed Letang to that absurd contract...that thing is definitely going to hurt us long term. 7m a year until like 2143 for a guy I was ready to part with when he signed it and frankly, could stand to see him go now. :(. Too much money and term for too many injuries.


For 5M, I'd eject Schultz in a heartbeat. That'd be about 8 AHL-size contracts, more than he's worth. He does deserve the upgrade, so I'd like him at ~3, but not worth much more. We already committed to Määttä for silly money. Sullivan can work well with guys coming up from WBS, that has to factor.

Gostisbehere was brought up earlier, now I might be in error, but I thought PHI signed him for 6 years 27M (4.5M cap hit)

If DeSmith pans out, he'll probably get a two-way contract and moves up to Jarry's current place as WBS starter / 2nd backup for PIT. If he doesn't, Pens will acquire a talented goalie to take that role. If Jarry falls through as a backup and DeSmith isn't ready, they'll bring in a cheap veteran. If Fleury stays somehow, this all goes out the window.

Aside from one defenceman (or two if Schultz or Dumoulin can't be resigned at a good price), we need an extra center to replace Bones. I'd be fine keeping Bones at 3M but I can't see it happen. Sundqvist and Rowney are all we got behind #13 and #7, while I'd love to see them get chances at 4C, I'm sketchy about relying on either for 3C. I don't think Simon or Dea are ready for anything more than a couple of games.

I'd put out some feelers to Gagner (CBJ). He'd potentially be an upgrade over Bonino, but I've got a feeling he'll cost a lot, UFA with a .650M former contract and 50pts. Think he'll have his share of offers, including a big upgrade in Columbus. If not, Ryan (CAR) might be worth a look.

----------
Let's face it though. Bonino and Cullen put up some awesome numbers.
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