Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Maestro on Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:23 am

Eats up cap space and has scored 2 goals in his last 88 games. Yeah, move of the year.
Maestro
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,558
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:05 pm

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby murphydump55 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:57 am

Maestro wrote:Eats up cap space and has scored 2 goals in his last 88 games. Yeah, move of the year.


Which is what everyone is declaring it is.
murphydump55
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,078
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:06 pm
Location: the real hockeyville and apparently a janitor from Eastern Canada LOL

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby ville5 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:54 am

Maestro wrote:Eats up cap space and has scored 2 goals in his last 88 games. Yeah, move of the year.

Anyone remember what happened to Pittsburgh's offense during Johnston's 110 games?
Is it possible Detroit's offense has suffered the same fate during Blashill's 164 games?
Like GMJR said, you can't predict what Sheahan's production will be. But how about we give Riley 30-40 games to see what Sully can bring out of him.
ville5
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,219
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Maestro on Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:16 am

ville5 wrote:
Maestro wrote:Eats up cap space and has scored 2 goals in his last 88 games. Yeah, move of the year.

Anyone remember what happened to Pittsburgh's offense during Johnston's 110 games?
Is it possible Detroit's offense has suffered the same fate during Blashill's 164 games?
Like GMJR said, you can't predict what Sheahan's production will be. But how about we give Riley 30-40 games to see what Sully can bring out of him.


Fair enough - I do think it is also fair to not like the trade due to the cap space lost. Let's not forget the backup goalie is 0-3 and has a save percentage under .80 - sure they were 3 worst-case scenario games, but still - that may be another issue that needs addressed in the near future, and more cap space eaten.

This may seem a 'nothing was really lost' kind of roll of the dice trade - but the cap hit isn't simply nothing to be concerned about, at least to me. The cap space is the main reason DET did the deal, so AA could come back. We all remember the debacle prior to the Cup runs where PIT couldn't even suit 6 dmen at the end of the season. Maybe the big name centers were always a pipe dream - even more so now as there is less space to fit one in, even at the deadline when someone like Thornton may want to try for a legit cup run 1 more time.
Maestro
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,558
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:05 pm

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby bse on Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:17 am

Maestro wrote:Eats up cap space and has scored 2 goals in his last 88 games. Yeah, move of the year.


Fortunately future results are not based on past experience. See: Schultz, Cole, Niskanen, Kunitz, Daley

I have a feeling Sheahan will be better than most dare to imagine.
bse
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 890
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:43 am
Location: Finland

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby tman1737 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:59 am

Ok with the move, even more so now with Rowney hurt. Upgrade 4 sure. Now waive Niemi, try to pry Pickard from the Marlies.
tman1737
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:21 pm

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby FLPensFan on Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:37 am

Maestro wrote:
ville5 wrote:
Maestro wrote:Eats up cap space and has scored 2 goals in his last 88 games. Yeah, move of the year.

Anyone remember what happened to Pittsburgh's offense during Johnston's 110 games?
Is it possible Detroit's offense has suffered the same fate during Blashill's 164 games?
Like GMJR said, you can't predict what Sheahan's production will be. But how about we give Riley 30-40 games to see what Sully can bring out of him.


Fair enough - I do think it is also fair to not like the trade due to the cap space lost. Let's not forget the backup goalie is 0-3 and has a save percentage under .80 - sure they were 3 worst-case scenario games, but still - that may be another issue that needs addressed in the near future, and more cap space eaten.

This may seem a 'nothing was really lost' kind of roll of the dice trade - but the cap hit isn't simply nothing to be concerned about, at least to me. The cap space is the main reason DET did the deal, so AA could come back. We all remember the debacle prior to the Cup runs where PIT couldn't even suit 6 dmen at the end of the season. Maybe the big name centers were always a pipe dream - even more so now as there is less space to fit one in, even at the deadline when someone like Thornton may want to try for a legit cup run 1 more time.

Certainly correct that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if you don't like the trade, then just leave.... j/k

The cap space isn't as big of a concern as it is being made out to be. As i pointed out in a post last night, if the Penguins eventually go back to a 13F, 7D lineup (which would be Hunwick returning, Trotman to WBS, and one of Archibald, Rowney, or McKegg to WBS), the Penguins will still have almost 2M of cap space.

Also, any bigger moves made this season, one way or another, would have required someone to be moved off the current roster. Yes, Duchene with 3M in cap space would have fit under the cap with 40 games remaining, but, it is unrealistic to think Colorado would take a trade of picks and prospects.

I still think Rutherford goes big game hunting, because if Sprong can improve his 5on5 play (defense and scoring...most points of his are on the PP), Rutherford will likely make room for him. Two moves everyone would hate, but are actual possibilities people don't want to talk about......are Hornqvist or Kessel getting traded.

As Mackey pointed out earlier this week in a chat, Hornqvist is likely going to be looking for his last big contract. Nobody knows for sure, but, let's assume the Penguins want to keep him but come January 1st, Hornqvist is asking for more money than the Penguins want to pay or can afford to pay. You'd love to hang onto him for playoffs and let him possibly walk, but if there is a possibiiity someone wanted him in a bigger trade to help the team this year and down the road, it has to be considered.

Phil Kessel is a two time Stanley Cup champion. I've made the comparison before, and while obviously not at his level yet, I see strong comparisons to Sprong and Kessel. Both are known as goal scorers, both are not known for their play away from the puck, and both are pretty good snipers on the PP. I'd be willing to say Sprong may actually be a bit better on the PP today, because Sprong can effectively rip the one time slapper on the PP, which Kessel cannot do with consistency. Not saying Kessel needs to go, but if Sprong is able to come up and continue playing well, which so far, he's done at every level, I question whether there is room in Sully's system for two top 6 wingers that don't pay much attention to detail. Further, Sprong is still young and has time to be coached up more and improve the defensive side. This isn't something I would really see happening this year, but in a year or so's time, I see it as a strong possibility.
FLPensFan
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,740
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: South Florida @RandomHockeyGuy

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby ville5 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:59 am

Maestro wrote:
ville5 wrote:
Maestro wrote:Eats up cap space and has scored 2 goals in his last 88 games. Yeah, move of the year.

Anyone remember what happened to Pittsburgh's offense during Johnston's 110 games?
Is it possible Detroit's offense has suffered the same fate during Blashill's 164 games?
Like GMJR said, you can't predict what Sheahan's production will be. But how about we give Riley 30-40 games to see what Sully can bring out of him.


Fair enough - I do think it is also fair to not like the trade due to the cap space lost. Let's not forget the backup goalie is 0-3 and has a save percentage under .80 - sure they were 3 worst-case scenario games, but still - that may be another issue that needs addressed in the near future, and more cap space eaten.

This may seem a 'nothing was really lost' kind of roll of the dice trade - but the cap hit isn't simply nothing to be concerned about, at least to me. The cap space is the main reason DET did the deal, so AA could come back. We all remember the debacle prior to the Cup runs where PIT couldn't even suit 6 dmen at the end of the season. Maybe the big name centers were always a pipe dream - even more so now as there is less space to fit one in, even at the deadline when someone like Thornton may want to try for a legit cup run 1 more time.

I agree. The Cap is always a concern with the Pens. Backup is definitely a concern. Has Niemi ever been this bad?
ville5
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,219
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby longtimefan on Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:00 am

Maestro wrote:Eats up cap space and has scored 2 goals in his last 88 games. Yeah, move of the year.


I have a feeling the cap space is going to have a few moving parts. If nothing else, I don't see them carrying 14 forwards. I know they fear losing Archibald, but he hasn't played a game yet, and that doesn't look to change in the near future. Then there's this article Dan Kingerski today.


http://pittsburghhockeynow.com/sources- ... s-zaripov/

The one thing I like about that rumor is that it has a very short shelf life. :D It says they planned to meet last night and today. So, if there's any truth to it, we should know quick.

Plus, remember Sprong is tearing up the AHL right now. He may force his way into the NHL sooner rather then later.

The Pens are very much a work in progress. Sheahan was on the rise until Babcock went to Toronto. Then, all down hill. I've got to trust their scouting based on their track record. He gives the team another big body, and was considered to have some defensive prowess. In the best case scenario, he contributes offensively with solid linemates and plays a shutdown role for you.

On another note, I was looking at the Stewie Griffin recap from last night, and saw Guentzel's stats as a fill in at center. I missed the game personally, but netwolf suggested he didn't look out of place. I think he's done a fine job centering Sheary and Rust on an effective second pp unit. I know everybody has been so enamored with his chemistry with Sid. Rightfully so. They've shown it in spurts this season, but it hasn't been as consistently magical. Everybody is enamored with the idea of the Pens having three strong offensive lines, but it never was practical to bring in 4m to 6M cap hits. The thing is, I believe the Pens are a work in progress and should explore every avenue to maximize their assets. I don't believe the Pens will, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing them finding out if the answer has been there the whole time. Now, Zaripov could throw this out of whack, but really would just add another winger to the mix, but I think this might be a pretty strong line-up without looking outside the organization.

Rust Crosby Hornqvist
Sheary Malkin Kessel
Hagelin Guentzel Sprong
Kuhnhackl Sheahan Reaves
McKegg Rowney
Archibald

Signing Zaripov would simply throw another winger into the mix. People will say Sid doen't like to play with Horny. Yet they won a cup together on the same line two seasons ago. This team is all about winning. Plus, there's some moving parts there. Perhaps Sprong works his way up there. Or perhaps Sprong and Kessel flip flop. the pont bein, I believe you should give Jake a chance there. I've always thought he was capable. It gives you pretty strong depth. Do I believe they will give it a long look? No. But I would.
longtimefan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,151
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:33 pm

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby sluggermatt15 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:25 am

Let's see what he's got. I doubt Rutherford would pull this deal and not expect a decent player in return. JMO.
sluggermatt15
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:45 pm

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Puck-Lurker on Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:36 am

Yes, I'm aware of Crosby's -6 with 28 (!) PIMs. But I'm hoping Sully solves his meltdowns. Teammates need to tell Sid to retrieve his helm from his rear, shut up and sit down on the team bench instead. Can't lead from the box. Let's assume this is a temporary situation. Autumn is here and all...


- Now.. If Sheahan plus Guentzel, Rowney, McKegg or whomever can fill the shoes of Bonino/Cullen, I'm happy at C. That's a big if, but maybe not that big?
- We have more wings than your local KFC! (Zaripov? Euh, nope?)
- Murray/Niemi will either work, or Jarry or another AHL'er can come up. Where the depth chart is concerned, Niemi is not a problem.

That leaves the D-corps.
Mäattä/Hunwick/Ruhwedel -1/-2/+1
Schultz/Cole -3/-2
Dumo/Tang is sitting on -8/-9 (that continues, maybe look to split these two guys up)

Wouldn't hurt to add someone that makes Tanger hockey.
Puck-Lurker
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,825
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:49 am
Location: We will not trade Sprong!

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby dark_forces on Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:00 am

I'm okay with the deal ,although I wonder why draft picks needed to be included at all...
I would have just done Wilson for Sheahan. We took 2 million off their payroll and gave up a 3rd rounder. I don't think Wilson will ever be more than a 3rd line wing, but maybe they should've given us the 3rd rounder and we the 5th rounder, in addition to the players moved.
Just a thought.
dark_forces
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:48 am

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Jim on Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:52 am

Not against the deal, but not for it. I don't understand the draw people have to Sheahan other than he was available, and journalists talked up the Pens going for him.

Offense last 2+ seasons (15-16, 16-17, 17-18):
Sheahan: 169gp 16-22-38, 0.2249ppg
Wilson : 105gp 13-19-32, 0.3048ppg

So... Sheahan is absolutely nothing to write home about offensively. Not really physical, meh defensively. Sheahan was 50.2% on faceoffs last year but took 466. This year he has only taken 19 in 8 games, so even Detroit doesn't want him at the dot. Even Hagelin has taken 10. At this point, the biggest change to the Pens is that Wilson made $0.625M and Sheahan makes $2.075M, 3.32x as much.

Fingers crossed that he can handle the faceoff load. If so then the Pens are better off. If not, then they just wasted a good bit of cap space to put towards actual improvement.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Great58 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:06 pm

I think Sheahan is an improvement over both McKegg and Rowney. It’s an area of organizational weakness after the big 2.
We have an excess of wingers.
No matter if Sheahan shines at 3C or moves to 4C after another trade happens, I don’t see it as a bad trade.
Comparing points over the last few seasons between Wilson and Sheahan doesn’t capture the bigger picture in play.
Great58
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,563
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:56 pm
Location: On the blue line

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby longtimefan on Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:13 pm

Jim wrote:Not against the deal, but not for it. I don't understand the draw people have to Sheahan other than he was available, and journalists talked up the Pens going for him.

Offense last 2+ seasons (15-16, 16-17, 17-18):
Sheahan: 169gp 16-22-38, 0.2249ppg
Wilson : 105gp 13-19-32, 0.3048ppg

So... Sheahan is absolutely nothing to write home about offensively. Not really physical, meh defensively. Sheahan was 50.2% on faceoffs last year but took 466. This year he has only taken 19 in 8 games, so even Detroit doesn't want him at the dot. Even Hagelin has taken 10. At this point, the biggest change to the Pens is that Wilson made $0.625M and Sheahan makes $2.075M, 3.32x as much.

Fingers crossed that he can handle the faceoff load. If so then the Pens are better off. If not, then they just wasted a good bit of cap space to put towards actual improvement.


It comes down to their projections of him. You're stats are correct, but it also doesn't take into account that it entails all but one game of Wison's career, whereas Sheahan has played 292. The thing about Sheahan is that he was considered an up and coming above average 3rd line center. Then the bottom fell out. From that standpoint, it's got some similarities to the Schultz trade. Take a flyer and see if you can reignite his career. He was a teammate of Bryan Rust at Notre Dame. I'm sure the Pens did their due diligence.

Most scouting reports tout Sheahan's defensive abilities much more than his potential offensive prowess. We like stats though. On the surface, the promise with Sheahan is that he needs a change of scenery. There's some evidence that he just didn't mesh with Blashell. Since he replaced Babcock, Sheahan has 16 goals and 22 assists in 169 games. 14 of the goals was his first season under Blashell. Compare that to his performance under Babcock, he played 123 games, producing 22-38-60. That includes 13G and 36 points in Babcock's final season in Detroit. Perhaps Sullivan and staff can get the guy who played under Babcock back. I think I could live with that.
longtimefan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,151
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:33 pm

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Jim on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:14 pm

A vast majority of Detroit fan posts are very happy about this trade. VERY happy.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Steve Dave on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:28 pm

Jim wrote:A vast majority of Detroit fan posts are very happy about this trade. VERY happy.

Detroit fans are idiots.
Steve Dave
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,513
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:09 am

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby pens_CT on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:33 pm

Steve Dave wrote:
Jim wrote:A vast majority of Detroit fan posts are very happy about this trade. VERY happy.

Detroit fans are idiots.


Brief, but very factual response !
pens_CT
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,039
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Daniel on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:12 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:
Jim wrote:A vast majority of Detroit fan posts are very happy about this trade. VERY happy.

Detroit fans are idiots.


Brief, but very factual response !


Thing is, weren't Edmonton fans happy about the Schultz trade? Toronto fans happy about the Kessel trade? Somehow a lot of players match better with the Pens than with their previous team.
Daniel
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,439
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:10 pm
Location: Fort Worth

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Owchar76 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:16 pm

Jim wrote:A vast majority of Detroit fan posts are very happy about this trade. VERY happy.


A vast majority of message board fans? HF?

Meh, it happens all the time. Dallas fans were probably happy to rid themselves of Niskanen. Oilers fans were definitely happy to get rid of Schultz. Many Pens fans were happy to get rid of Neal, and he's still been good since the trade. There is obviously something that GMJR and the rest of the staff saw in Sheahan to be targeting him this long. There are no guarantees here at all, but the guy shot something like 1% last year. About the only guarantee you'll get is that he'll regress back to the norm. He fits this team better than Wilson does, only because of his ability to play centre.
Owchar76
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:03 pm

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby ville5 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:33 pm

College teammate of Rust and Cole.
ville5
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,219
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:17 pm
Location: getting body slammed by kelly kelly

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Puck-Lurker on Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:32 am

Daniel wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:
Jim wrote:A vast majority of Detroit fan posts are very happy about this trade. VERY happy.

Detroit fans are idiots.


Brief, but very factual response !


Thing is, weren't Edmonton fans happy about the Schultz trade? Toronto fans happy about the Kessel trade? Somehow a lot of players match better with the Pens than with their previous team.

And yet for all this.. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I think we can expect Sheahan to start playing better than he did. But by how much.. time can only tell.

As I recall.. Hawks fans were happy they got rid of Daley.

One man's junk is another man's treasure. Wilson was an okay player, but he's 3-4LW. We have a surplus of wingers even with him gone. His cheap contract was his main asset, as he lived in scratch land. The only potential down side is RS contract. We use 1.6M extra cap space and get a center that was pegged as a good future 3C. Centers will cost, so the deal is fine.

How this will work on ice is anyone's guess. Guy needs to start eating minutes as C again
Puck-Lurker
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,825
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:49 am
Location: We will not trade Sprong!

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby no name on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:38 am

Allowing us to shift McKegg and Sheahan for the time being to see who fits where. McKegg is making a case for him to remain as a 3rd liner. Hopefully that competition lifts Sheahan up a knotch to try and grab the 3rd line position.

Can Sheahan play PK?
no name
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,781
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:19 pm

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Jim on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:02 am

Daniel wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Steve Dave wrote:
Jim wrote:A vast majority of Detroit fan posts are very happy about this trade. VERY happy.

Detroit fans are idiots.


Brief, but very factual response !


Thing is, weren't Edmonton fans happy about the Schultz trade? Toronto fans happy about the Kessel trade? Somehow a lot of players match better with the Pens than with their previous team.


It took a good while for a number of Pens fans to come around on Kessel, just to be fair. Frankly, he still gets a good amount of grief.

We were pretty happy to get rid of Scuderi and they were right. People were upset that Bennett left and they were wrong. I guess it goes all ways.
Last edited by Jim on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Sheahan Traded to the Penguins

Postby Jim on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:06 am

Puck-Lurker wrote:How this will work on ice is anyone's guess. Guy needs to start eating minutes as C again


This is true. Can he handle the minutes and the faceoffs. He needs to handle near 2.5x what he did last year.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,633
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Crashguy66, FLPensFan, jeffshly and 14 guests


e-mail